WW Guild Purchase Advice on 12" Jointer

[john lawson]

I need some advice on buying a 12" jointer. I belong to a Woodworkers Guild and we have been given a grant to buy woodworking equipment. The first piece is a SawStop table saw. In addition we are going to buy a 12" Sliding Compound Saw and a 12" jointer.

Our initial decision on the jointer was to buy the 12" Grizzly, model # G9860.
http://grizzly.com/products/G9860
We met for breakfast this morning and discussed whether to buy a Grizzly, a Bridgewood or some other brand, and more importantly, whether the jointer should have a Byrd head or some other type of spiral head with carbide inserts. Here is the Bridgewood http://www.wilkemachinery.com/default.tpl?action=full&cart=1165690214306180&id1=7&--woSECTIONSdatarq=7&--SECTIONSword=ww&--eqskudatarq=2354S
Since the equipment will be used in an open shop setting with many people using it we have been debating the merits of having a standard 3 or 4 knife cutterhead with HSS knives, or the spiral cutterhead with carbide inserts. Some people think it is better to have the carbide inserts for durability and ease of changing. Other people think the other way, that for an open environment with many different people using the machine that we should keep it simple and stay with standard HSS knives.

What do you think? Griz, Bridgewood, spiral head, Byrd other?

Also, what are your recommendations on the most durable and bullet proof 12" sliding compound miter saws?

thanks, looking for lots of advice here

john lawson Birmingham, AL

[Chuck Saunders]

Hi John,
One question that comes to mind is who will pull service on the jointer when that oops goes through. Replacing a few inserts requires less time and patience than replacing or even shifting knives.
Chuck

[John Kain]

That's a big problem. Others who might run a bunch of knotty wood through there (or God forbid, a nail) will hurt the blades. Who's going to fix them? I don't think there's anyway out of this problem in your situation. Hopefully you have some respectful guys/gals in there with you. For this reason, I would first buy a nice sharpening tool with jigs for planer/jointer knives...i.e...JET, Tormek with an instructory course on resharpening nicks and such.

I would have a very hard time choosing the GRIZ over the Bridgewood. Bridge has been noted superior quality in just about every review I've seen. If they are in the same price range, then I'd go with the Bridge easily.

For the same reasons outlined above, I would avoid spiral cutterhead.

[john lawson]

Chuck:

Good question, and one of the reasons for my post. Likely, a supervisor or "manager" in the Guild who has been trained and qualified will do the work. While this will make it possible for either cutter head scenario to work, which one will make better use of that person's time, especially if there is competition for that person's time somewhere else in the shop, say helping train someone on how to use a tablesaw or bandsaw?

Since we only get to make this decision once, I want to make sure we think it through and make the best one we can.

john lawson

[john lawson]

John Kain:

You are dead on with your question/concern. What we have to do is weigh the benefits of having a carbide spiral system which will be more durable, and if reports are believed will last many thousands of board feet before getting dull, and also easier to change when you have to index the carbide inserts in lieu of changing out a set of blades and then setting them with Oneway Guage or dial indicator. That is the positive. On the negative side, the inserts are expensive and if/when someone runs a piece of wood through it that has a nail in it, how many will have to be replaced.

The simplest answer is go with the tried and true HSS knife system. But I have been in shops where they did not maintain the equipment either because they were too busy or perhaps negligent, and a dull set of blades in a big jointer is not a lot of fun, especially if you are putting through a nice piece of figured cherry or maple.

The intent of the Guild is to buy good equipment and maintain it. Members of the Guild will have complete access to the equipment once they are "checked out" for safety and operating knowledge. And there will be someone who is a qualified instructor in the building anytime it is open. So, help will be available and some level of supervision, if that is the right term.

john lawson

[Mike Heidrick]

The Grizzly 0609 is $1890 shipped with HSS 4-head. Does that help the decision? This one is on my list.

[john lawson]

Mike:

The price on the 0609 is great! But the real issue I was asking about is whether we should get the spiral carbide head or HSS, and should we go for a Bridgewood vs Grizzly or other brands.

Sure is a good price, though.

john lawson

[Charles Grosjean]

Some people think it is better to have the carbide inserts for durability and ease of changing. Other people think the other way, that for an open environment with many different people using the machine that we should keep it simple and stay with standard HSS knives.

Without debating the merits of inserts vs. straight knives, in a shared enviornment, it seems the first priority is providing each user with a good repeatable baseline. Everyone hates coming up to a machine and finding that the last user nicked a blade and didn't do anything about it.

With a Tersa/Terminus head (and to a lesser extent Esta/Felder), blades can be replaced repeatably in minutes. A sharp accurately aligned straight knife is far preferable to the fanciest inserted head with a chipped or out of pocket insert (this is not to imply that one cannot correctly replace an insert, just that finding a nicked Tersa and swapping it is reasonably straightforward).

Unfortunately, this moves you into a new budgetary category whether you buy a turnkey package, or add a Tersa/Terminus to an existing machine.