Bad tool buying decisions

[Mitchell Andrus]

We about to turn the page on the calendar again, and some of us have a little Christmas money to spend. Without giving product brand names (to keep the conversation polite), what have your WORST tool buying decisions been?

I wish I had all of the money spent on tools that were bought "for now".

My list of tools that were too: small, underpowered, cheap, wrong for the job, impulse buys, etc.:

Bench-top mortiser - replaced it with closed base, floor model.
Radial Arm Saw - replaced it with 5hp cab saw and 12" miter saw.
1.5 hp DC - replaced it with 3 hp dual canister.
3 hp canister DC - soon to be replaced by a 5hp cyclone. (see above)
16 x 32 single drum sander - replaced with 2 x 25" 5hp drum sander.
Hobby budget pocket hole - replaced with semi auto benchtop unit.
Benchtop planer - replaced with 15" 502 pound behemoth.
Scroll saw - gathering dust.
Two biscuit cutters - gathering dust.
3 axis router machine clone, green in color - gathering dust.
2 photo flood lights - replaced with 2 strobe units.

I guess I've learned that buying on the cheap gets me tools I'm likely to grow out of.

[Jim Becker]

Like many folks...the initial purchases of "retail name brand" bench top type tools, particularly a table saw, was the start of my often using the phrase, "The most expensive tools are the ones you have to replace early and often."

There are also a few times that I should have thought about things a little longer. I still got a good tool, but might have been happier with a different format. The combo sander in my shop is an example of that. I like it and use it, but in retrospect, it should have been an edge sander...I've only used the disk once and that was merely to avoid moving the machine to get to the belt. My second lathe is another example. A fine machine. (OneWay 1018) But I quickly outgrew it's capacities. I should have gone right to the "big" machine like I now own that can do the type of work I enjoy. I don't regret those purchased like the first catagory mentioned above, but in retrospect, could have made better decisions.

Tool buying for me at this point is a "buy the best I can afford, even if it requires saving for awhile to accomplish it". In that way, if it turns out to be something I find myself not using, I can get a lot more value out of it during the transfer to someone else who has a need for it.

[glenn bradley]

I use my biscuit joiner far less than expected although it is top of the line so, when I do use it, it works perfectly. I cannot say these are regrets as these tools were bought 'just to see' if I would like this WWing thing or not. Had I known, I would have bought:

- SCMS instead of CMS
- 8" jounter instead of 6"
- Floor standing DP instead of bench model
- Full shop DC istead of single machine unit
- T-8 lighting fixtures instead of T-12
- Good ROS instead of a $30 one that is just OK

Thanks mostly to the folks here at SMC I have not really bought anything of substantial cost that I would steer folks away from . . . ah small favors ;-)

Things I did right thanks to all you folks:

- a real jigsaw
- a real router for the RT
- Good sharpening equipment
- Good cutters in general
- quality finishes
- other misc. quality tools as opposed to those bought early on as mentioned above

Thanks to all.

[Bob Childress]

Ah . . . we all have our tales of woe no doubt. :o


Mine include:

Cheap single-axis laser level - gathering dust
Finish sander with poor DC - gathering dust (is that a pun?)
Name brand cheap CS - burned out and canned
Name brand cheap jigsaw - gave it away
Cheap band clamp - canned
Cheap bar clamps - gathering dust
Bench top DP instead of floor-standing


Not so many lately, however, thanks to this forum. ;)

[Hans Braul]

Mitchell,

Interesting list. No doubt you are much happier with the new stuff than you were with the old. You are lucky enough to be able to afford the new stuff. Brings to mind a humbling story from my distant past though...

As a young keener, I knew there was no sense in messing around - just bit the bullet and buy the best. Hence my purchase of a General 350 tablesaw, and a few other high-end tools without ever really having built anything. In short, I talked a good game, but had yet to produce a whole lot. Based on a log of reading and thinking, was feeling pretty good about my knowledge of woodworking.

Then I went to visit my great-uncle. He was a cabinet maker by trade, trained in Germany. He had one leg (lost one in the war, fighting for the bad guys), and was frugal beyond what any of us can even imagine. He was convinced the next great depression was around the corner. Every tool in his shop was the crappiest, cheapest thing you could buy. I mean, cheap, cheap, cheap. I'm sure I spent twice as much on my tablesaw as he spent on his entire shop.

Now the humbling part... He produced the most exquisite furniture, worthy of posting in FWW or any other woodworking mag. His specialty was grandfather clocks, one of which sits at my parents' house today. Every detail was perfect. Nothing left to chance. The way he did this was he really THOUGHT about what he was doing. When a machine had limitations he built a jig to compensate. Keep in mind he only had one leg, so all these things had to accommodate those limitations as well. He was truly inspirational.

