moisture meter -- best at 2 price levels?

[Philip DiPaolo]

hi --
i have just moved into a newly started workshop and none of us has bought a moisture meter yet.

since the owner has a fair amount of recycled woods, along with wood from local mills, we thought it'd be good to have one, and we'll likely split the cost.

i see a variety of meters out there, some with pins, some without, some with cords, etc.

any general advice and info about which types are better -- and why?

i'd also appreciate any suggestions for the best/most reliable meters at 2 different price levels.
-- best under $75
-- best over $100

thanks in advance
philip

[Per Swenson]

Phillip,

We use a J-4 delmhorst with the hammer probe.

You can get for about 200 hundred and change.

Per

[Bob Smalser]

Read their FAQ before deciding:

http://www.delmhorst.com/faq.html

I have two Delmhorst, a large slide-hammer commercial model and a pocket meter....and their instruments are lifetime tools.

[Bob Smalser]

They don't have to be shiny new to work well, either. You just need to correct for temperature and species with the old ones....and they included a special slide rule and scaled tables with the meters for that purpose.

The slide hammer models with different pin lengths remain some of the most versatile ever made.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL12/1104763/3075040/214182916.jpg

(You can also see how old I'm getting if this is my idea of high-speed, low-drag gear. ;) The good news for you is I've been doing all this for at least a day or two. Note the grade stamps on the DF.)

[George Summers]

Think about it, how accurate do you really have to be? Does a couple of percent really matter in most shops? Harbor Freight has this one on sale now for 19.99

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=2757

George

[Bob Smalser]

Does a couple of percent really matter in most shops?

Actually yes, if you expect fit and finish to remain good as the wood moves seasonally.

The difference between 10% EMC and 8% EMC in White Oak that'll move to 6% EMC by the end of winter in a heated house, is around an 8th of an inch every 10 inches of flatsawn crossgrain expanse.

[Per Swenson]

You bet.

As Mr.Smalser says.

Remember, you get what you pay for.

In my work, one call back will cost me minimum $500 dollars.

So whats $200 to do it right the first time?

Per

[George Summers]

Actually yes, if you expect fit and finish to remain good as the wood moves seasonally.

The difference between 10% EMC and 8% EMC in White Oak that'll move to 6% EMC by the end of winter in a heated house, is around an 8th of an inch every 10 inches of flatsawn crossgrain expanse.

But isn't it relative? If you start with both pieces at the same moisture content? If all of my milled pieces read 8% on the same meter then they will all move the same amount. Yeh, if one read 10% and a mating piece read 6%, then I might stop and think. I don't think that the average shop has the capibility to take an 8% piece of lumber and (with equipment in the normal home shop) move it to 6% or some other percent.

George

[Bob Smalser]

But isn't it relative?

Not if one piece is 8 and the other 10, or both are 10 and they needed two more weeks of acclimatization to get to 8. Build a piece at 10% from wood that likes to move a lot, and all that fine fit and finish work will be for naught when it gets to 6%. If you think all the boards that come off of the railroad car that ran them through the kiln are all at the same EMC plus or minus 2%, you might be wrong.

But If you buy all kilned wood and store it in a heated shop for a while before using it, you can live without a meter, and use the oven test for the occasions you get a suspect piece of wood. If you buy green wood straight off the saw and air dry it yourself, or even airdried wood, a meter becomes more important. When in doubt, let the wood acclimatize in the house for another couple weeks. Either way, having an innacurate meter is worse than having no meter at all.

[richard poitras]

I just ordered a minn-ligno e/d (digital) direct from Lignomat on sale for $99.00 and that includes shipping, haven't got it yet, but I hope it's a good one ...

