Just got my new tablesaw...

[Owen Gregg]

I just got my new table saw, the Craftsman OR 91552. I was impressed with the packaging, but disappointed to see the "Made in China" label. I was also not impressed with the manner in which the guys at the loading dock put it into the back of my truck. Despite all that, I was happy to begin assembling once I got it out of the truck and into the garage.

One of the first steps was putting the extension wings on and that's where I ended up stopping. I got the first wing on the table and laid a good straight edge across it to find out it fell about 1/16" from the seam to the outside edge. I was a little frustrated, but figured I could pick up some shims tomorrow and take care of it then. Then I put the left wing of the table on and noticed that not only was it about the same, i.e. NOT flat, but this time I also noticed that I could see a gap in the actual table top, not the wing.

So, I took both wings off and took my straight edge to the table top to find that I could "rock" a 16" straight edge back and forth over the left hand miter slot, at multiple positions and angles, with four different straight edges. Considering this is the one I'm going to use the most, I am not happy.

My question is, what is a tolerable amount of "out-of-flatness" in the work surface? I don't want to be unreasonable, but I also spent a lot of money on this saw and I'm not going to be satisfied with what I currently have. I've decided to wait a day to cool off and also to find out whether or not I'm over-reacting to something that is considered an acceptable. Any insight is appreciated.

Thanks,
Owen

[Jim Becker]

Seeing a little light is "normal". Doing the "teeter-totter" routine with the straight edge is not. I am thinking you need to speak to the supplier about an exchange or a return.

BTW, many times cast iron wings need shimmed level with the saw table. Aluminum foil from your kitchen works very nicely to construct them. And you can't beat the price!

[Owen Gregg]

I tried calling the customer service line, but found out they're only open M-F 8-4:30. The store's now closed, so I'll try to to stop down tomorrow and see what they can do.

Thanks for the aluminum foil tip, that hadn't even crossed my mind! I think I might pick up a set of feeler gauges just to get an accurate idea of how big the gap is from one miter slot to the next.

*Also not excited thinking about picking up that 400# monster and putting it into the back of the truck again.

[Karl Stewart]

I too notice sooo much from China, especially cast items. I've read the reviews and even they acknowledge the trend. Even so, some have better quality controls than others. I'm a 3rd year newbie and without a doubt I use the TS the most. I bought a Rigid and have been happy since day 2. [ Day 1 was totally absorbed in assembly] The warranty is solid. The top was dead flat and luckily the wings were dead on. It is an investment. Well worth it.

Recent searches [from LOML] included a Grizzly tenon jig. Tops on my xmas wish list. Can't wait.

[glenn bradley]

Sorry, I forgot the translation for the 22124 zip code model number. I have that saw and I can probably save you some time. Don't bother going through Sears, go direct to the number on your owner's manual 800 897 7709. A gal named Colleen will probably answer the phone at Orion.

My top had a problem and Sear's answer was to send me a whole new saw . . . big pain. Once I used the right 800 number things went smoothly. They will probably send you a new top. Orion states their tolerances to be .01" across the surface. My second saw arrived with a top better than that. Had I called Orion first they would have just sent the top and I wouldn't have had to put her back on the pallet.

I had an extension wing problem that you should check right away. The wholes for the fence rails were fine on the top but were off on the wings. Turned out the wrong wings were in the crate. Swapped for replacements, all is well.

When I had a rough start, I almost just returned the saw. Another Creeker was very happy with his after getting it all set up. That and the reviews made me forge ahead. Glad I did. The cabinet mounted trunnions (unlike other hybrids) are sweet. The motor seems to have more than it's rated 1 3/4 HP and the Bies is built like a truck but very easy to adjust.

P.s. Since I had erroneously called Sears first they had a record of my complaint. This turned out to be an advantage as once I was sure I was going to keep the saw, I wrote them an email asking what they were going to do about my customer satisfaction level of zero. They comp'd me the shipping and then some which beats a kick in the teeth, eh?

