portable sawmill

[Karl Stewart]

Does anyone have any experience milling their own lumber?I have been toying with the idea, especially when I look at some of the tall pine.
52361
There are some smaller mills that handle a 16" x 16" beam that have a 6.5 hp motor that retail for ~ $1700. When I consider the cost/ time factor of taking it to a local, it would pay for itself after the fourth job. Two problems: I have no need for four jobs worth of wood and I have no experience with this type of tool. It looks relatively simple but...

Thanx

Karl

[Ian Abraham]

I think the real question is 'Do you want a new hobby, sawmilling' ;)

If you are just thinking of time and money, take the easy way and pay someone with a big hydralic mill to cut up your logs.

If you actually want to cut your own wood, then yes you can. But it's hard work, especially with an all manual mill. YOU have to roll the log around on the bed to reposition it. There is plenty to learn about sawing, keeping the mill tuned and how to get the best yield from different logs etc.
The various mills pretty much work as advertised, but you do get what you pay for. Mostly in speed and convenience.
You will never be short of wood again though :D

Be warned it's addictive and a slippery slope once you start sawing ;)

Ian

[Robert Mickley]

Everything Ian said!!!! I found out its sort of like turning. You get the mill then you want accesories to go with the mill, First will be nice bright blue Logrite log cant to turn logs. Then your going to be looking at skidsteers or a tractor with a loader for handling logs, then your going to start looking at bigger mills. Next thing you know theres are stacks of lumber all around you , logs waiting to be sawed and people calling wanting you to saw their logs for next to nothing.

[Jim Becker]

Contact Woodmizer, find a sawyer in your area and have him/her do the work. It will cost you far less than buying your own mill...unless you want to get in to the business. If you do, be prepared for a lot of VERY hard work.

[lou sansone]

band mills are fun and work great. most do require some way of getting the mill to the log or the log to the mill. so there is always the logistics of that. I have a norwood and like it. if this is the only time your going to saw up lumber, then pay a local guy and be done with it
lou

[Homer Faucett]

Contact Woodmizer, find a sawyer in your area and have him/her do the work. It will cost you far less than buying your own mill...unless you want to get in to the business. If you do, be prepared for a lot of VERY hard work.
Quote for Truth. When you talk to Woodmizer, tell them you want someone who has a hydraulic rig. It's much faster, and less work. Since most charge by the time it takes to mill, the more you can help, and the better organized you are, the better.

In my experience, 8' logs are as large as most Woodmizers can handle, and 36" diameter is the biggest around (although I don't know how you would cant a 36" diameter log without a tractor and loader). I had over 350 bft of cherry and maple (combined) that I had milled in place for $125. I helped a lot, but it was less than 60 minutes from the time the sawyer pulled up to the time he left. I tipped him another $25, just because he was a great sawyer and a good guy. I still got all that wood for less than $.50 per board foot.

For me, it's well worth it to call and pay the reasonable charge . . . but interview your sawyers carefully before you commit to one.

[Russell Svenningsen]

About a year ago, I bought a chainsaw and Beammaker and began cutting up logs for my own wood. I also built the dehumidification kiln featured in a recent "Woodwork" magazine and having been drying it as I go.

While different than bandmills, my experiences have been overwhelmingly positive.

1. It's hard work, but not too bad. I like a good sweat every now and then.
2. I have been given a LOT of logs and have had a great time sawing thm up with friends.
3. I now have about 3000 bd ft. of lumber in my stockpile. Comprised of maple, (soft and hard), black walnut(most 30inches wide and 8 ft. long), oak, (red and white), ash(wide and curly), cottonwood and some pine. I paid a grand total of $0 for all of it, save the cost of gas, bar oil and chain sharpenings(probably $200.00, all told).


All in all, it's a great extra-avocation avocation, if you get my meaning. I find it quasi-cathartic and a tremendous stress-reliever. One can't contemplate serious matters when trying to concentrate on cutting lumber. I have found it very satisfying and LOVE that I haven't paid a dime for quality lumber in over a year.

Best,
Russell

[Marci Anderson]

Another option is to get a smaller mill (I can get the name of it if you'd like, I could only find one maker that makes them like this) that is basically a small bandsaw that uses a chainsaw engine to power it. This particular one has a capacity for 14" cutting, so it means that you have to fool a little bit with the logs if they're bigger by splitting them down the middle (or in 1/4ths if necessary) with a chainsaw to get them to proper size. My Dad and I used one of these for years and it worked great if you don't mind putting a little more work into it. Also, it's a bit cheaper (the last time I checked). It also eases you the whole new world of learning about how to saw, how to dry, finding space to put your lumber, etc. since you won't be able to crank out tons of lumber at a time. All in all, it's a great way to get lumber that you enjoy more and like others have mentioned, it gets more fun as you do it.