I don't begrudge anybody nice tools, and I am certainly eying lots of nice upgrades, but every time I buy something I ask myself if it will really make better stuff, or is it just another gadget?

Thanks for the post.

Hans

[Al Willits]

Too new to woodworking to have much of a list there, I'm sure almost anything I've bought there was a better model, but this is a hobby for me, not my living, so some concessions needed to be made.

Not a bad thing, but my 14" Delta BS could use a bit more power if I had to list something.

Other tools would be,
110 volt wire feed
Air powered DA that listed for $49 on sale for $19....shoulda know...
30 pounds of surplus welding rod that "should" work
cheap drill sharpening elect tool
non Craftsman socket set for air tools
Garage sale automotive paint

Probably a ton more, but that's a start.

Al

[Mitchell Andrus]

Hans, my grandmother, 93, is also from the 'old country'. Yep, frugal.

I consider safety, productivity and long term value now that I'm older and wiser. I cringe when I think of the stuff I did with the radial arm saw. I run a production shop and if your great uncle did, he'd see the value of having production tools in a modern shop. In my opinion, expensive tools put to good use are cheaper to own in the long run.

A man with a good sharp pocket knife can do things another with a room full of power tools can't.

[Mike Seals]

I have but one tool that I regret buying, an airsaw, el cheapo. I don't regret buying it so much as it not working. The money spent was less than a 12 pack of my favorite beer. But I wished it worked better.

I'm with Hans on this. I think some tools will do a better job than others, but I think knowing what how well your tool works is the key. I used to build street rods, most of the tools needed to work these cars are rather expensive. I learned to make do with what I have.

It's the same with the wood tools, understanding their limitations and working from there.

[JayStPeter]

I think most of my decisions were reasonable "at the time". When I started I never pictured myself owning the shop I have now. Even though I have upgraded pretty much everything, each got me further along and taught me what I wanted in a replacement.

However, there are some decisions that in retrospect were terrible.

First, my drillpress. I was convinced by online and locals that a used old Delta would be much better than any new imported junk. Wrong. Lesson learned: brand names don't make a tool good.

Most of the other regrets are buying cheap bits/blades so that I would have profiles and capabilities. I had some cheap router bits ruin some parts and cheap blades produce so much ply tearout that a cabinet I was making for the bathroom became a shop cabinet.
I just repeated this lesson with some hollow chisel mortiser chisels. I bought some on closeout from Highland at $19 for a 4 piece set. I set about sharpening them according to the instructions in PWW. It took me 6 sheets of 320 grit and nearly 2 hours to get the sides of the chisels reasonable. Then I inserted them into my mortiser to find that the bits were too short to reach the chuck. Arrrghhh, the next set will be significantly more expensive from LV.

[lou sansone]

anything with the name ROYBI on it.
lou

[Lee DeRaud]

I wish I had all of the money spent on tools that were bought "for now".OTOH, a lot of stuff got built with "for now" tools that never would have seen the light of day if I'd waited until I could afford the "good stuff".

[Mitchell Andrus]

Jay,

Fishe, or Fisch(?) brand is the only one that I'll put in my mortiser, a Powermatic floor model. The bits may not last a whole lot longer than the cheap ones (white oak), but they cut better, take a better edge, and the hollow part is well tuned up right from the box. Wood workers Supply sells them and replacement bits too, saving the cost of buying a set because of a broken bit. You get what you pay for, I've got a bunch of cheapies in the cabinet just as spares.

[Mitchell Andrus]

Yea, been there, but that's why it took five years to buy my $25,000.00 laser. I knew a smaller model would, like so many other tools, be a way too exspensive 'for now' tool.

Don't get me started on cheap wrenches!!!

[Scott Vigder]

WORST tool buying decisions been?


My list of tools that were too: small, underpowered, cheap, wrong for the job, impulse buys, etc.:


Radial Arm Saw - replaced it with 5hp cab saw and 12" miter saw.
1.5 hp DC - replaced it with 3 hp dual canister.
3 hp canister DC - soon to be replaced by a 5hp cyclone. (see above)
16 x 32 single drum sander - replaced with 2 x 25" 5hp drum sander.
Benchtop planer - replaced with 15" 502 pound behemoth.

Wow, you must have gone from making hanging folder holders (boxes) to victorian chairs and mission style sofas!

[Mitchell Andrus]

Dig around here, you'll find my website.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

the short barrel Taurus 9.
Can't run hollow points through it.

[Mitchell Andrus]

So... is the tool in question the Taurus 9, or the hollow points?

