Wood Selection

[Dennis Putnam]

I am designing a cabinet and was planning to use oak. However my boss decided "oak is just oak" so I am looking for alternatives (I can take a hint, if momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy). I have found a supplier that has natural maple and white maple. I don't know what the difference is between natural and white maple. So my question is what is the difference? How is maple to work with and how does it accept stain? Are their any caveats I need to be aware of? I am also considering walnut which I think is much more expensive but the walnut I've seen looks really nice so how is it to work with and stain? Since these are really expensive woods are they beyond the skills of someone that is probably and intermediate beginner? Thanks.

[Don Bullock]

Isn't maple just maple? Have you considered quartersawn oak or maole with some character i.e. curly, birdseye, tiger etc.? Just an idea. Search through and see some of the projects and woods used on them. It is amazing what kinds of beautiful wood is available other than plain oak or maple.

[Jim Becker]

"Natural maple" and "white maple" are likely things that the supplier made up. There is hard maple (a number of species) and soft maple (a number of species)...these are the general catagories for maple. Hard maple tends to be quite "white" as it's usually all sap-wood. Soft maple tends to have more variation in color as it's usually marketed with the heartwood included. (Both are "hard", but "hard maple" is "harder", if you are concerned with that)

That all said, there are so many choices. Don brings up some interesting alternatives to "just plain old oak". I'll add cherry to the mix as it's a beautiful product and is enjoyable to work with.

[Dennis Putnam]

Isn't maple just maple? Have you considered quartersawn oak or maole with some character i.e. curly, birdseye, tiger etc.? Just an idea. Search through and see some of the projects and woods used on them. It is amazing what kinds of beautiful wood is available other than plain oak or maple. Thanks for the reply. The operative word is "available", isn't it? I have a very difficult time finding retailers with anything other then oak. I'm not sure I can even get the maple or walnut yet. There is a wholesaler that carries it so I asked for the names of nearby retailers.

If I could find it I'd love to use tiger maple but the only supplier is more then 1 hour away and is wholesale only (they have no local retailers). You would think there would be a good selection of hardwoods around metro-Atlanta but there isn't (at the retail level). Of course Atlanta being impossible to get around, traffic wise, isn't any help either as retailers need to be nearby to make the trip practical. As for quartersawn woods, forget it. Not only don't I have any planers yet (:() but no one I can find sells that either, other then wholesalers. Why in the world would there be so many wholesalers here that don't supply any local retailers?

[Al Willits]

If cost is an issue, maybe take a 1x6" Oak board about 2 or 3 foot long and try several finishes on it, see if the boss likes any of them, maybe try both white and red oak.
We found white oak with a bit of Danish natural and water based poly ends up a nice finish fwiw

I was supprised at what a difference different finish's/stains made.

Al...who hasn't reached intermediate/beginner status yet..:)

[scott spencer]

Ash is a light colored alternative to oak or maple. It's got more of the natural color of maple, with an open contrasting grain more like oak. It works well and is reasonably priced most places.

Maple is more difficult to stain than many woods, though it's certainly possible. I'd suggest reading up on the process before trying it.

Birch and Beech are other light colored woods that work well.

QS white oak is very cool wood. It's moderately easy to work with, and is usually not outrageously expensive.

[Dennis Putnam]

Al...who hasn't reached intermediate/beginner status yet..:)

I wasn't talking about the transition from beginner to intermediate. I am talking about the transition from beginner-beginner to intermediate-beginner. In otherwords I'm pretty much past the birdhouse making stage. :)

[erik anderson]

"Natural maple is unselected for color at the mill and has a certain percentage of brown face. The other grade is probable white face and is selected for a clear white face on one side. They both are select and better grade with color being the only difference.

[Andrew Shaber]

Sounds like you're buying from Home Depot? They are the worst.

Talk to the wholesalers. They will likely plane for you. Their selection should be 50 or so species. Consider cherry, alder or ask them. You should only make one trip to the wood store for a project so just plan a saturday morning to get what you need.

Walnut dust is known to be very irratable. It is very beautiful though.

[Don Bullock]

There is a Rockler store in Georga. I have no idea how close they may be to you, but it's worth a try. They do carry a nice selection of wood in stock at their stores, plus you can purchase any other tools and supplies you need.

Rockler Woodworking and Hardware
6235 Roswell Road - Suite B
Sandy Springs, GA 30328
Phone - (404) 460-1000

[Dennis Putnam]

Sounds like you're buying from Home Depot? They are the worst.

Talk to the wholesalers. They will likely plane for you.

