shop floor??

[larry merlau]

this may be in the wrong place and if so go ahead and delete it.. my question is if you had and existing concrete floor but wanted a wood floor for the feet and knees. what would the best way to do so? floating floor like the school gyms have? dont have the dollars to make it wood complty like a house would have/ but perhaps it would be comparable by the time you done what is nesscary to get there from concrete.. any help would be appreciated right now there is nothing so i am open to suggestions. right now in the old shop i have the mats but that makes for machinery moving a hassel. thanks

[Jim Becker]

I've often thought about using a floating floor over concrete in my shop...

[Rob Bodenschatz]

I'll be watching this thread, Larry, as my new shop has a concrete slab that I'll be looking to put wood over. One way I've seen is to place 2x4s flat on the concrete and lay plywood over top. The article I read said to attach these sleepers to the slab using adhesive and nails.

Here's a link to the article but I'm not sure if you need to be a subscriber to see it:

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/FWNPDF/011160060.pdf

If you can't read the article, I can try to answer any more questions you may have.

I am actually considering standing 2x6s on edge to raise the floor up 6" so I can run DC ducts underneath. Not sure how I would attach them to the slab if I do that, though. Maybe just adhesive.

[lou sansone]

larry
I used 2x4 on their sides, covered with 3/4 plywood and then 3/4 hickory. you can often find seconds at flooring factories that work great for a shop floor
lou

[Rob Bodenschatz]

Jim & Larry, with the floating floor, are you saying you would just lay hardwood flooring directly on top of the concrete? Would that really give you any cushioning effect? For your feet/knees? It would seem that you'd want to raise it up a little to get that. Am I wrong?

[Jim Becker]

Putting foam insulation between the sleepers is a nice way to raise the comfort level, too.

Oh, Rob, on your other question that was posting simultaniously, many floating floors are put over a thin foam backing material that gives a slight cushion to your step. I had this in my basement in my previous residence and was surprised at how comfortable it was to walk on.

[Greg Funk]

I covered the slab in our house and my workshop with two layers of plywood 5/8 and 3/8" and then 3/4 Oak flooring. The two layers rather than 1 is supposed to be more stable. The plywood was cut into 4x4 sheets and laid with seams offset. I used 1 1/2 staples to fasten the hardwood.

The slab is radiant heated so I couldn't use 2x4's - too difficult to conduct the heat from the slab.

Greg

[Tom Hamilton]

Larry, I used the plans from a FWW year end article about 2001.

PT 2X4's over 6 mil plastic. No glue or nails at this point. 16 or 24 inch centers.

Cover the sleepers with T&G Ply floor underlayment screwed or nailed. This is the walking surface. I coated mine with BLO and then stained with Golden Oak. A coat of Poly finished it off. I recoat with Poly once a year or so.

Springiy to my old runner's knees, sharp things stick and don't get knicked when dropped, and relatively inexpensive. Plus I like the look, like a wood shop!

Hope this helps, Tom

[Art Mulder]

No one has mentioned using dimpled membrane yet. Try googling "Delta-FL" and it is the first hit. I've not used it myself, but seen it on some howto shows and articles. Just roll out the plastic, and lay plywood over it, and fasten down to the concreate. Gives cushions, gives air space (in case of any moisture), and gives a thermal break. Also is fairly thin compared to other methods.

In the local borg you can buy this in 2x2 panels already fastened to OSB, so you just put it together like a jigsaw - but that's more money than just buying the big roll and doing it yourself.

[Charles Grosjean]

Another manufacturer is Armtec with their Platon membrane. That was what was used on DriCore (2' x 2' panels @ Home Depot) originally. Now DriCore has a star shaped pattern and I'm not sure who is making it.

If you look at the cost of Platon membrane + 3/4" OSB vs. DriCore, the DriCore is about US $0.50/sq ft more expensive, but it is also more convenient. I think either of these solutions is preferable to 6mil poly or the combo foam and barrier pads used for floating floors.

Another option for floors that don't get flooded, but might have a mild (see manufacturers instructions) moisture issue is one of the conformal coatings, either an epoxy system from Taylor or Bostik, or MVP from Bostik. Then you can glue down sleepers and/or plywood. I'd be fairly nervous about doing this in a garage though.


No one has mentioned using dimpled membrane yet. Try googling "Delta-FL" and it is the first hit. I've not used it myself, but seen it on some howto shows and articles. Just roll out the plastic, and lay plywood over it, and fasten down to the concreate. Gives cushions, gives air space (in case of any moisture), and gives a thermal break. Also is fairly thin compared to other methods.

In the local borg you can buy this in 2x2 panels already fastened to OSB, so you just put it together like a jigsaw - but that's more money than just buying the big roll and doing it yourself.

[Ethan Sincox]

I read an article a while back about the kind of flooring they used to use in machine shops through much of the last century. It was endgrain block flooring.

Here is a link for one of the websites referenced...

http://www.kaswell.com/

Here is another that I found on my own...

http://www.timelesstimber.com

The last link has some good general information on it, as well, and talks about the cork "grout" you can use.

http://kennebecwood.com/history/index.html

I bet you could find a few more companies if you did a Google on endgrain block flooring.