[Laurie Brown]

Two biscuit cutters - gathering dust.


If you'd like to get rid of one, I'll give it a good home. ;)

[Joe Dusel (Vista, CA)]

My worst woodworking tool purchase was a 5-in-one multi-function do-it-all tool - with a ton of accessories. Jack of all trades, master of none. Unfortunately I bought into this before I knew anything about working wood and wasted thousands.

Joe

[Per Swenson]

Real simple rule of thumb.

If it is marketed towards Harry the Homeowner, run.


Per

[Dick Rowe]

I solved my poor tool buying problems when I recently 'inherited' a new SIL.

I 'graciously' donate my jun... ummm, I mean poor purchasing decisions to the SIL. He is happy since he has nothing and doesn't know any better, SWMBO and my daughter are happy that I am bonding with the new SIL, and I am happy 'cause I get to fix all my purchasing mistakes while looking like a hero to the rest of the family.

It's a win-win-win situation. Doesn't get much better than that. :D

[Michael Gibbons]

My only BAD decision(if you want to call it that) is not knowing the future and buying early. For instance, my drill press. If I would have known that the company was coming out with an all together new model ,I would have waited and spent the extra 300 bucks for the newer model. Also I've bought smaller capacity machines than I should of like the 10" miter saw intead of the 12", 6" jointer instead of the 8". I research alot then make my choice.

[Keith Barkhau]

I've made quite a few dumb woodworking purchases especially when I was first getting started (I've replaced virtually every tool I originally purchased) but I think far and away my worst decision was a set of $20 bench planes--you know the ones, with the wavy soles and pre-rusted irons. As you can imagine they did not work well for me and as a newbie I lacked the wisdom to know they were junk and the skill and knowledge to be able to tune them to even begin to work. After a few frustrating hours I swore off handplanes and decided if it couldn't be made with power tools it wasn't worth making. It was nearly 10 years before a friend put a well tuned old Stanley and a couple of LN's in my hands and I realized what I'd missed. As my hand skills have improved the quality of my finished work has improved ten fold.

Still got a way to go though....

[Paul Libby]

A Shopsmith MK5. I thought it would be the answer for a portable wood shop....I was working at a profession that required moving every 3 to 5 years then. For those of you that have not had the disapointment of using one. They do nothing well. The flex in the table makes drilling a pluumb hold inpossible (except in soft wood, with a very sharp bit). The table is too small for any serious saw work, etc, etc. It did make a fairly good lathe though. Sold to finance a Cabinet saw, drill press and planer.

Second was a 9" DeWalt radial arm saw, 1958 vintage in excellent condition. Not too handy or accurate for anything related to furniture making. Sold it at a profit, however.

The rest of my purchases have been satisfactory, even cheap power hand tools worked well, they didn't last long, but they got the job done.

[George Summers]

I have made some purchases which, when looking back 5-8 years, were not a tool that I could pass on to my heirs. But they worked at the time and still work, just not as well as a tool costing twice the price. But they fit my budget.

The one thing I feel I am reading (between the lines) from this thread is that a home hobbiest is becoming more and more of an outsider on SMC. When the majority of posters talk of machines that I can only dream about and machines that I see as large speciality cabinet shop equipment, then I feel that the forum has moved on past the home hobbiest. This is really only a confirmation of the feeling I have started developing over the last 6-12 months. My <$400 bandsaw, <$400 jointer, <$700 tablesaw, <$200 lathe, <$200 drill press, homemade router table, home made bench, free C'man shaper, free C'man belt/disc sander (both of the last two from someone who was getting out of woodworking), <$200 CMS all serve me well as a hobbiest. But they don't put me in the "Tool League" with even the 'bad' purchases listed here.

George

[Matt Meiser]

For me, bad decisions were ones where I bought a bigger tool that I didn't need but wanted. Very quickly I filled my large shop up and didn't have room to do anything else. In some cases I bought a dedicated tool (like a mortiser) that I didn't use much and most of whose functionality could be done with a jig and router.

[Don Bullock]

Years ago I bought a router from a particular company that I thought at the time made good tools. In those days my budget for tools was much worse than it is today. The router turned out to be totally plastic, including the housing around the bit. That housing broke the second time I used the router and I've never bought another tool from that company.

The more I think about it, that incident was one of the reasons I got out of woodworking. I had such ambitious ideas but I couldn't find a way to afford the tools I needed to accomplish them.

