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Jack Dickey
12-07-2006, 9:05 PM
I doubt there are many of us who do "Mistake Free" work ..
I'm working on a project now for LOML , a corner cupboard .. It has , so far 47.58 mistakes and I see all 60 of them ..
Everytime I look at something I have finished all I see are the mistakes .. I tell everyone not to look at them , and nobody else sees 'em ..
Reckon I have good eyes , eh ??

Mike Cutler
12-07-2006, 9:26 PM
I doubt there are many of us who do "Mistake Free" work ..
I'm working on a project now for LOML , a corner cupboard .. It has , so far 47.58 mistakes and I see all 60 of them ..
Everytime I look at something I have finished all I see are the mistakes .. I tell everyone not to look at them , and nobody else sees 'em ..
Reckon I have good eyes , eh ??

I reckon' that you also make some very nice stuff.;)

We are our own worst critics I believe. I made a shelving system for my wife and it took 6 months after I finished it before I could actually admire it. All I saw in the beginning were all the points I would have liked to have done a better job on. A years later, and I look at it now and say 'Damn. That's pretty nice"

John Kain
12-07-2006, 9:27 PM
Well, I think it depends on your standards.

For crappy pine wood projects, I'm pretty forgiving. I see "badness" all over the place and I don't care because there's not much I can do with knotted pine.

However...........

When I made a cherry table for my kids, my wife gave it a triple take. She sees a couple mistakes. I see at least 12. Granted I don't tell her and she's happy.

It happens, I guess!;)

Jack Dickey
12-07-2006, 9:35 PM
Well John , you make me feel better , cause this one is crappy knotted pine , as it goes with the house .. But I'm like you , with that stuff , you have to werk around alot of problem areas .. And I suppose if you can werk around all that and it still comes out decent you did good ..

John Kain
12-07-2006, 9:45 PM
Well John , you make me feel better , cause this one is crappy knotted pine , as it goes with the house .. But I'm like you , with that stuff , you have to werk around alot of problem areas .. And I suppose if you can werk around all that and it still comes out decent you did good ..

Amen to that.

Knotty pine sucks all the way around. In fact, I've come to the conclusion it actually ISN'T worth the money. No amount of money gets me to produce a knotty pine project again.

Why?

The knots risk a nick in my jointer and/or planer knives. That costs me time, maybe more. In fact, I've already sent my jointer knives off for a nick (and I'm sure it was from a big knot, and before I got a horizontal wheel sharpener......:))

My latest project of pine ( another toy chest ) nicked my jointer knives. So I had to spend the next day resharpening to eventually get a nice edge. No more knots for me. Too much effort for me. I'll skip the knotted pine (or whatever) from here on out!

Jim Becker
12-07-2006, 10:03 PM
I know I have learned to make nice stuff in my short woodworking "career", but the little (and not so little) mistakes often drive me nuts...I think it's natural to be one's own worst critic simply because we have a pre-conceived idea about what something "should" be yet through the process of creating it, become quite human and miss the mark. A third party may never notice, but we will. But one thing it's taught me is to slow down and I've been helped in that by the family circumstances I volunteered for that have radically reduced my shop time. Since I KNOW I can't get something done in the time I have, I'm starting to "sit back" a little and trying to keep myself from rushing. Why? 'Cause that's when most of the boo-boos happen. ;)

Jack Dickey
12-07-2006, 11:48 PM
Yep Jimbo I have learned that as well ( slowing down ) .. Makes it more enjoyable to boot ... Also gives me lots of time to ponder my next move ..

Jim Becker
12-08-2006, 8:38 AM
Also gives me lots of time to ponder my next move ..

For me, that's "ponder my next mistake"....... :eek: :D

Robert Mickley
12-08-2006, 8:44 AM
I am. No matter what I always see things I would have done differnt/better. The wife can usuallly find some thing I made a mistake on but she never see's them all. I usually have my cousin and his wife check it out. To date neither one have found anything wrong. Now I'm sure that some one who works with wood could find mistakes, as long as it passes the cousin test I call it done.