[Philip DiPaolo]

I just ordered a minn-ligno e/d (digital) direct from Lignomat on sale for $99.00 and that includes shipping, haven't got it yet, but I hope it's a good one ...


hi all --
thanks for the input and suggestions. i am just getting back from the weekend, and am finally reading all these now.

btw, i posted on 2 other forums (egads!) to see what the consensus would be, and a couple of people suggested the ligno mini meters.

bob smalser said, essentially, "you're better off with no meter than with an inaccurate meter." interesting, and not what i would have thought.

i guess that i can conclude then, from these and postings elswhere, that meters under $100 are probably not worth the money.

so how about your opinions of the Ligno-Mini (which seems to retail at around $90-110)?
that would give me a second option for the studio-mates.

i noticed that Lee Valley has a meter for around $75 (tube-shaped, with pins) -- and i'm wondering if it's any good. they seem to carry quality in general, and to me it feels like they're looking out for the average woodworker.

thoughts?

again, thanks in advance for your time and input.
best,
philip

[richard poitras]

I just received my Ligno-Mini in the mail it comes with two sets of pins one longer set for thicker wood and one shorter set for thinner stock, I did try it out on a load of wood I just got from the kilm were I buy my wood. The gentleman I by from always says he checks his wood very precisely before he sells it to make sure its in the 6% range and I did check it with my new meter and it read 6%, also checked it to some other greener wood I had sitting around and got readings of 20% .So I would have to say it seems to work pretty good. It is easy to use ( has two setting depending on the kind of wood you are reading /has a chart that came with the meter ) and came with a soft case to keep it in . It is digital so you know exactly what the reading is. So in the short term that I have had it I would say it is pretty good and would by it again if I had to do it all over / reasons, price, easy of use, quality of construction ……

[jonathan snyder]

I do not have a moisture meter yet & have also been wondering if a good meter can had for a reasonable price.

Fow what its worth, I just recieved the Autumn 2006 issue of Woodworking Magazine. They reviewed 7 meters and "Highly Recomended" the Lignomat Mini-Ligno and Wagner MMC205. The Delmhorst j-lite & Protimeter fell in the "Recomended" category. The other three fell in the "Not Recomended" Category.

Jonathan

[Bob Smalser]

...Autumn 2006 issue of Woodworking Magazine. They reviewed 7 meters ....

Tage Frid is dead.

I have some experience with woodworking magazines, and what's remarkable is the youth and inexperience of the editors doing such reviews. They got hired as English or Journalism majors, not woodworkers.

I didn't read this review, but have some old experience at these things as a forestry and forest biology major. If they didn't compare 100 different readings of each moisture meter with an oven test done with laboratory scales, it probably wasn't much of an accuracy test.

[David Epperson]

Not to put any of these meter manufacturers in a bind or anything but most of these look to be "just" specialised ohmeters. So IF one had charts (Excell files) of resistence per inch for various species at various points of moisture content with corrections for temperature. THEN all you would need is an accurate multimeter/ohmeter to read the MC. I'm sure that for the professional wood shop the specialised meter is MUCH faster and easier - but for the "hobbyist" who already has a multimeter, this might be an acceptable solution. But where would one find the information to compile the charts? Particularly on non-standard species...Like say Bradford Pear (just to bring the wood I have into it).

[Charlie Plesums]

Think about it, how accurate do you really have to be? Does a couple of percent really matter in most shops? Harbor Freight has this one on sale now for 19.99

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=2757

George
I bought one of these, and it gave such inconsistent results, the 50% of the time when it worked at all, that I took it back. All the units on the shelf looked like they had been returned. Maybe my estimate isn't accurate. Maybe I should say the 25% of the time it worked at all.

[James Biddle]

...Particularly on non-standard species...Like say Bradford Pear (just to bring the wood I have into it).

Good point. How do your meters handle the non-standard species? How many of your meters have a chart or setting for Bradford Pear, for example? I'm guessing this is something that separates the better meters from the rest.

[Bob Smalser]

But where would one find the information to compile the charts? Particularly on non-standard species...Like say Bradford Pear (just to bring the wood I have into it).

Go to the USDA Wood Handbook and pick a species of the same specific graviity and type. For example, Pacific Madrone isn't in most charts but is a diffuse-porous species with a specific gravity of .65. American Beech, a diffuse-porous species of SG .64, will give the around the same moisture content readings.

As Bradford Pear apparently hasn't been tested, using apple will be close, and the FPL mentions pear wood in it's tests of apple wood:

http://www2.fpl.fs.fed.us/TechSheets/HardwoodNA/htmlDocs/maluseng.html