As with any other wood floor, sharp tools aren't damaged when dropped (or there is at least less of a chance of damage), but the biggest benefits are the reduction of sound and machine vibration and the comfort from standing on it all day long. Of course, the article was mostly talking about much larger machines than most of us will ever have in our shops... but I would assume the benefits to be similar.

[lou sansone]

I read an article a while back about the kind of flooring they used to use in machine shops through much of the last century. It was endgrain block flooring.

Here is a link for one of the websites referenced...

http://www.kaswell.com/

Here is another that I found on my own...

http://www.timelesstimber.com

The last link has some good general information on it, as well, and talks about the cork "grout" you can use.

http://kennebecwood.com/history/index.html

I bet you could find a few more companies if you did a Google on endgrain block flooring.

As with any other wood floor, sharp tools aren't damaged when dropped (or there is at least less of a chance of damage), but the biggest benefits are the reduction of sound and machine vibration and the comfort from standing on it all day long. Of course, the article was mostly talking about much larger machines than most of us will ever have in our shops... but I would assume the benefits to be similar.

end grain block floors are still in use today. I worked in a facility that used them. the only problem with them is if they get wet, they will swell and buckle like crazy. I have seen the floors lifted up in sections over a foot in height !

[Don Bullock]

Has anyone tried a lamanate floor in their workshop? We have this in our kitchen abd bathrooms and it amazing. This stuff is very durable and it looks good too. It is a floating floor over a foam plastic mat. I find it very comfortable to walk on. It's much better than just concrete. Yes, I realize that it isn't real wood and I do notice the places where the grain repeats, but cost and durability won out over real wood.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

There are some really sweet industrial rubber mats that you can place on front of the machine stations with tapered edges so as not to be trip hazards.
I'd do that before re-flooring the thing.

[Jamie Buxton]

Have you considered different shoes? A wood floor laid over concrete isn't going to compress much at all when you step on it. Shoes with spongy compressible soles are likely to do a better job of cushioning your foot. Look for shoes called "walking shoes". They have shock-absorbing materials in the sole.

[larry merlau]

Have you considered different shoes? A wood floor laid over concrete isn't going to compress much at all when you step on it. Shoes with spongy compressible soles are likely to do a better job of cushioning your foot. Look for shoes called "walking shoes". They have shock-absorbing materials in the sole.


lets see shoes?$100 vrs 20 shts of plywood $600:rolleyes: actually jamie i have tried better shoes and there is a differnce, maybe its just my old knees and feet. maybe i am whoosing out here but i was on one that i really liked but i dont have the abilty to do that way i have no floor at all right now. this is for an addition that hopes to appear in spring. the one i was on had joists and 2 layers of 3/4 osb. it was sweet. i dont have the basement or crawl space option to go with a joist's unless someone has an idea i am not seeing. maybe i will just buy a bigger bottle of motrin:D

[Carlo Petrilli]

In my experience the best method is not to use 6 mil poly or sleepers. The 6 mil poly will only trap moisture and not let it naturally evaporate in turn causing mold to fester. Also sleepers even if pressure treated will form mold over time and rot. The best method is to place a layer of 1" expanded ploystrene (the white stuff) as your first layer on the floor, all edge seams are selaed together using spray foam insulation & taped on the surface with builder's tape (the red stuff). Then you place a layer of 1/2" plywood on top going in the opposite direction of styrofoam sheets and fasten these to the concrete floor using Tapcons. The final layer is another sheet of 1/2" plywood fastened with floor screws to the bottom layer of plywood going in the opposite direction of the previous layer. At this point either use hardwood planks or cork flooring to finish. This sytem will allow the moisture to evaporate naturally and give you a really strong flooring system. The following is a website where I gathered some of my info from when I did my basement shop floor:

http://buildingscience.com/

Also take a look at FIne Homebuilding March 2005 issue for an article on a mold free basement for the same idea.

[Travis Hirst]

All this talk about these floors. Any one have pictures that I could look at of their floor in their garage?

Travis

[Dan Mages]

Just a quick thought... what is the load bearing for engineered or laminate flooring? Will it hold up to the weight of some of the big tools you guys collect?

Dan

[Steven DeMars]

Get Rockports or if you don't want to spend much buy "Burger Worker" shoes . .

Those are the thick spongy soled shoes sold at Walmart for $20.00 that all the burger workers wear . . .

[Bryan Cowing]

I bought several packages of 2'x2' interlocking mats in grey , same as the ones for kids play rooms from Home Depot.

[Dick Aubochon]

Over the concrete floor in my small (12x20) shop I installed a layer of 6 mil poly due to some ground water under the slab causing a fair amount of dampness at times. I then put down 5/4 PT deck boards 16" OC with 3/4 blueboard foam insulation between. I purposely didn't attach the 1x6's to the concrete because I wanted the entire floor to "float" a bit if it needed to. For the floor itself I used 3/4 T&G Advantek sheeting screwed in place. I have to say the floor is comfortable to walk on, and the tools on mobile bases move very easily.

[Jim Andrew]

I saw a gymnasium floor being laid one time, and they put down pieces of
rubber every couple of feet, then laid 2 layers of plywood over that and then hardwood flooring. I asked about the small rubber pads, and was told that was the cushioning for the knees.