[Ron Jones near Indy]

About 5 years ago the local K Mart had a B&D belt sander on clearance for $21. I looked but didn't buy. A couple of weeks later, it was marked down to $16. Too good of a deal to pass on I thought. The first time I used it, I determined it was way over priced at $16.:o I still have it to remind me that cheaper usually isn't better.:)

[Tom Hamilton]

OK, I confess. It was a cordless drill at the local traveling tool show. You know, the one that shows up twice a year at the VFW or some other place and has boat loads (pun intended) of cheap tools and gadgets. Sort like a down scale Harbor Freight in a 18 wheeler.

But I digress. The drill had a charger, one battery, advertised at 14.4 V, and under $10 bucks. It lasted maybe 20 minutes. What was I thinking.

Tom, in Houston, resolved to buy quality in 07

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I have made some purchases which, when looking back 5-8 years, were not a tool that I could pass on to my heirs. But they worked at the time and still work, just not as well as a tool costing twice the price. But they fit my budget.

The one thing I feel I am reading (between the lines) from this thread is that a home hobbiest is becoming more and more of an outsider on SMC. When the majority of posters talk of machines that I can only dream about and machines that I see as large speciality cabinet shop equipment, then I feel that the forum has moved on past the home hobbiest. This is really only a confirmation of the feeling I have started developing over the last 6-12 months. My <$400 bandsaw, <$400 jointer, <$700 tablesaw, <$200 lathe, <$200 drill press, homemade router table, home made bench, free C'man shaper, free C'man belt/disc sander (both of the last two from someone who was getting out of woodworking), <$200 CMS all serve me well as a hobbiest. But they don't put me in the "Tool League" with even the 'bad' purchases listed here.

George

George......You aren't in a minority here. The majority of Creekers are hobbiests and most are NOT independently wealthy. Most operate on a budget. I hope to be in a position this fall to buy my first bandsaw, my first dust collections sytem.....BUY my first lathe (the first was dropped on me here by Creekers), buy an 8" jointer to replace the 6" table top model I have. Why....I'm preparing for retirement within 3 years. I know from experience 2 things......It's the skill of the woodworker using the tool that makes things well.....2ndly....I need those tools to have a complete woodworking shop and build and turn the things I want to build. I've had cheap tools burn out in the middle of a project. I prefer to save and buy heavier duty tools that will get the job done, have the cabilities that exceed what the cheaper ones do and will last my life time. I'm not a tool snob but in the end I think it's cheaper to buy a good tool rather than constantly be replacing a cheap tool. That being said....I still won't buy the most expensive because I can't justify the additional expense. I have a budget.

[Jim Becker]

George, Ken speaks true. Everyone, no matter what level of tools and shops they have has to find the way to do what they love that best suits their situation and desires. We save over time for tools we want to own and find other ways to accomplish what we want to do in the mean time. And, truth be told, woodworking is drawing a lot of younger folks these days who work hard in whatever industry they are in...as a stress reliever and avocation...and they do have disposable income.

The key to tool buying...very well illustrated by this thread...isn't necessarily buying the most expensive tools, but making intelligent decisions and buying the best quality one can afford. I said it in an earlier post to this thread (as well as a million other times over the past 6-7 years...), "The most expensive tool is the one you need to replace early and often."

So don't be put off because someone uses Brand X or has Brand Y in their shop...or because we have a mix of pros and very accomplished hobbyists as a small part of the SMC community. I'm personally thankful for all of those people 'cause I learn a lot from them every day I visit. And believe it or not, I'm very sure that most of them learn a lot from even raw newbies...the questions make you think and sometimes change your perspective!

[Austin Grote]

Inca Radial Arm Saw...

[Ted Miller]

Han's, Great story, I was taught carpentry by a man who grew up in the depression and he showed me how to set and sharpen teeth on my old Skill saw blades when I was a kid and I always thought why not just buy new blades, he was a real craftsman with tools I would throw away today.

George, The tools you own are used by you and only you, it doesn't matter what others have and how much they spend, as long as they get the job done to your expectations then that is all that matters. I buy what I can afford and I move up in equipment as I need to perform at my skill level. I never look at what tools someone ownes to see what kind of wood worker they are, I like to see what they produce, nothing means more than craftmanship...

[Jeff Heil]

For me the mistakes have been the purchases I didn't think through and research. Often I found impulse buys are collecting dust after the novelty wears off. My problem is becoming a need to use my workshop space efficently. If It won't make me more space efficent and productive and fit, I won't buy it. My dad has benefited from some of my earlier and lesser quality purchases as he isn't as demanding as I am of his tools. I have learned the hard way, you do get what you pay for. I only buy tools now that I think will outlast me, and avoid plastic parts on power tools.
my 2cents. :)

[Ted Miller]

Jeff, That is one of the biggest things that bugs me about power tools today, PLASTIC, it seems that its always used on the pieces of the tool that needs adjusting the most and will most likely break or wear very fast. I remember in the 70s you rarely saw any tools with plastic...

