Airless rather than HVLP?

[John Russell]

My wife just completed a finishing class at a local Jr. college. The instructor has a good reputation and works independently on a range of furniture, restoration, and painting projects. He recommends using an airless for finishing furniture projects rather than an HVLP. I thought most folks who build furniture or cabinet projects use HVLP rather than airless. Am I wrong?

[Jason Roehl]

Most probably do use an HVLP for furniture finishing. I'd say the biggest reason is the cost, as you can get into a decent HVLP for a lot less than a good airless. Airless sprayers, when used properly, can produce LESS overspray and when used with the right tip, an equally fine finish as an HVLP, with no thinning. So they do have their advantages. The downside is the amout of material needed to get up and running. Even a small airless with a standard 1/4"x50' hose will hold a quart or so of material in the pump and line.

[John Russell]

Thanks Jason, that is a helpful reply that puts some new information on the table. Since I have to paint my house and a a shop that will get built next spring, an airless might make sense. Is 2k a price that would get me into an airless for furniture that would also do double duty for paint? Or, are these just two different applications with different hardware requirements?

Thanks!

[Jim Becker]

John, pay careful attention to Jason's comment about how much finish is needed just to "prime" the airless system. On that alone, I could see it for house painting and even a production shop working with furniture, but for "projects", that's going to increase the materials cost substantially since you will likely lose a lot of that extra finish in the cleaning process after spraying. One or more HVLP guns make more sense to me for small to mid-size projects in a non-production environment.

[John Russell]

My wife and I both do woodworking ... she knows more than I do at this point since she has taken the classes, including the finsihing class.

Reading forums,etc.... I thought the HVLP would work fine for a 8-10 projects a year, but she came home with stories of people being more happy spraying finishes using an airless, apparently because of having to use multiple coats with HVLP to get the desired finish while the airless achieved the results with fewer coats.

I am a rag and paint brush kind of guy, but I see the need for some spray finishes and I would rather buy once rather than multiple times, so .... have to think on this one some more.

[Jason Roehl]

I should clarify a bit on the amount of finish lost using an airless. There is a way to reduce the amount of finish to prime the system--that would be to use a 3/16"x25' hose or shorter with the sprayer (I've never used that small of a setup, but I'd guess you'd be in the 1/2-3/4 qt range to prime). Airless sprayers don't like such small diameter and short hoses, but for the thinner finishes on furniture, it wouldn't be much of a problem (it has to do with pressure fluctuations, fluid flow and other dynamics). Also, if you clean out with a compatible thinner first, you can push most of the finish out of the line back into your material can.

Our big airless rig with 2 hoses, each 50' of 3/8" plus 50' of 1/4" for a total of 200' of hose takes about 3 quarts to prime just one hose, and probably about a gallon to prime both. And that's only a medium-sized airless sprayer. (1 gpm max).

[Dennis Peacock]

I can see where a good airless setup would have it's benefits, but also consider "flexibility" with an HVLP setup. You get to control how much finish you put on a piece via multiple coats. Many solvent based finishes go on much better when thinned and sprayed in lighter coats. Also, with solvent based finishes you would greatly increase your chances of getting "orange peel" effect by laying down too much finish at once.

Also with an HVLP setup you can spray toners, dies, shellac, lacquer, and even spray latex and oil based paint with the correct air caps when properly thinned. In my own mind, it's not how fast I can get a finish on, but how well I can succeed in getting a nice finish on the piece I'm working on finishing.

Lot's of choices out there and lots of opinions from many different people's persepctives. I wish you the best of luck on your decision.

[Tim Sproul]

but she came home with stories of people being more happy spraying finishes using an airless, apparently because of having to use multiple coats with HVLP to get the desired finish while the airless achieved the results with fewer coats.


Be careful with that. My understanding (I've never sprayed airless and only have a small amount of experience with HVLP) with finishes is that the finish determines the maximum thickness you can apply, not the equipment or method of application. If you take nitrocellulose lacquer and try to spray on a 10 mil wet coat, it will run all over the vertical surfaces and likely won't dry properly on the horizontal surfaces. Same probably holds true for most finishes.

My understanding is that airless can lay down finish a lot faster than HVLP...which is great for doing really large projects (think someone who does interior trim work....ceilings, paneling, wainscotting and such) or for production work. I don't think you can spray thicker coats of the same finish simply because it is being applied with an airless sprayer vs. HVLP sprayer. So, you can get done with a single coat faster when using airless compared to HVLP but you will still need to apply the same number of coats. This can save considerable time for many projects.

Say for a large chest of drawers it takes you 30 minutes to spray with HVLP....and you want to build the lacquer up to 10 coats. That is 300 minutes......but if you did airless and it only took 10 minutes to apply each coat, you could save 200 minutes or over 3 hours of time. Or how about if you've paneled a library - perhaps 800 sq ft of woodwork to finish....an airless will knock out each coat quickly while you might still being applying one coat after a couple hours with HVLP...and in that case you might apply 4-5 coats in a single day with airless where as you might get in 2 coats with HVLP. Here, you'd be done in a day with airless but need 2-3 days with HVLP. Definitely a time saver in that situation.

The other thing to keep in mind is that because airless can lay down finish so much faster than HVLP, you can also mess things up that much faster and over a much larger area. I suspect that using an airless also requires a bit more skill development, largely because of the speed. The added investment in time and training and skill development may not be worth the gain in speed for non production finishing or those of us who do more than apply finishes. Certainly, someone who focuses on finishing as their business is going to go airless.....but those of use who are luckly to complete one project a month... ...HVLP may be the better option.

[Jim Becker]

Tim is correct...it's the finish that determines max coating thickness. The statement from the store certainly holds true for house paint, but that's because other forms of sprayers can't deliver enough finish in many cases to get to the limit for that particular finish. When you get involved in lacquers, shellac, water borne and varnish, you need more control over thickness to avoid sagging, running and orange peel. HVLP is still, IMHO, a better way to go for working with furniture projects.

[John Russell]

HVLP is my intuition about the option for the volume and type of finishes we are likely to use .... Since I need to do some house painting too, guess i will need both.
Thanks!

[Steve Dewey]

For house painting you can use a "utility grade" airless - I bought a graco "magnum 7" unit at Home Depot. Mostly used the power roller with it. Faster than by hand, but clean up takes a while. Used it to paint many rooms at a time in my rental property. I think I did 4-5 rooms 2 coats in 1 day (walls only). Cost $500.

For painting 1 room, it is faster to do by hand than to clean up the sprayer.