No Home Depot. They don't carry any hardwood to speak of and wholesalers won't even sell to me let alone plane anything.

[Dennis Putnam]

There is a Rockler store in Georga. I have no idea how close they may be to you, but it's worth a try. They do carry a nice selection of wood in stock at their stores, plus you can purchase any other tools and supplies you need.

Rockler Woodworking and Hardware
6235 Roswell Road - Suite B
Sandy Springs, GA 30328
Phone - (404) 460-1000

Thanks but that is pretty far from me. I did get the name of a hardwood store in Norcross from the wholesaler I emailed. That is a bit of a drive too but I plan to take a look if they have reasonable hours.

[John Lohmann]

I am designing a cabinet and was planning to use oak. However my boss decided "oak is just oak" so I am looking for alternatives (I can take a hint, if momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy). I have found a supplier that has natural maple and white maple. I don't know what the difference is between natural and white maple. So my question is what is the difference? How is maple to work with and how does it accept stain? Are their any caveats I need to be aware of? I am also considering walnut which I think is much more expensive but the walnut I've seen looks really nice so how is it to work with and stain? Since these are really expensive woods are they beyond the skills of someone that is probably and intermediate beginner? Thanks.
There's GA hardwoods in Buford,Suwanne Lumber Co in Suwanee & Peach State Lumber Products in Kennesaw if thats any help.

[Jim Murphy]

I found hard maple does not want to take stain, certainly nothing like the stained oak your boss probably has in mind. I found maple easy to work with as far as milling, cutting, planing, but have had problems putting screws into maple, even after predrilling with a larger bit than usual. The screws just shear off. If you're making cabinets, I would worry about shearing hardware screws in maple. If you use a screw gun, be sure the clutch is set so it slips before the screw breaks (always good advice, I suppose, but absolutely necessary in a wood as hard as maple, in my experience).

Walnut dust has never bothered me, and I like to work with Walnut a lot. Walnut's natural color is great, so I have no idea how it would stain (and doubt I will ever try to stain it).

[Ethan Sincox]

You said you were in metro-Atlanta, right?

Don't know how far this is from you, but there is a Woodcraft in Roswell, GA. It looks like that is just 20 miles from Atlanta. The previously-mentioned Rockler store in Sandy Springs isn't much further...

You should probably consider them as the two best viable options, if you're having trouble locating a source of lumber and you are seriously interested in using something other than oak.

If the drive seems too far, then make a Saturday or a Sunday of it and at least make it worth your while. Figure out the amount of lumber you'll need for a few projects, instead of just one, and make a lumber run. Better yet, turn it into a tool-purchasing trip as well, and get yourself a planer. While you're there (or if you call), ask if there are any local woodworking guilds that meet at either location, and make the trip in for a meeting. We have members of our guild that drive over an hour to Woodcraft for the monthly meeting - to them, it is most definitely worth the drive.

If you can find a meeting to attend, one of the first things you should ask is where everyone else gets their lumber from. If you luck out, like me, you might also find a member who owns their own sawmill and can get pretty much any domestic hardwood at rates which beat every retailer.

You could try looking up sawmills... Narjoe Timber and Supply, Us Lumber Group, and William Brothers Lumber are all located out of Atlanta. Give them a call.

Another option would be to find a local cabinet shop (they're there, you just have to find them) and see if you can buy wood from them or with them the next time they put in an order.

There are always on-line sources, as well. Check out the Woodworker's Source (http://www.woodworkerssource.net/) - if you buy project packs through them, you don't pay any shipping (or shipping is included, however you want to look at it). I've bought from them before, and they have fast shipping and their prices are comperable to any retail store you'll find.

None of the solutions you get might be as easy as driving just five blocks down the street, Dennis, so it really is going to come down to how much you (by way of your wife) want to use an alternative hardwood.

In any case, good luck.

[Steve Sawyer]

Since these are really expensive woods are they beyond the skills of someone that is probably and intermediate beginner?
As a beginner, Dennis, I'd make a couple of suggestions.

First, as someone else has suggested, walk into the nearest woodworking specialty store - Rockler or Woodcraft - and ask their advice as to a supplier. Given the amount of timber that I believe comes out of Georgia, there has to be a mill that does business retail. Here in Michigan, we have several retailers here in the Detroit area, including a millworks, and in central Michigan is a mill that sells retail, and also provides special pricing to our woodworking club. Also, there are independent sawyers that mill and kiln-dry small quantitities of locally grown timber that often cater to the specialty contractors and hobbyists.