[Dave Malen]

This was my worst decision. I thought it would be good to do molding. - but the stick on sand paper was always falling off . Sometimes that led to a black mark on the wood:( . Finally sold it on E bay for a considerable loss. Good riddance!

Dave

[Rick de Roque]

Worst was a cheap 18 Volt cordless drill. Lasted a week. Wasted the $18.

I've upgraded from the 6" jointer, lunch box planer, and the 14" bandsaw but I don't look at them as mistakes because at the time I had no idea what kind of projects I would end up enjoy building and as time went on I upgraded and sold the smaller tools for 75% of purchase price so I don't think of them as mistakes but more of growing into the hobby.

Rick

[Jack Dickey]

I've always tried to wait and buy the best I could afford .. There are a few errors I made along the way ..
For years my "woodwerking" was towards the house and barn , construction type werk ..
Only recently in the last few years have I jumped into trying my hand at furniture and the like .. I enjoy both , but seems that furniture and the like needs a different approach in the use of the tools , some for me werk well in construction , and not so well in the furniture ..
Live and learn ..
I could care less what brand you use , there's some tools I want , but will never be able to afford , I'm sure ..
You can pull off some great werk without the high end tools , you just have to werk around the limitations ..

[Travis Porter]

The infamous Porter Cable detail sander. I still have it, it still sits in its box. I have found the little rubber sanding shapes you use by hand do a better job than it does.

[John Schreiber]

It's only with hindsight that we know which decisions will be bad ones. If we knew in advance where our woodworking would be going, we could pick the tools which would fit us when we get there. We would also know which purchases are bargains and which are rip offs.

For me every purchase is a gamble that I will have enough time to use the tool. Money is tight and we've just decided to put our oldest to private college . . . it definitely looks like I will be sticking with smaller projects for a while.

I'm glad I can live vicariously through some of the pros and amateurs who have the time and money to make the projects I dream of.

[Paul Simmel]

A Ryobi TS 12 years ago (less than a year motor blew.) 14” BS. Haven’t had a TS in my shop since… but the new shop will have one specifically for sheeting goods that’s all.

>>> The one thing I feel I am reading (between the lines) from this thread is that a home hobbiest is becoming more and more of an outsider on SMC. When the majority of posters talk of machines that I can only dream about and machines that I see as large speciality cabinet shop equipment, then I feel that the forum has moved on past the home hobbiest. This is really only a confirmation of the feeling I have started developing over the last 6-12 months. My <$400 bandsaw, <$400 jointer, <$700 tablesaw, <$200 lathe, <$200 drill press, homemade router table, home made bench, free C'man shaper, free C'man belt/disc sander (both of the last two from someone who was getting out of woodworking), <$200 CMS all serve me well as a hobbiest. But they don't put me in the "Tool League" with even the 'bad' purchases listed here.

George,

There is a lot you can learn from pros, and if I were you I’d be happy they post here and not take offense.

After 30 years of being self employed… carpentry, finish carpentry… some 8 or so years ago I invested in some machinery for the first time. I had aspirations for finer work, better paying jobs. So I got the following:

BS
8” jointer
Shaper
15” planer
2hp DC
(No TS)
(Always had routers)

Prior to these purchases, I did build decent furniture. I could do a few profiles with a router, styles and rails, etc. But I was severely limited insofar as what my skills could have otherwise dictated.

The BS has been replaced with a larger one. But all the above machinery remains… all Import Grizzly… and I love my machines!

BS used strictly for ripping/slicing/dicing lumber.

Jointer used strictly for siding/flattening/squaring.

Planer used strictly for sizing sticks off the jointer.

Shaper… supped-up router table. (My shaper is only a 1.5 hp machine, but I love it just the same and have a rolling tool cabinet full of ¾” spindle cutters)

The above sufficed me for years.

Now… times have changed. I’m building a new house. I’m doing all interior millwork in-house (let alone new furniture). We love Pine and Dug Fur, so all 6”crown, 7” base and cap, 5” Craftsman casings/headers, etc., out of construction grade lumber… machinery an absolute requirement for my application… get me?

New machines coming to the shop are a TS (here but unpacked) and a Shop Fox moulder (in transit). As much as I hate it, I will need a TS for sheeting goods for kitchen cabinetry. The moulder, however, I am excited about because this is the machine to use for larger profiled crown/casings.

So, George…

My machinery is no gloat but essential to my process. I’m building furniture no problem with what I have… scraping/sanding… no drum/belt sanding machines… all by hand. I have the bare essentials with no complaints, dude.