P.p.s I used that metallic foil duct tape for shims. Worked fine and stayed put while I tightend things up. I am very happy with the saw for the price and really had no more trouble than I've heard from folks here with non-Craftsman purchases.

[Allen Bookout]

That's not acceptable. Send it back and tell them you want one with a flat table top. If they can't do that purchase a different brand. I tried to look that saw up to see the price range that you are looking at but cannot locate it. If we knew the price range there would be a lot of suggestions for a replacement brand and model.

I did not see Glenn's reply as I was off the site before I wrote mine. Sounds like he has good advice. However, I stand by my standard that the table should be flat regardless of what saw that it is.

[Owen Gregg]

Just got back and have mixed news. Good news first:

The table seems to be flat now. Looking a second time, I noticed a tiny burr along the top of one side of the channel. Carefully filing it off resulted in a what appears to be a flat top. I then attached the wings, using the aluminum foil shims, and got them where they need to be. Felt great, glad I was making progress-

Now the bad news:

I didn't recieve enough lock washers and I have any and every size laying around except what I need. Not bad news really, just inconvenienced by having to sort through all the packaging to make sure I didn't overlook them. Second part of the bad news is the lack of the template needed to mount the fence hardware to make sure it's parallel to the table. That stopped me tonight, as that is something I have to have, and already looking through the packaging twice, I was done for the night.

Still have to go down to Sears tomorrow, but despite a few relatively minor setbacks, I'll hopefully be making sawdust by week's end. I feel like a kid that unwrapped a Christmas present early and was told I can't play with it for a few days, now I'm pouting.

[Dick Aubochon]

Just got back and have mixed news. Good news first:

The table seems to be flat now. Looking a second time, I noticed a tiny burr along the top of one side of the channel. Carefully filing it off resulted in a what appears to be a flat top. I then attached the wings, using the aluminum foil shims, and got them where they need to be. Felt great, glad I was making progress-

Now the bad news:

I didn't recieve enough lock washers and I have any and every size laying around except what I need. Not bad news really, just inconvenienced by having to sort through all the packaging to make sure I didn't overlook them. Second part of the bad news is the lack of the template needed to mount the fence hardware to make sure it's parallel to the table. That stopped me tonight, as that is something I have to have, and already looking through the packaging twice, I was done for the night.

Still have to go down to Sears tomorrow, but despite a few relatively minor setbacks, I'll hopefully be making sawdust by week's end. I feel like a kid that unwrapped a Christmas present early and was told I can't play with it for a few days, now I'm pouting.

That template is easy to misplace. Mine was a piece of 1/4" MDF, which I found on the floor after nearly going crazy looking for it. I had very little adjustment time with mine. The wings although heavy fit very well.
Good luck.

[Owen Gregg]

Went to Sears today to get hassled by a young tool salesman. I asked if there was any way to get the lock washers and the template I needed, and his first, FIRST response was, "No."

After explaining to him that I couldn't finish setting up my saw with the template, he asked me which saw I bought. I showed him, since they had a floor model nearby, and the salesman told me that he was the one that put it together in the store and he didn't remember using a template to put it together. I said, "Ok, but there are specific instructions and illustrations in the manual that require the use of that template."

He dodged the question (Pretty fluidly, honestly), and asked what the other parts I needed were. Since we were still standing by the tablesaw, I simply crouched down and said, "The lockwashers that go on these bolts right here." Then I noticed there were no lockwashers or washers even on the floor model. He was crouched down with me at this point and said, "It doesn't look like you need any lockwashers."

I was a little flustered now and said, again, the saw and the manual require these parts. He said he could look on his computer for the parts if I had the manual. I looked at the identical saw we were standing next to and it had a "Take it Home Today" sticker on it. I asked him if there was a manual for this saw, as it would be the same as the one I had at home. He said, "No." I asked him if he would honestly sell a tablesaw that cost nearly $1,000 to someone without an instruction manual. There was no answer this time, so I told him I'd go home and get my manual so that he could research the parts I needed.

