Tablesaw safety issue and gloat!

[Gene Collison]

Thanks to you guys and your recommendations, I have purchased a new Shop Fox 3hp cabinet saw equipped with an Osborne EB3 miter gauge with a stop for repetitive cutting. BTW, the saw is a real upgrade compared to my old contractor saw, I love it! Thanks to all that helped me make this decision!
The blade is aligned dead on parallel to the miter slot using a calibration plate and dial indicator for verification. Here is my question; When using the miter gauge with the stop I am advancing the miter gauge and work piece until it is cut. After the cut is completed, I retract the workpiece with miter gauge towards me, I don't pass the board past the rear of the blade and then turn off the saw. I am feeling somewhat unsafe doing it this way because I do have a trapped piece of wood risking a possible kickback. Or am I overly concerned? The workpiece is not really free to rotate even though it is trapped and the blade teeth are forcing it against the table . I see Norm do it the way I described every week. I would like to have some opinions on this, how do you guys do it? Am I at risk for a kickback? Incidently, there is no play in the slot on the miter guage, Zero! Any ideas? TIA.......

Gene

[Steve Jenkins]

You don't really neeed to worry about kickback in that case because you are holding the piece against the miter gauge. Where kickback is a potential is when you have a loose piece trapped between the rip fence and the blade. If it vibrates and turns slightly it will jam in that space the rotation of the blade will take over and give it a heck of a toss. Steve

[Ed Falis]

Gene,

I agree with Steve.

Congrats on the new saw!

- Ed

[warthog5]

Gene I just bought the same saw. Ain't it great. HeHe
Here's how I modified the saw already.

I added a router table extension. 1/2 MDF glued to 3/4 Marine fir and laminate on both sides, banded in Oak with biscuits.
Hartville Tools Fence, Miter Slot, and T-Slot.
I added a custom piece to the Shop Fox fence for dust collection and a small tool box.
Milwaukee 2 1/4hp router hung under it.


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid85/p19e0f3771437b27f6eff4db3ed26993c/fab47b64.jpg


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid87/p1d8d02e35cca82d9b5c486173fcb77a9/faa03371.jpg


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid88/p8df342a84754e854905da7bd38edbde8/fa93156d.jpg


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid88/p4773bda94459fe23737ea1a7b47d1036/fa931565.jpg


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid88/pc8efa4529b5a9d4efcfeb713ef256c23/fa931562.jpg

[Gene Collison]

Yes, the saw is great, love it!!! Your mods look well done, I'd like to see them in the flesh. Thanks for sharing....... You have the new VS Milwaukee too, I'll bet that's great too. I have the Milwaukee 3.5 big daddy of yours which is IMHO an exceptionally good tool, the best collets in the business. Nice forged wrenches too!

Gene

[John Scarpa]

I bought the same saw last Saturday along with their 8"jointer and floor standing Spindle sander. Also picked up a Mini Max 16" Bandsaw. THey should all be delivered Monday or Tuesday.

I picked up a lot of help via this forum and just gave up being a "lurker" today and joined up.

Yesterday I picked up a Delta Variable speed drill press and a delta mortiser. I'm finally realizing my dream of setting up a shop. I have lots to do yet. Wiring, cabinets, etc.

I liked Warthogs modifications. I got the 30" fence as well. How effective is your dust collection?

[Gene Collison]

I bought the same saw last Saturday along with their 8"jointer and floor standing Spindle sander. Also picked up a Mini Max 16" Bandsaw. THey should all be delivered Monday or Tuesday.

I picked up a lot of help via this forum and just gave up being a "lurker" today and joined up.

Yesterday I picked up a Delta Variable speed drill press and a delta mortiser. I'm finally realizing my dream of setting up a shop. I have lots to do yet. Wiring, cabinets, etc.

I liked Warthogs modifications. I got the 30" fence as well. How effective is your dust collection?

John,

Congrats on membership and all the new equipment, welcome aboard! Incidently, where did you buy your saw, I see you are from Orange County. I am using a 1 hp dedicated dust collector with the saw and it is doing a good job. Pickup is a 1000% better than my old contractor saw with a catcher on it. I am still getting a small amount of dust from the table but it's pretty minimal. The saw is designed about as well as it can be for dust collection I think. My alignment was perfect as delivered, of course you still have to adjust the fence and the guard.

Gene

[John Scarpa]

Gene,

I got the equipment at the Woodworking show at the Orange County Fair Grounds. Battels Hardware in Whittier is the Vendor. "Rudy" was the guy that helped me out. After I got the ShopFox stuff I went to their store later that week and picked up the DP and Mortiser.