So George, here’s the deal…

Pros are pros because they are out there in the real world dealing with consumers.

Pros develop techniques based on the bottom line… and if we are lucky enough to read a pros’, ‘This is a better way to do it’, post, then if in fact they have a particular machine that does it better, we all benefit.

[George Summers]

I realize that I may have been a small bit over-zealous in my original statement. I do appreciate the fact that there are 'pros' and advanced hobbiests who post here. I may just be a little 'sensitive' to some comments that I have seen here though. From the general tenor of posts over the past 6-12 months, there seems to be a trend of posts and responses that if you don't have the biggest and best then shame on you. Posts about 15" 500# planers being better than the lunchbox planers (I know they are better but you don't have to imply that you can't work with a lunchbox), one recent reply to a comment of mine (not even a question) that if you don't buy the $100-$150 version, then you might as well not buy one at all, implications (on the turning forum) that you can't turn anything decent on a 'cheap' lathe (true, I can't turn out intricate hollow forms, but I can turn out items that are acceptable to me, and to customers), even in this thread - Anything Ryobi is Bad - hey, some of us can only afford a particular tool in the Ryobi price range, and if I only use it a dozen times a year, then it works for me.

As I said, just the general tenor of more and more posts and responses seem to be more directed to, and by, the pros and advanced woodworkers than to the home hobbiest. I will continue to lurk and learn, but I need to learn to use what I can afford and would like to be able to contribute ocassionally without having (in my mind's eye) to apologize for the quality level of my tools.

George

[James Carmichael]

I have to second some of George's observations. When I see the tools some of you guys use and recommend, I figure you must be independently wealthy, or making your living with them. I'd love to buy an MM16, but this is a hobby, and $2500 is a whole lot more than I can justify spending.

I make do with a Ridgid 14" bandsaw, 6" jointer, and lunchbox planer. Had HD not closed out the grey tools for 60% off a couple years back, I would not own these.

To me, the worst tool-buying decision isn't necessarily going cheap, it's spending more than you can afford.

[glenn bradley]

I have to disagree (with the best intentions). There are definitely folks on here who regularly use tools I will never own. I was however, totally supported when I bought my Craftsman hybrid which is not a professional saw. Many here have the Rigid TS and do well and are happy with it. I'll probably never own a Festool. I don't make money at this hobby and can't justify the cost.

I have always felt helped and supported when asking for better ways to use my less than premium tools. I have also been saved from spending $200 on a piece of junk when $400 will buy a tool I'll have for life. If I add up the things I wouldn't have done purchase-wise had I found this forum sooner, I could afford what I really should have got in the first place.

With all that said I do relate to the cost of the hobby and for me, it is just a hobby, and I try to target things I can do and can afford. That doesn't keep me from dreaming of things I want and things I hope to someday be able to do. Sorry for the long-winded blah, blah. ;-)

[Geoff Barry]

Well, I don't want to get into a contest over who is the most amateurish woodworker here :) , but even as a rank beginner, I don't want to be too sensitive over comments from pros and semi-pros. After all, I learn more from those folks than I do from others like me, though it can be comforting to know that I am not the only one screwing things up. As for tools, I have a thick skin, and I take people's comments for what they are. Lou Sansone builds repro 18th century hardwood furniture, and I imagine most, is not all, Ryobi tools would be a waste of his time. Having seen shots of his shop, I'd love to swap tools, but then I'd need his shop, too :D .

I have to work outside (well, there is a roof, just no walls) in the snows of Colorado, so an aluminum bt3100 fit both the budget and the locale. And while I hestitate to call a DW735 "portable", my requirements for drill presses and planers are things I can carry up from the basement and through the house to the patio without involving ropes, dollies, or other people, which rules out anything over about 100-120 lbs. (I do have a 6" jointer that nearly killed me getting it in and out of the car, but I got it off craig's list, so my investment was minimal. However, if I spent a grand on a cabinet saw, I would cry at the sight of it sitting under a pile of snow, even under a tarp.) In the same vein, given the use I make of it, a ryobi 18v cordless drill has served me well for over two years. But, I'm not a professional who uses it every day.

The only tools I regret buying (to get back on topic):
- a $30 Skil jigsaw (picked up a Dewalt later - world of difference)
- a Skil benchtop saw (scary in use -- I got it reconditioned for $100, but given I only paid $250 for the BT3100, should have just saved my money)
- a Jepson 14 amp router. (Only because it was crude, awkward, and seriously put me off routing for a bit until I got a real (read: accurate and stable) router. OTOH, the Jepson has a made a decent table router. Takes a little time to set up, but that thing could churn through concrete.)

