Basic sharpening question

[Dick Durbin]

Once in a while even a blind hog roots up an acorn and so did I last week. I was in Louisville, Ky and found a really good deal on my first lathe, a Jet mini-lathe.

I have been reading about how you need a jig to assist in grinding bevels on the turning tools and have just about decided to buy Penn State's version of the Wolverine jig. I picked up a Richard Raffan video at the library and noticed that he only uses a tool rest, not a jig. Is he able to do that simply because he has been doing it a long time, or is a jig really not necessary?

Dick Durbin
Tallahassee

[John Hart]

Welcome Dick!!! Nice place to hang out. The vortex is deep....beware. ;)

Personally, I don't use a jig. but I'm in the minority methinks.

[Jim Stoppleworth]

I was not confident enough to freehand sharpen so I have the Wolverine jig and vari-grind and skew attachments. I no longer use the skew attachment. The others I use every day. I'm very comfortable with them and get repeatable sharpenings and will continue to use them. Someday when I'm all caught up with turning projects I will teach myself freehand. On the other hand I have a neighbor who does all his sharpening freehand just as well.

Either here, AAW forums or Woodnet I saw someone familiar with Wolverine and the Penn State system give a review negative to the Penn state jigs, with specific reasons why he had problems. Sorry I can't remember which forum.

Jim

[Mark Pruitt]

Welcome to The Creek, Dick. Since I boiught my Wolverine Jig with Vaqrigrind and Skew attachments to use with a slow speed grinder, sharpening turning tools can be accomplished with lightening speed. I highly recommend it.

[Andy Hoyt]

My rationale for acquiring the Wolverine rig was that I wanted to focus on getting better at turning and was not interested in the learning curve associated with freehand sharpening. By having a consistent repeatable grind, I felt that my tool control skills would improve faster and sooner.

But I do skews with rounded edges (or ones over 3/4" wide) and scrapers freehand.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Welcome to the Creek Dick!

I use the Wolverine system for my bowl gouges only - everything else I sharpen freehand. I find the angle of the bowl gouge is critical - for me at least - and find that I can get rapid repeatable results using a jig.

[Jim Becker]

Many of the pros these days use jigs to sharpen gouges for the same reason the rest of us do...consistancy. This is especially important with the side-grinds which have become pretty much "standard" with many turners.

[Paul Engle]

Dick, hand grinding (no jig) is really all about our moxie. it's like 7up, never had it never will. or if you like " some do , some don't" . As for me I likes me moxie with out a jig, forces me to understand and do better without relying on some one else to take the worry out of being " close" :D , not that I knock those who use jigs, their moxie maybe in a different place but it is just as special to them as mine is to me. You decide where yours is and go for it man !:D Merry Christmas yall !!!!

[Gary DeWitt]

I use the Wolverine, especially on bowl gouges. A properly ground side grind is a variable angle grind, and I don't want to spend the time to learn it freehand either.
Another thing not noted above, you will generally grind off less metal per sharpening with a jig, at least in the learning stages. If you bought high end tools, this is something to consider.
There is a very good sharpening DVD available from AAW. Here's the link:
http://www.woodturner.org/products/videos/
About 1/4 of the page down.
Welcome, and come back often!

[Dennis Peacock]

Mark, Andy, and Jim have covered about every base there is on why use a jig. The biggest deal with beginning turning? Is to have a "consistant" bevel/grind on your tools so you can concentrate on learning how to turn wood. Learning to turn is enough on it's own without having to learn how to turn AND how to sharpen freehand. Just pic learning to "turn wood" and after a while you can learn to "sharpen freehand".

I was going to be really cool when I started and learn how to do it the "right way"....freehand sharpening. NOT!!!!!! I ground up most of a new 3/8" bowl gouge trying to get a consistant grind/bevel. I finally gave up to help save what was left of my bowl gouge. Today, it's the shortest turning tool I have. :o :rolleyes:

[Bernie Weishapl]

Welcome Dick to Creek. Watch the black hole of the vortex because it is quite deep. I am like all the rest. I want to learn turning so got the jig for consistant results in my sharpening. When I can turn well enough then I will learn to sharpen.

