Sharpened spindle gouge, making boo-boo's

[Bobby Hatfield]

Hey guys, finally made a jig to sharpen spindle gouge and now having trouble when gouge first touches on spindle it hangs and backs up, hard, making a bad grove in beads, what happened, did I grind the angle wrong ? First time sharpening some old gouges I bought. Used them before,no problem,they were ok but dull. Turning redoak table legs. Need a lesson on turning I guess, I do flatwork mostly but have turned some. Bobby

[Bob Noles]

Bobby,

Can you post a close up shot of your grind. I believe you could get better help and advice if we could see the tool edge.

[Richard Madison]

Yo, Bobby,
Spent half a lifetime in other corner of your state (F'ville) about half a lifetime ago and loved it.
Meanwhile, can you post pictures of your gouge, side view and top view, and also your jig? Am no expert, but pictures would help others to diagnose your problem. Set the tool rest CLOSE to the work, touch the bevel first and slowly raise the handle until it starts cutting.

[Bobby Hatfield]

Thanks everyone, will make a close-up tomorrow, have a pic of grinding jig will post. Bobby

[Joash Boyton]

Often, the problem I have found, is if you grind the underneath too far back, it will not cut, I will have to see a close-up.......

Just keep it the same as you would normally would, maybe search the net, for profiles...

Joash

[Bobby Hatfield]

Here is the close-up of the grinding job on the spindle gouge. Bobby

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Bobby..........I don't see anything wrong with your grind. I have mine ground at a shallower angle with a sidegrind so I can use it as a detail gouge. After you ground it, did you try using a slip stone on it to take off the burr?.........I also take mine after grinding and stab it into a block of wood and wiggle it to break off the burr.

Since you are an experienced turner, I assume you are presenting it tool on the rest, heel first of the bevel and then moving up to the toe of the bevel.....

You might try taking the burr off....and try again........JMHO...

[George Tokarev]

I don't like that kind of grind. My preference is a constant angle rather than a rolled grind. With the constant angle I have more help on the bevel, which is what keeps the gouge from self-feeding or rolling and catching even when I'm cutting at weird angles. The one in FWW last month, attributed to Mike Mahoney or Stewart Batty is as close as you can get to my favorite grind on a cylindrical gouge. On gouges with a uniform thickness it's a piece of cake, involving placing the tool on the rest, bringing it to the wheel, and rotating left and right. Makes all points on the gouge equal, so the sweet spot is obtained by moving the handle.

[Frank Kobilsek]

Bobby
George is right that that grind is not the best but it is quick and easy to put on the tool and many of us used it when we started. But something you said in your post may be the real problem. The tip of the tool is almost never you friend. Try cutting at 1 oclock instead of the tip when going right or 11 oclock going left and I think you'll have better luck. At our club event last Saturday I had a teenager that I helped with this and I immediately thought of him reading your post. He had it so bad he almost had me doing it when try to demo the difference.
Frank

[Bob Noles]

Bobby,

I would grind the bevel down further rolling from edge to edge of the flute. Getting the bevel flattened out and extended further down the shaft reduces catches greatly and allows more cutting edge on the sides to work with. You want no more than 35 * angle on the grind and less is even better. Present the tool at about one o'clock "slicing" with the bottom edge of the tool and not the top or tip.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I don't like that kind of grind. My preference is a constant angle rather than a rolled grind. With the constant angle I have more help on the bevel, which is what keeps the gouge from self-feeding or rolling and catching even when I'm cutting at weird angles. The one in FWW last month, attributed to Mike Mahoney or Stewart Batty is as close as you can get to my favorite grind on a cylindrical gouge. On gouges with a uniform thickness it's a piece of cake, involving placing the tool on the rest, bringing it to the wheel, and rotating left and right. Makes all points on the gouge equal, so the sweet spot is obtained by moving the handle.

Bobby,

I went and checked the Dec. 2006 FWW. The grind shown there is the one I use on my spindle gouge. I obtain mine using the Wolverine Vari-grind. I must have been half asleep when I read that issue. Didn't even notice the article.

[Andy Hoyt]

Is it just me or does Mr. Hatfield's gouge look an awful lot like a bowl gouge? I can't stop staring at that deep flute. Here's his pic right side up.

52485

[Bill Boehme]

Is it just me or does Mr. Hatfield's gouge look an awful lot like a bowl gouge? I can't stop staring at that deep flute. Here's his pic right side up.

52485

I believe that you are right, Andy. And it is hard to tell from the angle, but it looks like there may be a bit of protruding wings at the tip -- in other words, the nose has been ground too much. A straight down shot of the top of the gouge would help.

Also, if this is the first time that the tools have been sharpened then I highly suspect that he has been turning with dull tools and does not have the right technique for using sharp tools.

Bill

[Bobby Hatfield]

That could be a bowl gouge, I don't know the difference, I bought the two lathes and all the tools for the shop, from a couple guys that quit turning before they started, they had more money than desire to really work at wood turning. The tools were sharpened when I got them, or at least had been sharpened at one time, I don't think they had a grinder. I just made a wooden copy of the Wolverine grinding jig and used my high speed gray wheel grinder, may purchase a slow-speed with some white wheels and the real jigs later if I keep the lathes for the garage when I sell the shop. My experience is very limited in wood turning, in my other life a surface grinder, metal lathe and vertical mill along with die sets waiting to be sharpened or repaired is where most of my experience was. My approach may be off with a sharp tool, not used to that, I do use the side or 11 to 1 O'clock tilt of the tool but may have a bad habit or flinching when starting my cut, ruined a few beads but cleaned them up ok. I finally finished the legs and its almost assembly time for the last job for this year. Thanks all, for your advise, hopefully I'll have more time for turning when I get this shop sold. Bobby

[Bill Grumbine]

Hi Bobby

Haven't seen you post for a while! Spindle or bowl gouge, it doesn't really matter. Usually when the wood takes hold and runs the tool in a way you don't want it to go, it is because you are cutting on the point. Try engaging the tool edge just off to the side of the point. If you are going to roll the bead to the right, engage the right side of the edge, roll and lift. You should see a dramatic decrease in catches. Good luck with it.

Edit in: I see Bob Noles has already mentioned this, but I will leave it here as reinforcement for what he has already written.

Bill

[Dennis Peacock]

Bobby,

What you tearin up now? :p
Nice lathe you got there. I see you still have the shop. Been missing you around these parts.

I'd have to agree with Andy...it does look like a bowl gouge. Do as the others have suggested and start out away from the tip of the gouge.

Good to see you again Bobby my friend. :D :D

[George Tokarev]

Is it just me or does Mr. Hatfield's gouge look an awful lot like a bowl gouge? I can't stop staring at that deep flute. Here's his pic right side up.

52485

When the cylindricals first showed up they didn't grind them so far as they do now. The ones called "spindle" gouges now are perhaps 2/3 the thickness of full cylinder, if that. Makes it possible to get closer to the profile so well-proven on the old forged gouges, where the outside matches the inside. If it's an old gouge, could easily be the difference.