[Karl Stewart]

Thanx all. I think the comment about friends asking for cutting favors is the best advice. Ask LOML. I can't say no. I'll dig further for a local. The two true mills in my area require I bring it to them and aren't cheap. It's also difficult getting it to them. I'll contact Woodmizer and see if anyone makes house calls. The pricing some of you quoted is inspiring!

Karl

[Tom Andersen]

Take a look at

http://www.arboristsite.com/forumdisplay.php?f=62

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/milling/

[Greg Tatum]

Hi Karl....if it's a one time thing hire it out....it will be less $$$ and effort...the biggest savings in milling your own lumber comes from sweat equity....lots of sweat...it is labor-intensive work...kinda fun though:cool: I use a chainsaw mill as a hobby only but have some great lumber as a result.

Also....welcome Marci....the mill you are talking about is the Ripsaw mill...it's a very handy little mill....it was actually the first mill I used and got me hooked!! It was also availible as an electric model using an angle grinder motor...nice tool that was...anyway, welcome to the creek.

[everett lowell]

I too use a chainsaw mill, becuase I only do this once in awhile, hard work? Yes , but very satisfying to make a piece of furniture from a tree you cut down yorself!:)

[Steve Clardy]

I had a LT-30 Woodmizer for ten years.
Ended up selling it as after I got my cabinet shop up and running, I found I did not have the time to process my own lumber also.

Oh. Standard cut length on all their mills is 16' 6", except for the LT-15

[Ted Christiansen]

Karl,

What Ian said is right. I started down the slippery slope of sawmilling in May 2005 with a Logosol TimberJig. I then upgraded to a WoodWorkers Mill in Summer 2006. It has been a lot of fun, but a lot of work (dont have to workout at the gym).

I have cut a bunch of walnut, cherry, oak, pine lumber with this setup, and plan to for many years. My goal was to not have to buy hardwood lumber for my projects. I have achieved that. The nice thing about chainsaw mills is that the investment is low, so you can use it occasionally over many years without feeling guilty about it. I upgraded to the Woodworkers Mill because it is much easier on the body to use - can use standing up and you crank the saw through the wood, instead of pushing. You can also cut more wood in less time compared to Alaskan mill or Timberjig.

You can learn alot more about chainsaw milling by visiting Logosol's website and the Arboristsite website (milling section).

Ted

[thomas prevost]

Karl,
There are many sawyers near you with portable mills. Your local DEC forester can supply you with some names as well as Woodmizer, Norwood, and HUD-Son.

Have some one do your cutting for you. There is the cost of the mill, hand equipment, tractor to move logs etc.

There is also a large learning curve to cutting logs correctly and stickering them. By the time you get through the learning curve you have cut up two or three wood lots.

Local costs are about $45-50 hour for man and saw. You act as tailman. After set up about 200 bd ft. per hour for soft woods and 150 hardwoods for a full hydralic mill. will need to pay for travel time. This eliminates moving saw for 1 or 2 logs.

[Bob Smalser]

From a post I did for WBF:


For those considering this, I said on the first thread that mills are always tradeoffs. Carbide circle mills eliminate all bother about dirty logs and complex and expensive sharpening, but they trade off the ease of milling wide boards to do it....and they are 6 grand and up.


I've used them all, beginning with an old Foley Belsaw carriage mill on the farm. All mills are compromises. The type of sawmill that best fits your needs depends on the lumber you mill the most, and how easily you can handle the logs. Production depends on horsepower and log handling. All mills can be set up to overcome their weaknesses, it just takes more time and labor.

Chain saw mills produce wide flitches for the occasional sawyer. Logs are milled on the ground. Both milling and sharpening are relatively slow but make the least expensive milling package of them all.

Band saw mills produce wide boards from Eastern Hardwoods for furniture best. Logs have to be lifted or rolled onto a carriage. Sharpening is slow and requires major equipment.

Dimension mills produce framing lumber from large logs best. Logs are milled on the ground. Sharpening is fast and inexpensive.

Swing Blade mills adjust to follow grain the easiest to produce accurate boat wood from large logs rapidly. Logs are milled on the ground. Sharpening is fast and inexpensive.




Ronald D. Wenrich is a sawmill management consultant from Jonestown, Pennsylvania, USA. This Penn State graduate has logged timber, inspected treated forest products, been a mill foreman, procured wood, and is now a sawmilling specialist.

Q: Ron, there are dozens of manufacturers of portable sawmills. They produce a multitude of models and mill types. Can you give me give a quick review and cut through some of the confusion?

Ron Wenrich: I'm not familiar with all the manufacturers or the types of mills. But I do understand the basic concept behind each one. A lot will depend on how much cutting someone wants to do and how deep their pockets are.

Many start out with a small mill and move up to larger mills if and when the bug hits.

