Thoughts on the WoodRat?

[Jesse Thornton]

Hey everybody,
I've never seen a live demo of the WoodRat, but what I've seen and read on the web seems pretty intriguing. I know this has been discussed before on this forum, but nor for some time, so I thought I'd check out what the current range of opinions are.
It definately seems a little pricey, but for the price I'd expect it to be extremely well machined and accurate. From what I gather, the enormous range of possibilities just might be worth the pain.
Experiences and/or opinions?

[Ted Christiansen]

Jesse,

I have been thinking about purchasing the Woodrat lately as well. I currently make mortises using a jig I made and make the tenons on the tablesaw with a tenoning jig. It works ok, but the approach could be improved. I have considered getting a hollow chisel mortiser, but wonder if a Trend MT jig or Woodrat would be a better choice.

Ted

[Gary Curtis]

I bought my WoodRat used 1 year ago. Bear in mind that the tooling you can buy as extras can easily push $1000 beyond the cost of the machine and the rourter. Get the woodrat DVD from chipsfly.com and that will help guide your purchase.

I figured that the Rat would supplant the need for a router table, which can cost just as much but not offer the same kind of output. Actually, I ended up getting a saw-table-top router table too for things like dados and jointing edges.

The WoodRat excels at tasks much like a 3-D CNC machine. Buy one if you plan on making lots of wood joints. If needed solely for profiling or raising panels, save your moneyl. Though it's safer than a router table for edge work (and don't forget the dust collection), a WoodRat is designed to make dovetails, mortise and tenon, box (or finger) joints, sliding dovetails. I learned how to make sliding dovetails in about 1.5 days. I cranked out 32 of them for bench legs and rails for my shop.

Dovetail joints and box joints would take more time to master. But you will never beat the look with the Leigh or Akeda jigs. Or have the flexibility. Other WoodRat users have told me I would have to practice for a half week to get good at these joints. I will say that there is a learning curve, probably because so many things are possible.

The DVD will show it all. As I learn more, I found that I can use the Rat to cut biscuits, and instead of buying the new Festool Domino, I'll make floating tenon cuts on the Rat, then buy Festool's tenon stock, and save $800 not getting their machine.

A good website showing lots of uses, jigs, accessories and tips can be found at the English site : aldel.co.uk. He's the master of the machine. Oh, and it is a lot fun to operate.

Good luck.
Gary Curtis

[Doug Mason]

I have the Rat as well. For me it in no way replaces a router table; I use it primarily for joinery. But as I am now cutting a majority of my joints by hand, I am using it even less. With all tooling expect the cost to approach 1K (as stated above).

that it does not replace a

[Al Willits]

When Tyler and I visited Dave Richards, he was kind enough to show us his, and it is a neat piece of equiptment, it did seem to do quite a bit and would be a nice tool to have, unfortnately for me it's a bit to expensive.
For me the money would be spent better on some other basic tools.
It also seems to have a pretty good learning curve to it, Dave seems to have it figured out, but I could see me getting fustrated trying to get comfortable with it.

For those who have a bit more disposable income and take their wood working fairly serious, I could see getting one of these.

I think there's a place on my wall for one (well..there could be with a bit of work) but I think its gonna be futher down the line.

Al

[Gary Curtis]

Here's a few more points that might help. Though I own the machine, I don't want to just wave the flag and the cheer loudly. This forum is a bit more level headed than that. And I am only about 40% through my education.

As to difficulty learning, that is wholly because you will be working in 3 dimensions. It reminds of me of learning to fly a plane. It is a stretch, in the beginning.

But once you see some sample work done, no other method can compare, except perhaps the Multi Router. And that device costs $2500. Aldel's website in england or chipsfly.com have some pretty impressive samples of work.

A big advantage is that there are no little bits and pieces serving as templates. All destined to clutter up the shop or get lost. The versatility seems to invite a lot of creativity, and that can be seen in the samples I mentioned. Dovetails done on router tables look clunky.

And the precision is impressive. On the sliding dovetail bench bases I built, I didn't assemble them using glue. I can take them down. I was able to tune in the fit to about .003" in just about 15 minutes of fiddling.

A big plus is work holding. Because the work is firmly clamped to the machine, you can safely make down cuts. Down cuts are much cleaner, but dangerous on a router table. Coupled with this are the HSS bits sold by WoodRat. They come in a variety of elegant shapes and so away with the clunky look imposed on you when using tungsten. HSS cuts better because it can be sharpened to a finer edge.

Get the $5 DVD, which explains everything. If you buy the equipment from the Craftsman Gallery (chipsfly.com), the telephone and email support you get are invaluable.


Gary Curtis

[Eric Mims]

Gary, did you build the bench like the one built on the DVD? I just picked up a ton of oak and thought I might make some. If so, what size dovetail bit did you find to work well, and did you add a trestle or other reinforcement.

I like my Woodrat, but can't give a solid opinion yet, as I haven't spent enough time with it.