[Keith Weber]

Waste of money because it was just crap:

- Crapsman Cordless Ratchet
- Dust Extraction kit for my otherwise awesome Bosch Router
- Cheap drill bits
- Anything from HF

Bought but never used:

- Biscuit Joiner
- 22" long hand plane (caught up in an eBay moment)
- HVLP Spray Gun (kinda need a spray booth first)
- Dado Blade (Too easy for me to pop a straight bit into the router table.)
- Template guide set for my router (could never find the right bit/template combo to do what I wanted.)

Outgrew WAY to quickly (but still not replaced):

- 6" jointer
- lunch box planer

Wished I hadn't bought:

- Fixed caster pairs to go with swivel caster pairs. (Too hard to move stuff around -- I prefer having all 4 wheels swivel.)

[Mike Buelow]

OK, I confess. It was a cordless drill at the local traveling tool show. You know, the one that shows up twice a year at the VFW or some other place and has boat loads (pun intended) of cheap tools and gadgets. Sort like a down scale Harbor Freight in a 18 wheeler.

But I digress. The drill had a charger, one battery, advertised at 14.4 V, and under $10 bucks. It lasted maybe 20 minutes. What was I thinking.


I bought a HF 18V right angle drill for about $30. Whoops. Oh well, I have used it for a few tight spaces and it will pay for itself, even if I have to use it three times a year for 30 years.

On a similar note, I still actively use my
$30 skil saw
$30 B&D multi sander
$30 B&D handheld jig saw
$30 B&D corded drill (on second chuck)
$80 Ryobi compound Mitre saw

that were purchased when I was in college (and broke) and all do a good enough job for me. BTW, they were all back when B&D was green not orange. I don't regret "expensing" cheap, simple tools in my early 20s, and upgrading with "capital investments" later in life.

[Brian Elfert]

The one thing I feel I am reading (between the lines) from this thread is that a home hobbiest is becoming more and more of an outsider on SMC. When the majority of posters talk of machines that I can only dream about and machines that I see as large speciality cabinet shop equipment, then I feel that the forum has moved on past the home hobbiest. This is really only a confirmation of the feeling I have started

I am selling my house to find another with space for a decent shop. I looked at a house owned by a cabinet maker with a huge outbuilding. He is selling the house and shop to leave the cabinet making business to work a regular job.

The fanciest big power tool this guy had was an OLD Delta shaper with a missing door on front. He had two table saws that were Craftsman type quality. The newest tool with a CMS. I don't recall if he had a jointer or a planer. He was able to make some really nice cabinets with low end tools.

On an side note, the guy had no dust collection and the dust was 6 inches deep in spots. I can't imagine his lungs!

Brian Elfert

[thomas prevost]

Do most of us make poor choices, I think not. What may be a undesirable tool now may have been the perfect tool for the job when we bought it.

Craftsman, Ryobi, Skill, and Rigid are tools that are designed for the DYI where they will see limited use. When we are young we buy these tools to "fix up the old place" and once done, do repairs as necessary. WE mature and find ourselves building tables and cabinets for the children, then move up the system to kitchen cabinets and furniture for the living room. As we mature here, the choice of tools changes to tools with better precision and accessories.

Although the $30 C 'man circular saw was the right choice in my twenties for 2X4 and 1/2" plywood, it will not do the job of cutting 2"maple or white oak that I do now.

Thus, did we make a bad choice at the time or did our needs change? I feel for the most part, the latter. Not to say I haven't made some dumb mistakes such as buying clamps from the two H companies.

[Lars Thomas]

I've read every post in this thread . . . I like James' quote best. Great thread.



To me, the worst tool-buying decision isn't necessarily going cheap, it's spending more than you can afford.

[Rick Schubert]

Let's all be grateful for whatever we have.

Rick

[J D Thomas]

My biggest mistake was my first tablesaw, if you could call it that. It was a Ryobi BT3000, which is technically a benchtop saw IMO. But I was just getting into WWing and didn't know squat. That saw is the single, biggest, piece of crap known to mankind. That insane sliding table mechanism NEVER stayed aligned, no miter slot, and underpowered for days. I burned out one motor and it cost me nearly $200 to replace. I did make quite a few projects while using it and I learned a good deal in the process, so it wasn't a total lost cause. But I finally joined the big league and bought a Unisaw after about 2 1/2 years of struggling with it.

I gave that POC to my brother. It's collecting dust in HIS garage now.

[Lee DeRaud]

...joined the big league and bought a Unisaw...I think you just made George's point for him.

[JayStPeter]

To me, the worst tool-buying decision isn't necessarily going cheap, it's spending more than you can afford.