Glad to hear you dust collector is doing the job for you. Once I get all of this equipment set in place a dust collector will be next for me. My shop will be in our 2 car garage so the LOML will be happy if I do a good job with dust collection.

John

[warthog5]

John Scarpa I was amazed at how well it does work. I plug a Craftsman shop vac into it. On a scale, Id say 95% of the dust get's sucked right up.

[rrich]

Gene,
At school, (Cerritos College) they teach us to go completely past the blade and do not, repeat DO NOT, pull the miter and trapped stock back through the spinning blade. There is ALWAYS a chance for a kick back from the trapped stock. (Maybe just one in a thousand chance; but I don't count cuts and I don't know which cut between 1 and 1000 is the one going to kick back.)

The best procedure is to stop the saw, wait for the blade to stop spinning and then retieve the work.

A very good alternative is to push the stock through the blade and then walk around to the other side of the saw to retieve the work.

Another good alternative is to push the stock through the blade by a few inches and leave it there. Then procede with the next cut. This is slightly dangerous because the stock from the previous cut has a tendancy to distract the operator.

In my shop, I usually use the stop the saw and wait method. This gives me the time to visualize my next cut. Remember that you can't be too safe.

Rich

[Gene Collison]

Gene,
At school, (Cerritos College) they teach us to go completely past the blade and do not, repeat DO NOT, pull the miter and trapped stock back through the spinning blade. There is ALWAYS a chance for a kick back from the trapped stock. (Maybe just one in a thousand chance; but I don't count cuts and I don't know which cut between 1 and 1000 is the one going to kick back.)

The best procedure is to stop the saw, wait for the blade to stop spinning and then retieve the work.

A very good alternative is to push the stock through the blade and then walk around to the other side of the saw to retieve the work.

Another good alternative is to push the stock through the blade by a few inches and leave it there. Then procede with the next cut. This is slightly dangerous because the stock from the previous cut has a tendancy to distract the operator.

In my shop, I usually use the stop the saw and wait method. This gives me the time to visualize my next cut. Remember that you can't be too safe.

Rich

Rich,

Thanks for the detailed reply. I think your recommendations are the true totally safe method. Thanks....

Gene

[Kurt Aebi]

Gene,

Rich is absolutely right about his method - follow it and you will not get hurt. On Oct. 24, I reached up to clear away a cutoff by the blade and split my thumb to the first joint parallel to the thumbnail. 3-1/2 weeks later, I still have my thumb but it has a pin in it holding it straight and with any luck I'll get most of the use of it again. It will take up to a whole year to determine how much use and feeling I'll get back. SO PLEASE obey all safe methods - LEARN FROM ME - it could have been much, much, much worse. I am lucky, but you can be luckier and always observe safe work habits. These machines have no mercy on human flesh and as Howard Ruttan put it on his web site "The tablesaw isn’t your friend, it is an emotionless beast who couldn’t give a rat’s patoot about you and your fingers". Not meant to scare you Gene, just to educate you as to how even (especially) a very experienced woodworker can get careless or stupid.
Your table saw will no doubt be one of your very best investments and versatile pieces of equipment in your shop, I just want you to be at the top of your game and wits everytime you are using it. The guys here at The Mill are some of the best and give the best advice out there. You are already showing that you are smarter than me just by asking this question.

Take Care and Happy & Safe woodworking to you.

Kurt

[Gene Collison]

Gene,

Rich is absolutely right about his method - follow it and you will not get hurt. On Oct. 24, I reached up to clear away a cutoff by the blade and split my thumb to the first joint parallel to the thumbnail. 3-1/2 weeks later, I still have my thumb but it has a pin in it holding it straight and with any luck I'll get most of the use of it again. It will take up to a whole year to determine how much use and feeling I'll get back. SO PLEASE obey all safe methods - LEARN FROM ME - it could have been much, much, much worse. I am lucky, but you can be luckier and always observe safe work habits. These machines have no mercy on human flesh and as Howard Ruttan put it on his web site "The tablesaw isn’t your friend, it is an emotionless beast who couldn’t give a rat’s patoot about you and your fingers". Not meant to scare you Gene, just to educate you as to how even (especially) a very experienced woodworker can get careless or stupid.
Your table saw will no doubt be one of your very best investments and versatile pieces of equipment in your shop, I just want you to be at the top of your game and wits everytime you are using it. The guys here at The Mill are some of the best and give the best advice out there. You are already showing that you are smarter than me just by asking this question.

Take Care and Happy & Safe woodworking to you.

Kurt

Kurt,

Thanks for your input. I am going to adhere strictly to the advice that you and Rich thoughtfully provided. Hope your thumb comes out OK and thanks again.....

Gene