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Joe Suelter
11-09-2003, 6:44 PM
Hi guys. I'm in search for a sub-panel box that has fault protection built in. I know I've seen them somewhere, just can't think of where. I'm at a friends house now going over plans to build him a dedicated computer room (very multiple computers), and we thought that would be a nice feature. We are hiring an electrical contractor to do the wiring, but to save some money we are running all this stuff. As always, any help you can provide would be appreciated.

Paul Kunkel
11-09-2003, 6:53 PM
Hi guys. I'm in search for a sub-panel box that has fault protection built in. I know I've seen them somewhere, just can't think of where. I'm at a friends house now going over plans to build him a dedicated computer room (very multiple computers), and we thought that would be a nice feature. We are hiring an electrical contractor to do the wiring, but to save some money we are running all this stuff. As always, any help you can provide would be appreciated.

Fault Protection?? Do you mean GFI or Surge arrest? The best way is to get a UPS by APC or Belkin that has automatic voltage regulation. They also have $10,000 equipment guarantee.

Joe Suelter
11-09-2003, 6:56 PM
Sorry, Paul, I mean surge protection. I know I've seen them that have the protector on the bottom of the panel. I may be thinking of a "main" panel, not a sub-panel. Thought maybe I'd get lucky. I guess I'll check the Grainger catalog when I get home. Thanks Paul for your quick reply.

Jim Becker
11-09-2003, 7:28 PM
Go to a "real" electrical supply house in your area and discuss with them what your friend's needs are. They generally will have better selection and a lower price than places like Granger that charge top nut for everything...unless you have some form of big discount available.

John Christiansen
11-09-2003, 8:09 PM
Hi guys. I'm in search for a sub-panel box that has fault protection built in. I know I've seen them somewhere, just can't think of where. I'm at a friends house now going over plans to build him a dedicated computer room (very multiple computers), and we thought that would be a nice feature. We are hiring an electrical contractor to do the wiring, but to save some money we are running all this stuff. As always, any help you can provide would be appreciated.


I can't help much, other than to say, I know Cutler-Hammer makes breaker panels with surge suppression.

We have over a dozen of them on campus. But these are big 100 breaker units. I'd bet that they make smaller ones for residential use though.

Paul Kunkel
11-09-2003, 9:54 PM
Sorry, Paul, I mean surge protection. I know I've seen them that have the protector on the bottom of the panel. I may be thinking of a "main" panel, not a sub-panel. Thought maybe I'd get lucky. I guess I'll check the Grainger catalog when I get home. Thanks Paul for your quick reply.

MSCdirect(I think) has 'whole house surge protector' for panel instalation @ $57.00
I have one for the shop & one on the house box. They work-when the guys came to replace my leaking transformer, they didn't hook up the neutral right and half the shop 120v circuits went 200v. Only thing fryed was the surge protector and the elec coop paid for a new one!

Joe Suelter
11-09-2003, 10:52 PM
Yep, Paul, you nailed it on the head. I guess I was asking wrong. Whole house surge protection is what we are after here. I thought that it was a part of the panel...after looking, it appears to be a seperate box. At $57 seems like a pretty good investment. Anyone use one of these in their home/shop/office?

Howard Norman
11-09-2003, 11:34 PM
Yep, Paul, you nailed it on the head. I guess I was asking wrong. Whole house surge protection is what we are after here. I thought that it was a part of the panel...after looking, it appears to be a seperate box. At $57 seems like a pretty good investment. Anyone use one of these in their home/shop/office?
Yes, I have one of them installed at my house in Prescott. If I recall correctly it is made(sold) by Square D. They will protect for spikes coming in over the utility line but not direct hits from lightning. DAHIKT

Howard

Joe Suelter
11-09-2003, 11:43 PM
That's good information to know, as this is why he wants it. He has lots of computer equipment to save in the event of a lightning strike. I think he is going to ask his electrician to see if he knows anything about these. I figured that one of these would be better than individual surge protectors. Maybe I'm wrong.

Howard Norman
11-10-2003, 12:05 AM
That's good information to know, as this is why he wants it. He has lots of computer equipment to save in the event of a lightning strike. I think he is going to ask his electrician to see if he knows anything about these. I figured that one of these would be better than individual surge protectors. Maybe I'm wrong.
After I lost a few hundred dollars of equipment due to a direct lightning strike I installed individual surge protectors on sensitive, and expensive, equipment. I still think that the whole house protector is worthwhile to protect one if a spike occurs on the utility companys lines away from the house.