[George Tokarev]

Mark, Andy, and Jim have covered about every base there is on why use a jig. The biggest deal with beginning turning? Is to have a "consistant" bevel/grind on your tools so you can concentrate on learning how to turn wood. Learning to turn is enough on it's own without having to learn how to turn AND how to sharpen freehand. Just pic learning to "turn wood" and after a while you can learn to "sharpen freehand".


I don't use a jig. Maybe it's because I don't have the skill to apply the gouge to the different species and orientations of wood, let alone the slopes and curves with anywhere near the precision to justify the external jig. I cut freehand, so always enter high and across the grain, lower the angle and peel down without looking at the gouge. I'm too busy feeling the wood, watching the form of the shavings and planning ahead. When the feedback changes, I change the presentation until I get what I want again. Since I came to turning through carving, where you have ample time to learn what the wood's trying to tell you as you cut it, it seems the proper approach.

The jig promotes sort of backward think for beginners. It assumes the angle of the grind rather than errors in the angle of presentation to be the cause of troubles. The number of different grinds and the absolute unsuitability of a grind used for a U gouge on a V and moreso on a detail or flat forged, not to mention a pointed ... well too many jigs for me, and too much of the element of the poor workman blaming his tools, especially when , as Ol' Roy Underhill says, the tool is self jigging.

If you present the tool to the wheel as you present it to the work, firmly supported and bevel rubbing, you get back the angle you went in with, only the edge is a touch farther back. Helps cultivate the light touch you'll appreciate on the lathe, too.

Besides, there's always another tool on the rack with a suitable grind for the spot you've got yourself in. If not, buy another!

[Christopher K. Hartley]

I don't know about Moxie, Macho and all that stuff but when I started I took the advice offered by Ray Key and started freehand sharpening. Now, I still have a long way to go but working on multi-facet free results gives some satisfaction when following the no jig route.:) Oh ya. WELCOME to the Vortex!

[Andy Hoyt]

I disagree George.

Learning to turn wood takes time - a lot of time - and with the many variables introduced by freehand grinding the beginning turner (who's also quite likely to be a beginning grinder) will have so much to deal with that it's possible to never achieve a state of comfort with and an intuitive understanding of any one element.

By maintaining a consistent grind throughout the early stages of turning one is allowed to focus on learning what motion and orientation of a particular tool produces a given result. As time passes and experience in gained, the opportunity to explore different grinds on the same tool will present itself naturally enough. For me that Eureka Moment came at the bottom of a narrow yet deep bowl.

By extension, this notion is also why I chose to acquire my mayo. It allows me to concentrate on what I'm doing and not having to do battle with what I'm doing it with.

[Dick Strauss]

Dick,
You can make all of your own jigs like I did. I even managed to make some improvements and make a rounded faced skew (non-oval) jig. If you have the time, the price was right!

I'm with Andy and most others...get your tools consistently sharp so you can concentrate on tool presentation and technique. Just as you did in math class, you want to eliminate the variables to solve the problem...

Best of luck and welcome,
Dick

[John Hart]

I would like to point out that although, I don't use a jig, I highly recommend getting one. This type of hypocricy rises from laziness, I might add.....or maybe it's because I wanted a new chuck worse than I wanted a jig..... or a big ol chunk of amboyna burl worse than a jig... or whatever.;) I know that my inconsistency in sharpening has led to my extended learning curve. So I guess I'm regularly a great example of what NOT to do! :)

[George Tokarev]

I always figured sharpening was a fundamental skill for all woodworking. Putting an edge on a lawnmower blade is pretty much the same as a chisel or turning tool.

I've found that a dull edge presented properly outcuts a sharp one presented improperly, which is why I concentrate on precision in cutting, not grinding. Tough to imagine, dinosaur that I am, but you're probably right about experience level of beginning turners. People are turning who never learned to sharpen so much as a jackknife in the past. They could benefit both by the experience of honing and using one. Lot of turning knowledge available from whittling.

If you pick up the scrub and jackplane rather than the planer sled to flatten wide boards, you're just that kind of guy.