Chainsaw mills usually are no more than a jig set up on a log and attached to the saw. This system will keep the cuts uniform. Chainsaws should be fitted with a ripping chain.

Q: Why would anyone purchase a chainsaw mill?

Ron Wenrich: The main advantage is their portability and cost. If you only have a few logs to cut, a chainsaw mill may fit your needs. Cost is generally only a few hundred dollars - but be prepared to eat sawdust. I know of a few people who like the "Alaska sawmill". You can often pick them up on an internet auction like Ebay.

Q: OK, what about band mills?

Ron Wenrich: Band mills usually run with a small 1 to1 1/2 inch band. The mill is driven by a gasoline engine in the 12-25 horse power range. Mill costs range from around $2,500 for the low tech end on up to $35,000 plus for the more automated models.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4f/Band_saw_blades.jpg/250px-Band_saw_blades.jpg

For the low tech models, a track is put down and the log rolled onto it. The band blade is pushed through the log. Higher end mills will have automatic feeds and some hydraulics to safely secure the log.

An advantage of these mills is a very thin kerf. Saw blade kerf is about 1/16th of an inch, which will allow for greater lumber production from each log. These mills are pretty safe. You can turn your log on these mills with relative ease. This allows you to recover grade from the outside of the log and make a square beam from the heart.

The disadvantage here is that most band mills are horizontal mills. This means that every board or slab will have to be pulled from the top of the log. This can take a lot of grunt work. Also, sawdust will lay on your top face which makes it a little harder to see the grade.
It is interesting to note that band mills seem to be popular on the East Coast while dimension mills are popular on the west coast. A lot has to do with the log size and the way lumber is sawn. East coast has more hardwoods.

Q: I've heard that bands can be a major part of a mills expense and will cause down time and headaches. Is this true?
Ron Wenrich: Blade expense can be a little high. Bands run between 12 and 20 dollars each. You can get from 400 to1000 board feet between each sharpening. If you don't have a sharpener (they cost about $3500), then you have to send your blades off to be sharpened. A blade can only take 5 sharpenings before they are thrown out. You can expect blade costs to run about 15 to 20 dollars per thousand board feet of lumber sawn. Dirty logs can increase this blade wear problem and your overall expense.

Also, band mills don't do as well cutting the denser hardwoods, like hickory. Blades have a habit of wandering and some people complain about wavy cuts. Often this has to do with feed speed. There is an associated learning curve with each mill so you don't just jump in making perfect boards immediately.

The primary distributors of band mills are Woodmizer, TimberKing, Timber Harvester, Baker, and Cook. Woodmizer has regional offices in many parts of the country and has good customer service. Timber Harvester offers some very instructive videos pertaining to milling. I've heard people swear by each of these mills, as well as swear at them.

Q: OK, what about swing mills?

Ron Wenrich: Swing blade mills were developed in New Zealand, by a guy named Peterson. These mills sit on a frame that is put over the top of a log. They use a circular saw and the teeth are tipped with carbide. The saw can be set in a vertical or horizontal position and cuts in both directions. You run this at the entry level with a 13 horse power engine but can get up to a 27 hp model. There will be an automatic feed introduced for export in the near future.

http://www.petersonsawmills.com/images/asm_home2.jpg
http://www.baileys-online.com/images/LucasBlade.jpg
http://www.baileys-online.com/images/Lucas8.jpg


Swing mills generally offer a slabbing unit. This is basically a 5 foot chainsaw bar that will cut slabs. This is great if you have a use for wide tabletop planks.

Advantages of swing mills include the ability to edge your lumber before you make your final cut. This is a real labor saver. Blade cost is fairly low and sharpening can be done on the mill. The mill can be set up over the top of any log. You can cut it where it lays but you still have to carry your lumber out.

Disadvantages include a wider kerf. That means less lumber and more sawdust. Logs can't be easily turned. There is a limit to the size of boards and beams that can be sawn. The Lucas saw only has a depth of cut of 8 inches. To make anything wider, you have to make a cut from both sides of the log. Then you risk that the cuts don't quite match up and you have a step in your lumber.

Peterson of New Zealand claims to have developed the original design and is a primary maker of swing blade mills. They often bring containers of mills to the US and have seminars on using their mill. The mill will fit in the back of a pickup but it needs to be a big one.

The Lucas mill is is no longer associated with Peterson Sawmills and is sold by Bailey's. Brand X is another and made in Montana. New units cost from 10 to 15 thousand dollars US. Used swing mills can be found for half that cost.

Q: Dimension mills are a little different than the normal portable. They have major advantages but also have some disadvantages. Give us some help here.

