Valve Trombones

[Aaron Koehl]

Hello all. Maybe one of you members out there can help me out with a musical instrument dilemma...

I have been searching for weeks, and I've come to the conclusion that music stores just don't stock valve trombones (at least in the US). For what it's worth, I've only called about 30 retail music stores between Virginia Beach, VA and Washington, DC. If they stock any at all, it's always just a single manufacturer with no room for comparison.

What I'm trying to avoid is buying a horn online and not being able to try it out. Preferably, I'd like to try out two horns side by side. Since I don't know any valve trombonists in the area, I don't really have anyone to ask. (Buying a slide bone is much easier!)

The only music store in the area that has one in stock (yes, one) carries a Jean Baptiste student valve trombone-- I don't think I'm interested in that one, though it might be good to play against a better horn for comparison's sake. The dilemma here is that no music store wants to stock a horn they don't think they can sell, and nobody wants to buy a horn they can't play first.

That said, are there any valve trombonists in this wonderful collection of woodworkers? I'm looking for a little advice.

I currently play a Benge 165F large bore tenor trombone with a rose brass bell and a (stock) Marcellus mouthpiece, and I'm interested in a valve trombone which has a good tonal center. Well, at least as good as you might be able to get on a valve trombone.

Here's what I'm considering:

1. The Bach 16V, silver-plated (seems to have a good reputation, but don't know how the silver affects the tonal characteristics of this horn). There aren't any silver-plated ones online, but the spec sheet on the Conn-Selmer site shows the plating as an option).

2. The Jupiter 528S (never played this horn, but it's a reasonably good price point at $1200, and available in Silver)

3. The Holton TR690. Again never played this horn, .484 bore.

4. Any other suggestions you might have.

I'm looking for a jazz horn, somewhere between mellow and bright, but more on the bright side--something for a few gigs here and there. Since I only play piano professionally (and not trombone, currently), I'd even go for a lightly used horn as long as it was still shiny.

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By the way, here is some truly bodacious trombone playing, a rendition of Stars and Stripes Forever (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dq7WoY6Cngg):

If you've never seen someone play the S&S piccolo solo on trombone, it's very inspiring to say the least!

[Doug Shepard]

I seem to recall my brother having similar difficulties locating a valve trombone when he switched to one in HS. It sounds like the situation hasn't changed much. He didn't stick with it after college but was always getting trophies/awards, etc at the state band competitions during HS, especially after switching to the valve TBone. From what I remember, it made a lot of things possible that were much more difficult (or impossible) on the valveless. Dont know if he still has his or what the Make & Model are, but I'll check next time I talk to him (Christmas eve for sure, maybe sooner).

[Dan Gill]

Just buy a baritone and straighten it out. :p

[Nathan Camp]

If you have trouble finding a valve trombone, go tuba shopping sometimes.:D

I've only known a couple of trombone players that had a valve trombone, the both had the Bach. I send out a couple of emails to see if they had a recommendation or opinion. I'll let you know if I hear anything.

Nathan

[Jim Becker]

Wow, Aaron...that was a very kewl rendition of the S&S!

[Aaron Koehl]

Wow, Aaron...that was a very kewl rendition of the S&S!
Indeed, it's by a group (I believe out of the UK) called Bones Apart (http://www.bonesapart.com/).

[Aaron Koehl]

Hahaha. Well, even if I had the inclination to straighten out a baritone, it wouldn't do me much good. Well, other than good story and a crappy practice horn. ;)

The baritone tends to be too much of a conical bore (less so than a euphonium, but still more than I need) for the brightness I'm looking for.

Now, dismantling baritone players might be fun.

[Aaron Koehl]

If you have trouble finding a valve trombone, go tuba shopping sometimes.:D

I've only known a couple of trombone players that had a valve trombone, the both had the Bach. I send out a couple of emails to see if they had a recommendation or opinion. I'll let you know if I hear anything.

Nathan
True. The music stores don't seem to stock low brass or "more expensive" reed instruments. I guess if as many people took to these instruments as guitar, there'd be a shop on every corner that carried more than student horns.

[Martin Shupe]

If you have trouble finding a valve trombone, go tuba shopping sometimes.:D

Nathan

Real men play tubas...low brass rules!!!:D

[Ken Garlock]

The University of North Texas One O'clock Lab Band (http://www.jazz.unt.edu/). While I am not a musician, it is my understanding that the group is internationally known, having appeared around the world. It is my guess that is anyone knows where to find a valve trombone, they would.

A little background information can be found here (http://www.answers.com/topic/one-o-clock-lab-band).

[John Bailey]

I know this is off topic, of this off topic, but if you guys want a blast, get a copy of the dvd "Blast." The most awsome use of brass and percussion I've seen on a stage. Lots of bones and tubas.

John

[Aaron Koehl]

I know this is off topic, of this off topic, but if you guys want a blast, get a copy of the dvd "Blast." The most awsome use of brass and percussion I've seen on a stage. Lots of bones and tubas.

John
John,

I saw Blast! a few months ago live--it really is quite the "must see" !