Some of my biggest mistakes in this hobby have been spending too much on tools and having to make due with lower quality materials for the project at hand (or even having to put off a project until I had materials cash).

[Larry Fox]

For me, my worst was a Japanese flush-cut saw. It was a good one too which leads me to believe that it is my technique and not the saw - doesn't mean I have to like it though. Thing has no set on either side and is very flimsy and hard to control.

[Dave Lehnert]

Some of my biggest mistakes in this hobby have been spending too much on tools and having to make due with lower quality materials for the project at hand (or even having to put off a project until I had materials cash).

One of my biggest mistakes was buying a Milwaukee saws-all for $200.00. For the two times I have used it in 10 years I could have gotten by with a $20.00 Harbor freight. I have used one and YES! It is junk compared to the Milwaukee but would have done the jobs I needed to do.

[James Carmichael]

One of my biggest mistakes was buying a Milwaukee saws-all for $200.00. For the two times I have used it in 10 years I could have gotten by with a $20.00 Harbor freight. I have used one and YES! It is junk compared to the Milwaukee but would have done the jobs I needed to do.

I'll second that. Actually, I got started on the whole tool slippery slope when I needed a 1/2" drill to mix tile mortar. I eventually convinced myself I needed a Dewalt 4-piece 18v combo (close to $400 at the time). A $20 HF drill would've done the job (BTW, my Harbor Freight 3/4" SDS rotary hammery was one of the best, awesome demolition tool for $30).

Someone else mentioned a 22" jointer plane. That was another one of my bads, but for the opposite reason. Tuning a 90-year-old mass of rust and making those fluffy shavings is way addicting.

[Tyler Howell]

My worst woodworking tool purchase was a 5-in-one multi-function do-it-all tool - with a ton of accessories. Jack of all trades, master of none. Unfortunately I bought into this before I knew anything about working wood and wasted thousands.

Joe
Does it start with Roto something.
My number one:o

[J D Thomas]

My experience with the Ryobi saw was just what I said it was. If someone else has good luck with any tool, fine. I base my opinions on my experience. Nothing more. Nothing less.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

So... is the tool in question the Taurus 9, or the hollow points?

Hmmmm Good question. The thing never jams when I use bullnose.

I guess I'd have to say it was the weapon because all my weapons are anti-personell.

[Ernie Hobbs]

The worst tool ever- cheap $75 lathe from Harbor Freight. I finally replaced it with an older Delta/Rockwell lathe (Chrismas present from Dad). What a difference!

[Billy Chambless]

The key to tool buying...very well illustrated by this thread...isn't necessarily buying the most expensive tools, but making intelligent decisions and buying the best quality one can afford. I said it in an earlier post to this thread (as well as a million other times over the past 6-7 years...), "The most expensive tool is the one you need to replace early and often."


So many opinions bouncing around, it's hard to decide where to jump in. ;) But yeah, what Jim said. Sometimes determining "the best quality one can afford" is tricky, because there are often dozens of variables to deal with. Sometimes "afford" comes down to opportunity cost. If I have a thousand bucks and buy a thousand dollar bandsaw, now I can't buy wood! On the other hand, if I buy the $200 BS from the BORG, it might perform so badly as to ruin all the wood I buy, so...


At the end of the day, we each have to make our own value judgements, and it's probably best for the blood pressure not to worry too much about what the other kids are doing.

[Jim Becker]

To me, the worst tool-buying decision isn't necessarily going cheap, it's spending more than you can afford.
I don't disagree with this and it's not in conflict with my own earlier statements, either. There is a difference between "cheap" and "affordable" in my book for the simple reason that one can save a little longer to purchase something with the quality that will last. That doesn't necessarily mean top-end/pro/expensive...it means thoughtful purchasing after doing one's homework. And SMC (as well as other online and off-line interactions) can be helpful in that pursuit because you can get real-world usage reports.

[Gary Keedwell]

I know I'm going to get some flak from this, but my worst buying decision was buying a Festool cordless drill, just for the centrotec. Let me explain: For years my pet peeve has been drills with the hex for a shaft that runs-out (wobbles) when you use the quick changers.
Well, I thought I would kill 2 birds with one stone. I would get the centrotec and eliminate the run-out and also get a quality drill with neat chucks.
I was ecstatic when I tried the hex bits that I bought extra with my order. No run-out that I could see with my naked eyes. Then I tried some of my own bits that I had collected over the years. They DIDN't FIT. I was peeved to say the least.
I cannot look at that drill without thinking about the Centrotec that only fits it's own bits. What a WASTE of money!!!!
Gary K.