Upon returning, I asked for him again, and he took my manual to the back with him. He came out about 20 minutes later and said there was nothing he could do, I would have to call Biesemeyer, between 8 and 3:30 Mountain time. He did give the number, but then further explained to me that the part "may not even exist." I was irritated by this time and simply said, "If it didn't exist, they wouldn't stress its use in the manual or provide a picture and listing of the item."

His reply was, "The one I put together works fine." I had to ask then if the saw had actually ever cut anything. He said no, and then said no again when I asked him if it had ever, to his knowledge, even been turned on. With both "no" answers, I asked him how he knew it worked fine if he'd never actually even plugged it in and turned it on, let alone cut anything with it. Not waiting for an answer, I just turned around and walked out, disgusted.

I will probably keep this saw, but as I walked out, I knew that I would never buy anything from Sears again. And that's sad, because my dad is a die-hard Sears guy. But I feel lucky that it was me buying that saw and not my dad, because I don't think he would have handled it as cordially. Live and learn. Now to call Biesemeyer and see if I can contact a different person at Sears.

[lou sansone]

interesting story.... I am sure that after a little fiddling around you are going to have the saw up and running.

best wishes
lou

[Jon Shively]

I understand your frustration on Sears employees, reread if you have to, I stated, "Sears Employees". I will only go to one Sears store because the lady that runs it clearly admits she knows nothing about tools but will go to the nth degree to make things right. And this is a little store so she has to order things for me like my lathe. The big Sears store about 50 miles from me, a bunch of punk kids that are there only for a paycheck. Last time there, was in line, three people behind the counter, one line, and a guy asked for help in the tool aisle, the one kid called over the loud speaker for someone to help them then they laughed about it. Each kid helped one person in line in a rotation instead of utilizing the three registers and getting us out quicker. When it was my turn, my wife was heading for the door as she saw the steam coming from my ears, I told those three to restock the stuff I had in my hands and I would never grace that place again. But, my point, it isn't Sears problem, it is that store's problem. So try another store, you might be wonderfully surprised.

[Don Bullock]

... But, my point, it isn't Sears problem, it is that store's problem. So try another store, you might be wonderfully surprised.

Well said. Since K-Mart bought our Sears I have found the same problem at some stores. I don't buy from them anymore unless they havd a good deal that I can't fine at other stores. Fortunately I have three Sears stores within fifteen minutes of my house. I've noticed when I'm in the market for an expensive item that is pays to go to all three. It's often amazing the differences in prices at the three stores. Each store can have it's own sales in addition to the advertised sales.

[Justin McCurdy]

Owen,

Pick up the phone and call the parts helpline. You will have what you need within 3 days. I have purchased several tools in the past, including floor models, that were missing key parts and the helpline always has come through. I know you want satisfaction by weeks end, but maybe you can settle for just satisfaction. Have your receipt ready.

Good luck,

Justin

[glenn bradley]

Owen,
Don't bother with the "kids" at the store. Call the 800 number on the manual. Much quicker in the long run. IMHO.

[Ed Blough]

My question is if you have to do everything over the phone why not just buy a mail order saw to begin with? There about a half dozen saws out there that are as good or better than the Sears saw and you can order them over the phone or internet and be done with Sears.

As long as you put up with and or use less than satisfactory bypasses Sears has no motivation to change or fix the problem. Instead go back to the store where the punk salesman was, demand the manager and tell them your bringing back a $1000 item because the sales person gave wise answers and put the monkey to get it fixed back on your back.

I guarantee when people start demanding excellent service they will either get excellent service or the company will out of business. It is your call.
If you like being treated like that stick with it but stop complaining here. If you don't like it take back the $1000 saw and let Sears feel your pain.
Ed

[Mike Heidrick]

Many times though this $1000 saw is purchased for about $630-$730 and that is why so many people keep buying it. It is a "good deal" and worth the hassle to many people. The saw is nice and worth a phone call to get all the parts you purchased. I would also call Orion if you can find their number - they may be able to help you out with parts as well.