Nancy Laird
12-08-2006, 8:54 AM
My husband says that the sign of a great woodworker is NOT that s/he doesn't make mistakes, it's whether the mistakes can be fixed. Case in point: a friend is building a red oak dresser for his wife, and in jointing the boards for the sides, he got a little aggressive and the piece was going to be too narrow. So, he cut some 1/2" strips of Brazilian cherry and interspersed them between the oak strips. Turned out so well that he's making drawer pulls from the cherry, and the chest, night tables, and headboard will now have the same design. Mistakes turn into opportunities!

Nancy

Al Willits
12-08-2006, 8:57 AM
I'm going nuts as a newbie, most of the mistakes I'm making are part of the learning curve and I suppose I shouldn't let them bother me, but they do.
Made flower boxes for the wife, I was gonna throw them away and start over, wife love em, and like she says, sitting in the front of the house with flowers in them, they look just fine...I guess they do look ok that way.

First cabinet I made for the garage does stay on the wall, and hold a bunch of stuff just fine, but between the poor quaility of plywood and my wood working skills, I ended up painting it white...more learning curve..:)

Made a miter saw cabinet and that was a learning exprience, one of these days I'll get cabinet doors on straight...

First TS sled I made is now scrap and the second one looks like it may be a keeper..so far.

So what am I learning?
Well, for one, perfection may be a fleeting bird, that I may not be able to catch all the time...if at all.

This is a hobby that I'm suppose to enjoy, and I will try to enjoy the time in the garage, no matter how well a project turns out, mistakes and all.

Hopefully, some day I'll make something and just sit back and smile, pop the top on a Liennie and say, finally!
Until then....I'll keep making sawdust, learning, and enjoying my time in the garage.

Al

Jim Becker
12-08-2006, 9:26 AM
My husband says that the sign of a great woodworker is NOT that s/he doesn't make mistakes, it's whether the mistakes can be fixed.

THAT is spot-on, Nancy. No question about it! :)

Mark Singer
12-08-2006, 9:55 AM
When you make something ..you know every little problem area....and then you can take the time to fix them. My last sofa which was the paduak one....one of the legs in the back glued up an eighth inch proud of the 2 stretchers.....had I seen it during the glue up . I may have convinced it with a dead blow hammer to flush....it didn't happen. So I blended it with a block plane and scrapper and then I did a little less on the other back leg....it actually makes the piece look more hand built...no one saw it, when I pointed it out to someone they said "that is hand crafted furniture!" . When a piece comes off the assembly line it is so perfect it has no character.....and at the other end of the scale is real sloppy work that is not worth fixing. I shoot for perfection within reason....I know the level of quality that I am capable of and I try to keep it through the project, If things really start going sour...you will make mistakes because you are mad....stop! Start on another part and do your best work...then move back to the other part.
Somethings are not mistakes but normal adjustments that come with experience....on the cabinet I am building with the knife hinges...the fit of the doors is all important. So I leave the doors long and plane them to fit where they touch... You can't fix that mistake you can only know that it is likely to happen if you go for the exact fit...so don't.
On the same cabinet the knife hinges have a small spacer that seperates tthe leaves of the hinge...that space is supposed to be the space between the door and the top and the bottom.....I get a feeler gauge and plane till it fits using the gauge . If you go over you will see it... somethings you need to go slow on. I always want the knife hinge pin to be fully inserted in the other leaf....it it drops down it means it is a poor fit or you over mortised....cut a small piece of veneer and put it behind the hinge bringing up
These tricks come with experience and time and the closer you stay to perfect...the smaller the fixes become. The one thing I keep in my head is it is faster to do it correct the first time then to come back and fix it

This is very true....

John Hart
12-08-2006, 10:54 AM
....So I leave the doors long and plane them to fit where they touch... You can't fix that mistake you can only know that it is likely to happen if you go for the exact fit...so don't.....

You are an angel from heaven Mr. Singer.;) I always shoot for perfection on doors and I always fail. I've always assumed that it is because I have so much to learn that eventually I'll get it right, after I've failed enough.