Howard

Paul Kunkel
11-10-2003, 11:09 AM
After I lost a few hundred dollars of equipment due to a direct lightning strike I installed individual surge protectors on sensitive, and expensive, equipment. I still think that the whole house protector is worthwhile to protect one if a spike occurs on the utility companys lines away from the house.

Howard
The one I'm talking about is from Intermatic. The best thing for a computer(I reiterate) is an uninteruptable power supply(UPS) that has surge for phone line & power, power regulation(protects against brownouts), and a replaceable recharging battery with automatic shutdown. Research APC or Belkin. If something does get through and fries the equipment they guarantee it.

Ken Garlock
11-10-2003, 11:42 AM
on the "whole house" surge protector. I asked my electrician about them and he said he would not put one in. In addition, our facilities manager for the IT group at TI said that they would not use them because they wear out and quit protecting after multiple surges. (He didn't say what comprised multiple surges.) I agree that an INTERACTIVE UPS is the way to go. You can get them from small desk top units, up to thousands of volt-amps.

We had a "good" electrical storm this summer. It blew out 2 fuses on the 7200V line leading up to our house, but didn't harm the computers and appliances in our home. I had a UPS on my computer and firewall, and a Trip-Lite Isobar surge protector on my wife's computer. The electric co-op had to come by and replace the fuse links to get us going again.

Lastly, NOTHING will stop lightning.

Paul Kunkel
11-10-2003, 7:46 PM
[QUOTE=Ken Garlock]on the "whole house" surge protector. I asked my electrician about them and he said he would not put one in. In addition, our facilities manager for the IT group at TI said that they would not use them because they wear out and quit protecting after multiple surges. (He didn't say what comprised multiple surges.)

in my first answer I stated that the whole house surge arrestor saved me at the shop. All the lights would have been lost, plus more. Instead the surge arrestor lost a leg and the Elec co. replaced it. It has 2 indicator lights on it to indicate if the 2 legs are working. Your electrician is entiled to his opinion, but lets not miss the obvious!

Dennis Peacock
11-10-2003, 8:48 PM
If you want "true" protection from surges as well as lightening, then go and talk with most any recording studio worth their weight and they will tell you that good "true" protection is gonna cost you in the 10's of thousands of dollars.

I ain't gonna get in this arm wrestling match. Just install a dedicated ground for the computer circuits and put them on a GFI circuit. All the rest, you are at the mercy of the power company and any passing storm in your area.

Don Abele
11-10-2003, 9:52 PM
I'm going to echo a few other posts and maybe add my 2 cents as well. A whole house protector will do just that, protect the house - but only from conditions on the incoming power line. As was pointed out, if lightening hits a portion of the house which can conduct to those outlets the computers are plugged into, then that arrestor in the breaker box will do nothing.

With that said, here's what I have. I currently have 4 dedicated desktops, a server, and a laptop in my "computer room". These are supplied their power via UPS's. I have 2 1500 volt units protecting the 4 desktops, a 700 volt unit protecting the server, and a 450 volt unit protecting the laptop - all are the Smart-UPS variety made by APC. They all have replaceable batteries (which typically need to be changed about every 3-5 years). These units will protect the computers from anything, as any change in the line condition will cause it to disconnect from the line service and go to battery. About the only thing I could think of that would get past it is if a bolt hit the computers directly. I have used this setup for many years, through many lightening storms, brown and black outs, and have never had any problems with my computers.

I also have a very extensive home theater system. For it, I use a UPS and an automatic votalge stablizer (both by Monster Power) to ensure crisp clean power to the components and line protection.

Be well,

Doc

Joe Suelter
11-11-2003, 2:48 AM
Thanks for the suggestion guys. Really helps out a lot. I'm not too familiar with them, I just knew that I've seen them out there before. We know that lightning does some pretty strange things. At this point, I think I'll leave it up to him, as it's his house and project. I was at his house the other night and couldn't find what I was looking for so I decided to log on here to see if ya'll new anything about them or not, which you clearly do. Thanks again for all your help.