[Jesse Thornton]

Thanks for the responses. I definately wasn't looking for a router table replacement - I've built a pretty decent one, and having a router with exchangable bases (bosch), I've got one of the bases permanently dedicated to it. I could get an extra one to dedicate to the Rat if need be. I also have a good assortment of straight bits and dovetail bits already, so I wouldn't have too many added expenses right off the bat (though I realize it might be worth upgrading to the woodrat HSS spirals at some point).
I guess the two issues that hold most people back are the price and the slow learning curve. Yet I haven't heard anyone who actually owns it claiming they feel ripped off. My wife and I are planning to sell our house this spring/early summer, and we've agreed we'll each be allowed to spend a good chunk on new toys....er...I mean tools. She's really into sewing, and the high end equipment costs a fair bit, so lucky me, I can use that as leverage for my own rabid consumerism.
We're also planning to move onto a nice peice of forest on the west coast, far from the madding crowd, so the pace of our lives will hopefully leave lots of room for shop play. I think I would get a lot of use out of a woodrat once I'd achieved a good level of competence with it. I guess the most prudent thing to do is to take your advice and buy the DVD.
I think I'll pick it up from my local Lee Valley though, just because I love everything about that place and support them whenever I can. Besides having such wonderful toys, their customer service is phenomenal.

[Gary Curtis]

Eric, I built 28' of work benches along the perimeter of my shop using 1 inch Baltic Birch ply. The legs and stretchers were 4x4 and 2x6. I used the 13/16ths dovetail mainly, and a 3/4 DT a little. both bits are HSS.

Jesse, I live in the mountains 80 miles inland from Eureka California. I would heartily suggest using Craftsman Gallery in Ohio for your purchase. The support is invaluable and you will need it. I love Lee Valley, but I think this machine demands knowledgeable sales support, and Lee Valley is a new player in this game.

Lewis Stepp at the Craftsman Gallery is a first-rate woodworker. Why consider a hollow chisel mortiser when the WR does the same function, or you could buy the Festool Domino when it is released this spring?

[Jesse Thornton]

I would heartily suggest using Craftsman Gallery in Ohio for your purchase. The support is invaluable and you will need it. I love Lee Valley, but I think this machine demands knowledgeable sales support, and Lee Valley is a new player in this game.

That's definately a point worth considering. I'll check them out. I have a few months yet before I'll have the disposable income, so in the meantime perhaps I'll open a dialogue with them and see where it goes.
Thanks for the advice.

[Dave Richards]

Jesse,

As Al alluded to I also have a WoodRat. I've had mine for about 5 years and think it is a great addition to the router. Frankly I don't think the learning curve is as steep as a lot of foks would have you believe. You need to get your head around the fact that the router is right side up and that it can move relative to the "fence", the face of the machine.

Climb cuts are safe and actually preferred for operations such as cutting tenons. You'll get nice, clean shoulders.

Dovetails are one of those things that the Rat does well. You aren't limited to any specific bits like you are with every other dovetail machine on the market. The HSS dovetail bits from WoodRat and from The Craftsman Gallery make nice slender sockets unlike carbide bits. They are almost slender enough to look like handcut sockets.

there are so many things you can do with the Rat without buying more accessories. Suppose you're working on a Sunday evening trying to finish up a project and you need 12" of cherry dowel 7/16" in diameter. Can't run out and get it but in 10 minutes you could have it made with the Rat.

When considering the price consider what you would need to spend to buy the equivalent capability. As an example, compare it to the Leigh Jig and the Leigh FMT. That covers dovetails, mortises and tenons. Add in something to do raised panels (you've got a table already so I suppose that doesn't count), an edge guide if it didn't come with the router, etc. The price of all that would exceed the price of the Rat.

Another thing I like about the Rat is that since it is on the wall all the time, it is always ready to go and always put away. I don't need to clear bench space to use it.

If you haven't done so, take a look at the Craftsman Gallery site. Lewis Stepp is the primary US distributor for the Rat. He offers a whole bunch of accessories that you can't get from Lee Valley. The accessories aren't required to make the thing "go" but they can add some extra capability.

[Al Willits]

OK Dave, you keep that up and I'll have to raise the rat a bit higher on my "want" list....:)

I had forgot all it can do, thanks.

Al

[Dave Richards]

Sorry Al. I was trying to take it easy because I didn't want you to have to rewrite your list. ;)

[Al Willits]

After our visit, I had it pretty much on the top of the list... when she heard the price, you know who, gave me the "LOOK" and I had to drop it down a bit....:)

Al

[Dave Richards]

Yeah, I know that LOOK all to well. :rolleyes:

[John Lucas]

I am always happy to chime in on the WoodRat and the LittleRat, too. The learning curve is no greater than with the D4 and once you get the idea of how it works, it becomes wuite intuitive. Lewis Stepp at the Craftsman Gallery is the US dealer and does a materful job of selling and supporting the product.
Because I do the website, people think that it is easier for me to pickup these new products...as to learning. Not so, I approach them each in the same way. Immerse myself in the manual and make joints in scraps until I can get one joint mastered...the rest becomes so much easier.
There are about 60 pages of how-to on woodshopdemos.com.
This is the very first page: http://www.woodshopdemos.com/wr-1.htm
and here is Dovetail JIg Shootout: http://www.woodshopdemos.com/dtshoot-1.htm
http://www.woodshopdemos.com/rjig-47.jpg

and if you google with this " woodrat site:www.woodshopdemos.com " you wiill find 167 pages on the site.

[Jesse Thornton]

Thanks for the links, that info should definately help me understand the Rat's capabilities a little better.
I must say, though I was already pretty keen on what I'd learned about the WoodRat so far, your responses are definately pushing me further in the direction of making the plunge (no pun intended). I think it would be a worthy investment. BTW fellas, I find that word - investment - comes in handy in discussions with the ol' ball and ch...uh, wife. "But honey, just think of all the money I'll be able to make with one of these!"