If you paid full price for the saw then plunk it right in the middle of the jerky's register isle and ask for a manager. Explain the situation and get your money back. Then go home and order a Timberline Jet cabinet saw package for about $1300.

[Homer Faucett]

My question is if you have to do everything over the phone why not just buy a mail order saw to begin with? There about a half dozen saws out there that are as good or better than the Sears saw and you can order them over the phone or internet and be done with Sears.

Ed

I understand the sentiment, but have a quote from the Mel Gibson movie, "The Patriot", stuck in my head. "Why would I trade one tyrant 3,000 miles away for 3,000 tyrants 1 mile away?" In this instance, the words are changed to reflect that you may just be trading lousy customer service down the street for lousy customer service hundreds of miles away.

At least I can load up the saw on my truck and put it in the store aisle when I've had enough with Sears. I can't say the same if I have to pay freight to return it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Sears here. I would just want to be sure that if I mail ordered a saw that there was good customer service. Even better would be good quality control right out of the box.

So far, I've been fortunate in that my purchases were fine out of the box, but I have (thus far) always bought near home so that I could easily return to request parts in person if assembly did not fare so well.

[Ed Blough]

I understand the sentiment, but have a quote from the Mel Gibson movie, "The Patriot", stuck in my head. "Why would I trade one tyrant 3,000 miles away for 3,000 tyrants 1 mile away?" In this instance, the words are changed to reflect that you may just be trading lousy customer service down the street for lousy customer service hundreds of miles away.

At least I can load up the saw on my truck and put it in the store aisle when I've had enough with Sears. I can't say the same if I have to pay freight to return it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Sears here. I would just want to be sure that if I mail ordered a saw that there was good customer service. Even better would be good quality control right out of the box.

So far, I've been fortunate in that my purchases were fine out of the box, but I have (thus far) always bought near home so that I could easily return to request parts in person if assembly did not fare so well.

Homer
I understand perfectly and that is why I don't often buy online or mail order I want to be able to look the guy that sold me whatever in the eye.

That said it seems like the problems Owen is experiencing are common to this saw and Sears. Everyone knows how to get it fixed. They simply call Orion and Orion sends out the parts that are missing/incorrect/broken. Their problem get resolved but the real problem never gets fixed.

I will wager if enough of the saws got returned to Sears due to missing or incorrect parts Sears/Orion would put enough pressure where it needed to be to fix the problem. But until then Sears/Orion are numb to the problem.

People cite the low cost as justification to put up with the problems. This may be a strange idea but why can't we have low cost and quality?
If we start to demand it, it will happen.

We complain of high prices, poor service and even lower quality yet we keep buying the junk. I contend nothing will change until we begin to complain with our wallets.

[Owen Gregg]

Called Orion today and they were extremely nice people. I told them about the problems I had and they volunteered to ship me a new top and extra lockwashers if I wanted them. They told me that I would probably have to contact Biesemeyer about the template, but they would also try to contact them and get back to me. They called me back less than 20 minutes later, saying they'd called BM and could have everything shipped out today. I told them to hold off for a day and let me take another look at the top so that I could decide whether or not I wanted a new one.

I did make the mistake of going back to the store. More than once on this thread alone (Should have listened, Glenn), I was told to avoid the in-store help and start with the help line. I thought they would surely have a few lockwashers and the template, seeing as they had the floor model. I'm anxious to get my first tablesaw up and running, and made a mistake I won't make again.

Believe me, if a true cabinet saw was feasible for me at this point, I would do it in a heartbeat. I got the saw for $799. I did my research, and the vast majority of people have been happy with this saw. What I glazed over was the hassles that come with initial setup, probably because I was excited and figured a few hassles weren't such a big deal.

I guarantee when people start demanding excellent service they will either get excellent service or the company will out of business. It is your call.

