Made in America?

[John Preston]

I definitely have ambivalent feelings whenever I see this symbol these days. First, I think "Good, it's good to see things made here" then I think "I bet it's inferior."

I work with fabrication industries, and spend a fair amount of time inspecting welds. Many of the workers are up from Mexico on green cards. I can look at a section and tell immediately whether it was locals or contractors from Mexico that welded it. The Mexicans do much better work, even the locals admit this. They may not be quick (I don't know, they may be faster), that's outside my scope, but they produce a much better finished product when they are done.

I look at management practices of some of the companies I work with, and despair. I see many of the foremen leaning on the handrail soaking up the sun. They have no idea what their workers are doing, let alone if they are doing a good job. I have suspicions that some of them wouldn't fit into the areas being welded, and the others might get lost trying to find a way out.

Maybe this just comes from being jaded and working with around a company until the old "familiarity breeds contempt" adage comes true, and I am projecting that onto everything else.

The industry I work in is dominated by foreign companies, especially in China, Korea, Japan, etc. In those countries, they set out to streamline the process of production, utilizing planning and scheduling to make everything come together at the proper time.

I believe one of the companies I work with goes with the philosophy of "if we get all the parts gathered together, and we have a lot of people, then eventually the project will come together."

I would like to think that good old American ingenuity will prevail over others, but I also worry that our heads are swelled up so far that we believe we are superior, all the way until our jobs disappear, because we aren't efficient enough to produce anything here. From what I've seen, some companies could produce more if their employees just got 4 hours of actual work done in a day.

I live in a state where people complain about lost jobs and no work. The companies I work with cannot find enough people to pass the drug test and willing to show up to work. There's work here, but it's not in an air-conditioned office. But then again, you don't need a college degree to weld. It's dirty, hard work, but probably safer and maybe easier than most anything our parents or grandparents did.

Tools are an excellent example. Almost all of the tools purchased today are from Taiwan or China. Delta, Jet, Powermatic, General, etc. If I see "made in America" on a tool, I can't help but think of overpriced or inferior quality.

Or am I just a blind pessimist looking at the wrong industry for a view of America?

[John Miliunas]

...But in a lot of instances, I can't help but think you're right. As a quick example, I just recently purchased a used vehicle made in Japan. I set out to replace the speakers on it, which involved removing the door panels. The job was not only pretty simple, but when I went to reinstall them, everything snapped back together tight and in its proper place. I've done a number of US made cars and it seems that on almost every last one, the snap thingies on the panels would inevitably break. On the WW front, I just took delivery on a Bridgewood table saw. Yes, I'd easily stack it up against a comparably powered Powermatic.

On the flip side, I'm waiting on a US made Woodsucker cyclone. One of the reasons I bought it is because, it IS made in the US. I believe it's made by a company concerned and who cares that it puts out a quality product. I've yet to read a negative comment about the unit itself or the OEM producing it. Unfortunately, I also think it's one of the few American manufacturers, which still does take a lot of pride in their product.

Yes, I'm sure there are many, many more positive examples of good quality items made Stateside, but I'm afraid those numbers may be dwindling. Man, I'd sure welcome a lot of rebutals to this, with examples of true American pride in the products they produce... Come on folks, chime in with more example! :cool:

[Dennis Peacock]

Made in America doesn't really mean what it did in years past. The ww stuff I do, I do with pride as an american and want to show what an american can do. So what's going on?

a. IT industry jobs will all but 30% will be overseas by 2008.

b. Many furniture compaines are shipping wood overseas and getting China to build their fine furniture and shipping the finished product back to the U.S.

c. American cars have the most rattles, cracks, doors that droop and are in the shop more than any other countries cars.

d. Too many people in America like getting life on a "silver platter" instead of working for it. I can't tell you how many people I have interviewed that WANT the JOB, but can't or will NOT do the WORK.!!!!

I better stop here before I break a TOS agreement. ;)

[Chuck Wintle]

The American car industry has had many years to turn themselves around, after the first Japanese imports started to come in, to begin to make a quality efficient well made vehicle.

We laughed when we saw how bad those first Japanese cars were. The japanese, however, working to continuously improve their products and have never looked back. They make a car the public wants to buy!

Well The American car buying public is still waiting for GM Ford and Chrysler to make this car.

Its ironic that an American by the name of Demming went to Japan, after being snubbed by the American car companies, to help them improve quality using methods statistical analysis.

[John Miliunas]

I'm not sure if it's still this way, but from what I understand, the Japanese have (had) a very simple method of quality assurance: On their assembly lines, each and every person is responsible for QA. What they do(did?) is such a simple concept: (this is only an example, but you'll get the idea.) When Lineworker B gets the assembly, he's (she) is supposed to snap the bezel on the instrument pod. BUT, before doing so, he(she) is to check and be sure Lineworker A has properly secured the instrument cluster. If not, *HE/SHE* is responsible to be sure it's secure before proceeding. Then, when Lineworker C gets the assembly, they are to secure the steering column to the underbelly of the dash. BUT, before doing so, they are to be sure the bezel is properly secured. If not, *THEY* are responsible for doing so. This continues right on down the line. The concept is pathetically simple AND effective, because now, each worker feels responsible for not generating excess work on their assembly line counterpart. Unlike most operations I've seen in the States, their (Japanese) QA is continuous, not every 30 or 40 steps later, if even that often. In other words, each and every worker is held accountable. "Accountability" is something, which I believe, has been almost totally lost in the US manufacturing process. Again, this is not to mean that *each* and *every* US manufacturer or worker is like this, but there are enough of them, which makes the scenario painfully obvious. Just my $00.02/worth.... :cool:

[Chuck Wintle]

When the big 3 became organized in the Thirties unions and management have regarded each other as adversaries rather than partners and this is reflected in the product they make or don't make.
There is a place for unions though, necessary to mitigate the greed of corporate America, but management will go where the labor cost is the lowest. With globalization and container shipping this has become increasing easier.

[Ed Falis]

John,

I too hate to be a pessimist. But I see this kind of thing in the software business (which is my business) as well.

Someone on one of these forums posted a reference to an article about a Chinese factory that builds computer cases. There are some very telling comments in that article about the workers' dedication to their work compared to here. And they don't make the kind of bucks we do, either. But what I did see in that article was the sense that the workers and management both believed they were engaged in an activity for their common good. Whereas here, we tend to live in Dilbert-world.

OK, I found it - see the url: http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20031006/

- Ed

[David LaRue]

Charles,

Funny that you mention Demming. When I was in school I studied Demming. I worked at Ford when they made the Tempo and were proud of it! Later Peterson brought Demming in to run the qualility effort. I later got the oppurtunity to meet Demming (surprised to find out he was still alive ;), as I was working on service data collection and analysis systems. He was quite an inspiration. And for a while it worked. But then budgets and profits, production numbers, verses quality crept back in.

Unfortunately, the auto industry has not fully endorsed and institionalized a "single" quality process. Lots of fits and starts with ISO, 6 Sigma, 7 step, Demming ... I think in general that we (Americans)seek the easy fix, and the management method of the month, rather than looking at it from a long turn process issue, that revoles around people, processes, and measured results (other than just short turn profits and stock prices).

The audo industry, had a choice to reinvest the wind fall profits that were the result of reducing the import numbers in the 70's and 80's, but instead elelected to "invest" that money elese where: banks, rental car companies, insurance, and other foriegn car compies, rather than fixing their own fundimental issues.

The software industry is going through a similar cycle. We should apply our lessons learned and fix the root causes.

Ok, I'm down from my soap box...

Dave