[Steven Wilson]

Well Aaron, I can't help you specifically about finding a Valve Trombone but I might be able to help you with a search strategy that works for more obscure instruments. I play guitar and bass which are generally easy to find (except for decent upright basses) but I also enjoy playing traditional Irish Music and such have had to search out 17 fret tenor banjo's, octive mandolins and affiliated (bouzouki, cittern), and various instruments for friends (simple system flutes , Northumberland Small Pipes, Uilliean Pipes, etc). The general search steps include the following

1) local/regional music stores and stores recommended by friends. You've tried this - oh well.

2) Regional players recommendations for retail shops or repair/setup folk's. This works well for orchestral instruments. Does anyone in a local or regional symphony orchestra, theatrical orchestra, or opera play valve trombone? If so, ask them where they procured their instrument and who in the area is qualified to work on it. Then call the repair folk - they'll know (or may sell) who in the area might have a selection of instruments that interest you.

3)AFM. Your local AFM publishes a directory of members which lists the instruments they play. Call the AFM and ask who in the area plays valve trombone.

4)Makers. Call the manufacturer of your instrument and ask them who sells the most, or who sells them at all. I've found a couple of decent mailorder houses based on the recomendations of instrument builders. The best small volume builders usually have very long waiting lists (10-15 years is not uncommon) and they'll generally know who has decent used instruments or stocks of decent new instruments.

5)Mailorder/Internet. There are a lot of very good mailorder places that have a decent selection of instruments that aren't guitars or basses. The ones I visit generally concentrate in stringed instruments but I'm sure that you'll find some that are geared more towards wind instruments.

6)Claves, camps, seminars, etc. Some of the best places to find and buy wiered instruments are at gatherings where those wierd instruments congregate. If you want to find Northumberland small pipes for sale, go to a gathering of Northumberland pipers. Where do valve trombonists hang out?

Hopefully some of these will help. If you do find a place that has a couple of instruments you want to try you can either have them ship them to you to try, or a road trip might be in order. Dealers of wierd instruments understand that before you shell out the bucks you want to make sure that the instrument will work for you so you'll find that they'll work with you evaluting their instruments. Finally, sometimes you just end up putting a bunch of money up front and commission an instrument; wait months or years and then hopefully the instrument is everything you've wanted. I've been pretty luck on the instruments I've had made for me.

[Mitchell Andrus]

Try Dillons in NJ. Both of my kids have been outfitted there (Tpt, and T-bone (Bach 42 trigger). I play tenor, bari, bass sax)

http://www.dillonmusic.com/Brass.aspx

Be sure to see the videos. The ones with Warren Vache (a good friend of mine) are pretty good. They show the store off pretty well, but they don't really convey the feeling of standing in a few rooms with (no kidding) 700+ trumpets, tubas and t-bones hanging on the walls.

[Wes Bischel]

I was going to suggest Dillons as well. A few of my grandfather's "students" (they are all nearing retirement) suggested Dillons as a source for selling some of his trumpets. It seems they are well respected in many circles.

FWIW, I am no expert, just passing along a possible resource.

Wes

[Aaron Koehl]

Hmm Dillon's looks like they stock quite a few there. I wonder if there's anything like them in DC; although 6 1/2 hours is not all that far, it might save me about 4 hours. Of course, I do have family in Tom's River I haven't seen in.. well I can't remember when.

[Dave Fifield]

Aaron, you should try to get along to the NAMM show in January (I'll most likely be there again this year, as a pro-sumer). All the 'bone manufacturers will be there and you can try any of them out (tip - bring your fave mouthpiece with you).

:Dave F.

[Aaron Koehl]

I'll be out in CA at the end of Feb; a little too late for NAMM. Looks like a really neat event though.

[Mark Stutz]

As an old (take that any way you like:D ) trombone player, my initial reaction was....why waste your time with a valve trombone:D ;) :eek: , when a slider sounds so much better! HeHeHe;)

I'll second the sentiment on Blast. A must see IMO...I described it to someone as "a Drum and Bugle Corp on steroids!"

Thanks for the link to the Stars and Stripes. Classic marching band material, but I've never heard it played like that...I thought double tongueing was difficult, but triple is almost impossible!

Godd luck on your search, Sorry I can't help.

[Jamie Buxton]

By the way, here is some truly bodacious trombone playing, a rendition of Stars and Stripes Forever (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dq7WoY6Cngg):

If you've never seen someone play the S&S piccolo solo on trombone, it's very inspiring to say the least!

Good Lord, but that's amazing!!! Playing that piccolo line on a trombone is astonishing, and how the heck does she get a trombone to trill?!

[Peter Stahl]

Aaron,

I didn't know there was such a thing as a valved trombone until I saw one on How It's Made on the Science channel. They made a regular slide trombone but showed a valved one also. Did one of the young ladies in the stars & stripes video have a valved trombone? I always like rock groups with horns in them. I'm sitting here listening to Chicago's Night & Day CD. It's their rendition of big band music. Picture attached is from Dillon's, Steve the owner, maybe he could send you one of each to try out. Is there a local Orchestra you could contact and see if there are members that play the valve t-Bone and would let you try them? Good luck in you search.

[John Hart]

Wow...The Stars and Stripes really made me feel....lesser.:o I play the trombone but nowhere near that competency.

I'll keep an eye out in this area Aaron. My kid's music teacher owns a couple stores. I'll check with her.