This is a good thread.:)

Dennis Peacock
12-08-2006, 11:25 AM
ooooooo-man....don't get me started on this topic. I am NEVER satisficed with my work and often feel embarrassed to deliver anything I make to a customer because I know where every little flat is in the piece.:rolleyes:

Mark Singer
12-08-2006, 11:54 AM
Everytime I do something dumb , I ask myself what I would do differently the next time and log it away.... There are occasional surprises , but you can begin to refine the quality and work in a much tighter range where the repairs are most often the flaws in the wood itself. For example if you run a board through the router table and the end grain tears out....back it with a piece of scrap...then there is no fix reuired. If I am getting tear out at the planner after a pass or two...I move to the drum sander. Mistakes are often repeats of things you have done before and the same techniques will always yield the same result so step back and thnk what you can do that is different.
Everytime I make two of the same thing one always comes out better....to the rest of the world hey look identical...that is our intimacy with the work..

Kyle Kraft
12-08-2006, 12:26 PM
I struggle with this all the time. I am a perfectionist. I have learned that it's not necessarily a bad thing to want my work to turn out flawless, the problem is holding others to the same level of perfection that I expect from myself.

On a less philisophical note, usually I can hide my mistakes well enough so that other people don't notice them.......and if you wanted something perfect you shouldn't have had it "hand built"!!!!

Each workpiece I make is a testament to my many shortcomings as an imperfect human being.

Ben Hobbs
12-08-2006, 12:31 PM
We will never get better if we cannot see our mistakes. That is why we must dwell on them. It is certainly pathetic to observe someone who sees no problems with obvious imperfection. Ben

Ken Fitzgerald
12-08-2006, 12:40 PM
Seeing each of your mistakes is part of the endeavor to improve yourself and your skills. Correcting your mistakes so that they aren't obvious to others is often what separates pros from beginners. Learning to accept your mistakes will let you sleep better at night. We are all human.

Brett Baldwin
12-08-2006, 1:49 PM
I'm just thinking, how boring would it be to make anything you wanted to perfect every time? If we didn't have the mistakes that made us think, would it really be any fun to do this?

Earl Reid
12-08-2006, 3:48 PM
I don't have to worry about mistakes:D My wife always finds them:eek:

Earl

Chip Olson
12-08-2006, 4:13 PM
Supposedly, traditional Navajo weavers deliberately put a small mistake into every rug, because perfection is an insult to the gods. I remind myself of that occasionally.

I find that I am fairly good at fixing or covering up stupid mistakes. I certainly get enough practice. :-/

Jack Dickey
12-08-2006, 4:21 PM
Al you're correct , it's a hobby we should enjoy ..
If we try to be perfect ( each has a different perfect , depending on experience levels ) , then we probably would throw some high dollar wood in the fireplace on a regular basis ..
I often wonder when another woodwerker sees my errors if they're thinking " What an idiot , how'd he let that one pass " ..
This cupboard I'm doing , is tapered back in the upper half , and the outside edges have scallops between the shelves , and I screwed 'em up royally , but each scallop matches the one on the other side .. Brought it in , showed 'em to old woman , and said , " I screwed these up " , she says with a big smile , " looks fine to me " ..
Every mistake I make , I try to put away in my brain , and say " well I know next time that aint gonna werk " or " I'll know not to do that next time " .. And it's good cause we're learning by our mistakes , and improving our werk as well ..
Only problem is , I need a bigger slave hard drive , brains filling up fast ..
This is good , keep it coming ..

Al Willits
12-08-2006, 9:43 PM
""""""
I often wonder when another woodwerker sees my errors if they're thinking " What an idiot , how'd he let that one pass
""""

This being one of the reasons that the projects I'm doing now, I doubt I'll ever post them, leastwise's till they compare to some of the professional pieces I have seen here, by people who have taken this hobby to a higher level, and I'm not so sure I'll ever get that far, but we'll see. :)

Instead I just look at what I make and think that I built it, for better or worse, and as long as I'm having fun at it, call me a happy camper.

And who knows, maybe someday I'll look at a project and not see anything I'd change.

Al

Calvin Hobbs
12-08-2006, 11:58 PM
I always thought my worst critic was my brother Matt, who claims that critcism is his spiritual gift! I come in a distant second.

Cal