Ron Wenrich: Dimension mills are multi saw mills. They have one horizontal blade and 1 or 2 vertical blades. The advantage is that you can make a dimension cut that can produce a 2 by 4 or 2 by 6 in one cut. These units quite often have large motors. Some run with a VW engine. They are somewhat portable but are limited when compared to other portable mill types.

http://www.mobilemfg.com/graphics/logs.jpg
http://www.mobilemfg.com/graphics/blades.jpg

Advantages are that these units feed on their own. You don't have to push the saw through the cut - the mill has an automatic feed. On the return, a dimension mill brings the finished lumber to the operator. The saw blade cost is low since sharpening is done on the mill.

With an added track, up to 60 foot logs can be milled. The disadvantages of using this sawmill type include turning logs and maximum board size and kerf.

Dimension mill manufacturers include Mobile Dimension, Might Mite, and D & L Doublecut. The one I really like is Mahoe from New Zealand. It is small and portable.

Q: Ron, the final decision to purchase a mill just may come down to where the production and the pocketbook are in agreement. What kind of production can you expect from each type of mill?

Ron Wenrich: For production, a chainsaw mill can mill 200 to 400 board feet per day, a band mill can mill 800 to 2,000 board feet per day, swing mills can produce 1,500 to 3,000 board feet per day and dimension mills 2,000 to 4,000 board feet per day. A lot depends on log size, species and products being cut. For small timber, band mills seem to do a better job. For large timber, the circle mills seem to be better.

And here's how I move difficult logs in spots too tight for tractors and truck winches:

http://www.baileys-online.com/earlsFir.htm

http://www.baileys-online.com/EARLS_FIR/image007.jpg

A winch or comealong can be tunneled beneath the log to roll it.

http://www.baileys-online.com/EARLS_FIR/image009.jpg

And the farm jack and wedges can move almost anything with precision.

[Homer Faucett]

Wow, Bob, thanks for the helpful post! I like the link to your Douglas Fir shindig!

[Robert Mickley]

As usual Bob comes through. I only disagree with one thing


Sharpening is slow and requires major equipment.

All it takes is a cardboard box :D I buy woodmizer blades and send them back on the resharp program. If memory serves me right it runs me about $85 to get ten blades done. I have sharpened them here in a pinch but it isn't worth the effort. WM has all the right stuff. In fact they get sharpened on the same machines that make their new blades. So they come back just like new. Granted I'm a small time operator so my time is best spent doing other things.

In my dreams I would like to have a swing mill to square up large logs then move the square can't to the band mill, but like I said thats in my dreams:rolleyes:

[Fred Voorhees]

I'll say this......if I had money to burn and the proper kind of property to do so, I would have a Woodmizer sawmill! I have watched these babies in action and have been mesmerized. Pretty awesome to watch a tree become lumber on the hoof.

[Ian Abraham]

Sharpening is slow and requires major equipment.

Well a week is slow, and Woodmizer has some pretty major equipment to do the job ;) But I understant what you are saying, getting your blades sharpened isn't a big problem, still more work / $ than a swingblade though.

Cheers

Ian

[Robert Mickley]

More dollars, yes, more work? ehhhh maybe.

IF I was buying new, I would probably buy a swing mill. But I doubt I'm ever gonna buy a new one.

[Charles McKinley]

I would like to see a swing blade work some time.

I would really like to get one but at $0.15 a bf I can get a lot of milling done for the cost of even a used mill.

For the occasional 30+ inch tree that is in the middle of the swamp where you could get a swing blade in and the boards out a few at a time it would be nice.

[Bob Smalser]

I would like to see a swing blade work some time.



Call Bailey's and see if any are nearby. But here's how they work:

http://www.baileys-online.com/earlsFir.htm

[Todd Crow]

Like Ian said, having a sawmill is a slippery slope. It can turn into buying a lot of accessories, and fun for me. It's neat to me to see a round tree get turned into usable lumber. As Thomas said there is a steep learing curve to running a sawmill and keeping it in tune, not to mention getting good lumber out of your logs.

My brother and I started with a Foley-Belsaw M-14 circle sawmill that we powered off of a farm tractor. We are lucky that our parents have a farm with trees and tractors that we can use to get the logs, and move then around. We used the mill outside for a few years, then we built a building over the mill. We found a larger blade for the mill around that time as well (50"). The next year we bought an dedicated engine for the mill, and added hydraulics to the mill. We are now looking to upgrade to a bigger/heavier mill. Something along the lines of a American sawmill. As I said, a slippery slope.

You can check out our sawmill here (http://www.crowsnest.us/sawmill/sawmill.htm)

Todd

[Robert Mickley]

I would really like to get one but at $0.15 a bf I can get a lot of milling done for the cost of even a used mill..

I wouldn't even uncover the mill for $0,15 a BF.

[Jack Dickey]

Nice stuff there Todd , your uncles restored cat is nice !!

[Charles McKinley]

I hear you Robert. That is why I probably will not get a mill. It is the man just down the road from my Grandmothers. Big old circular mill that has been there forever that a couple of brothers run, 1000 bf for $150! This was just last summer.