If you like being treated like that stick with it but stop complaining here. If you don't like it take back the $1000 saw and let Sears feel your pain.
Ed

Ed,

I can demand excellent customer service until I turn blue in the face, but I'm not going to make a dent. Let's face it, a large majority of "craftsman", myself not yet included in that group, don't go to Sears because their woodworking tools are largley unimpressive. With nearly all woodworking tools, you can find better and cheaper models from a wide variety of brands. By far and large, the majority of people that buy woodworking tools from Sears aren't as demanding of their equipment as the group of guys on here.

As far as complaining, you don't have to read it. It really wasn't my intention for this thread to turn into what it has. I was hoping to have pictures up by now. Hopefully, when somebody else does some research, they'll stumble upon this thread and actually take into consideration what I glazed over.

[Ed Blough]

I guarantee when people start demanding excellent service they will either get excellent service or the company will out of business. It is your call.

If you like being treated like that stick with it but stop complaining here. If you don't like it take back the $1000 saw and let Sears feel your pain.
Ed

Ed,

I can demand excellent customer service until I turn blue in the face, but I'm not going to make a dent. Let's face it, a large majority of "craftsman", myself not yet included in that group, don't go to Sears because their woodworking tools are largley unimpressive. With nearly all woodworking tools, you can find better and cheaper models from a wide variety of brands. By far and large, the majority of people that buy woodworking tools from Sears aren't as demanding of their equipment as the group of guys on here.

As far as complaining, you don't have to read it. It really wasn't my intention for this thread to turn into what it has. I was hoping to have pictures up by now. Hopefully, when somebody else does some research, they'll stumble upon this thread and actually take into consideration what I glazed over.

Owen I probably used a wrong word choice when I said "stop complaining here". I apologize. Your right I don't have to read it and it was simply the wrong thing to say.

But yes you will make a difference. First $799 is not chump change that is still major money, and as such it still talks. Most of the guys that are buying that saw are wantabe serious craftsmen. They would buy a Unisaw if given the choice but they don't usually have that choice.
The average home hobbiest doesn't know Unisaw from Bosch portable and they don't lay out $799.

I have talked to enough Sears sales people to know they are looking for the one or two guys that walk in and buy because of the sale. One salesman told me he has never sold the saw at full price yet. They canned the lower end because no body bought it sale or no sale.

However what is happening is Sears and Orion are learning you can get away with shoddy workmanship and the guys that are buying the saw will tolerate it. If Orion is so willing to send you the needed the parts why don't they solve the problem. Because most people don't even check. Missing a washer fine don't use a washer. Almost like the sales clerk you talked to.

I still think Sears needs to feel your pain before anything will ever get solved.

[Laurie Brown]

I've had nothing but problems with Sears to the point that I won't buy ANYTHING there any more. I would certainly never buy an expensive power tool there. When they told me it would take three weeks for them to send someone to repair my broken freezer in August and what happened to the food inside was my problem, they lost me forever. I went that same day to Lowes and bought a new freezer from them and threw away the Sears. And I have had MUCH better service from Lowes than I ever got from Sears.

[Owen Gregg]

I went back down to Sears today to get a complaint on record about the service I recieved from employees. When I called Orion later and asked for the top, lockwashers, and template, they told me that they'd been authorized to ship it overnight-they'd been contacted by Sears. I called Sears to inquire about it and they had also refunded $50 to the Sears card. Nothing but good news. It's very possible I cut wood tomorrow:D .

Ed, no hard feelings. I do come off as a bit of a whiner. After all the good news today, though, I'm back on rack to being very satisfied with my purchase.

I don't know if Sears felt any pain or not, but I did ask that the gentleman that spoke to me on my first visit be the one to take my complaint with a manager present so that he could dispute anything there in front of me. He didn't dispute anything, which is why I'm assuming Sears got on the ball. That doesn't mean I'll be buying anything from Sears anytime soon, though.