Second, I'd recommend against stain. Part of that is a personal prejudice, as I think that most hardwoods (and many softwoods) have a natural beauty that stain just hides. Another factor is that depending on the kind of stain you're using, the results can be extremely uneven (and disappointing) depending on the quality of the surface prep.

I find (and I'm not that experienced a woodworker either) that good surface prep and finishing with a good wipe-on finish - BLO and poly, tung oil, danish oil - give a beautiful finish without investing in expensive spray equipment or risking the vagaries (for those of us inexperienced) of stain.

[Pete Bradley]

Have you tried http://woodfinder.com (http://woodfinder.com?)?

I found a good supplier pretty near me that I hadn't known existed. Woodcraft etc. carries some lumber but they're not cheap and the stock is very limited compared to a hardwood supplier.

Pete

[Mark Neighbors]

Dennis:

When I moved from the beginner to the "beyond birdhouse" beginner level, finding and buying wood (somewhere other than the Home Depot) was one of the most intimidating steps - but it doesn't need to be. I live in Chattanooga, TN and have found several suppliers here who, although they are "wholesalers" are happy to deal with small hobby customers.

Look up the Wurth Wood group, they are a regional company and from there website it looks like they have a location in Atlanta. I recently made a purchase from them here and they were reasonable priced and very easy to work with. They encourage you to wander the warehouse and select your lumber piece by piece if you like. I have also heard good things about GA Hardwoods which someone else here mentioned.

If you want to go mail order check out Steve Wall Lumber (based in NC) they have what they call UPS bundles which are about 20 board feet each and the price includes the UPS charge. The stuff I have gotten from them has been very good quality wood.

Most of all don't be afraid to call and ask questions, any place worth dealing with (IMHO) will be glad to answer questions and offer advice.

As far as wood choices consider hard maple (great wood close grain, can be a little tricky to finish), white oak, birch, ash. Pick up a piece or two of each, play with it and see if you get a finish that you like. Most of all, enjoy!

[Dennis Putnam]

Second, I'd recommend against stain. Part of that is a personal prejudice, as I think that most hardwoods (and many softwoods) have a natural beauty that stain just hides. Another factor is that depending on the kind of stain you're using, the results can be extremely uneven (and disappointing) depending on the quality of the surface prep.

I find (and I'm not that experienced a woodworker either) that good surface prep and finishing with a good wipe-on finish - BLO and poly, tung oil, danish oil - give a beautiful finish without investing in expensive spray equipment or risking the vagaries (for those of us inexperienced) of stain.
Thanks for the suggestion. I've seen peices with just an oil and poly finish but the result is highly dependent on the wood. If I can find something like tiger maple, I may just try that. If I'm going to be stuck with common oak then I'll stain to try and get something less ordinary.

[Steve Sawyer]

If I'm going to be stuck with common oak then I'll stain to try and get something less ordinary.

Uhhh... I dunno. Red oak is real purty, and white oak is too, particularly if you get it quarter-sawn.

Again, I have a bit of a prejudice against stain, partially on principle, partially because I've never gotten good results.

Something you may consider with oak is "fuming" it. If you've ever seen older oak furniture with a dark chocolate brown "stain", it was probably fumed with ammonia. FWW has an article online that describes the process. The only trick is that they recommend that all the boards come from the same tree to ensure a consistent tannin content, but the results are beautiful.

[Mike Cutler]

Have you considered "Mail order wood"?

I recently bought some cocobola from Mike Mastin,(Member of Sawmill Creek). He has a wood supply business out of Texas by the name of Curly Woods. Any way, the wood was purchased for a specific project I had in mind. Unfortunately that project is off the board now because of the wood he sent. It is so gorgeous and unique that it would have been wasted on the intended project.

I finally had to try internet wood ordering. The availability and supplies around my area are just insufficient. There are a number of internet woodsales places that are very reputable.

[Larry Fox]

To follow on with what Mike said, Hearne Hardwoods in Oxford PA takes internet orders and ships. Their inventory is fantastic and they are great people to deal with.

[Ron Blaise]

Then You need to find someone to sell you some rough sawed lumber. Try woodfinder.com for a supplier in your area. Be prepared to travel some to get the best deals.

[Dennis Putnam]

Have you considered "Mail order wood"?


Not seriously. It is expensive enough without the added cost of shipping something that large or heavy (can you really ship a sheet of plywood?). As a relative beginner, I don't want to ruin wood that is really high priced. As for quarter sawn wood, I'm not ready for that yet and I don't have the power tools to plane it to size.

[Steve Schoene]

Maple is difficult to stain. But it takes dyes quite well.

[Shane Satterwhite]

Try Peach State Lumber

http://www.peachstatelumber.com/home.htm

Shane