A new guy

[Hans Loeblich]

Hello all,

I'm new here so I thought I'd introduce myself.

I am 25, and live in Austin, TX. I live in an apartment with a small, one car detached garage that I plan to use as a workshop until I get a house.

I'm not only new to these forums but to woodworking in general. I basically have zero experience unless you count that shop class I took in junior high. Nevertheless I am interested in learning how to make my own furniture and such for myself and my family.

I have started collecting the most basic tools but lack the skill so far to build anything worthwhile. I got a taunton book about building things for your shop, such as a simple workbench, router table, storage, etc, so I plan on following most of those projects to get the most basic skills down.

The first project in the book was making my own set of sawhorses, which believe it or not was fairly difficult for me. The first one I made is a little wobbly :o, but the second one actually sits on four legs at once! At least I'm learning hehe.

I'm asking my family for (inexpensive) woodworking tools for christmas. I figure I could use some pipe clamps, a card scraper, earmuffs, awl, among other things. Any simple things that you would consider indispensible that I might not have already?

Any tips or anecdotes on how others got started in woodworking?

[Hans Loeblich]

Here's a list of tools I've got so far in case anyone is interested:
Makita 7 1/4" CS
Makita 2 1/4hp plunge router kit
Makita Cordless drill & driver set
PC biscuit joiner
PC orbital sander
cheapo Harbor Freight jigsaw
basic chisel set
a couple cheapo stanley planes from home depot
comb. square
tri-square
bevel gauge
some assorted small clamps
a small level

I'm probably forgetting a bunch of things, but that's mainly what I have so far.

Don't have a table saw yet. I just found out about the EZ smart, so I'm starting to think this could do the job instead? Would be nice since space is limited. I think my saw might be too dinky for it though.

[Jim Becker]

Hans, welcome to the 'Creek! It's a great community and I hope you enjoy participating.

A guided saw system is actually a very good idea for you to consider as it's versatile, accurate and doesn't take up space when not in use. The ability to adapt your workspace to the "process of the moment" is especially important in smaller shops. You already have a good start on hand-held stables...and I'm sure you'll discover they will do a fine job on many kinds of projects.

[glenn bradley]

I got a taunton book about building things for your shop, such as a simple workbench, router table, storage, etc, so I plan on following most of those projects to get the most basic skills down.


That's how I started. The first project I built was a rolling worktable with drawers and a couple large pullout bins to hold power tools. It was to be my first and last project built on the floor. That was a couple years ago and instead of sending it down the highway like I thought I would I've become very attached to it. It's tool storage, an assembly table, tool storage and my table saw out feed table.

Sounds like you're getting a good start on your tool collecting. The Makitas and PC's will serve you well. You'll get a resounding message here that I was a little slow to listen to. Learn from my recent mistakes:

1. Buy quality and you cry once, buy cheap and you cry and cry.
2. Buy things as the need arises; don't spend $300 on a scroll saw if you don't know if you'll ever use it.
3. You get what you pay for but . . . watch for deals!
4. When I spend for quality, I've learned that good money for good cutters (whatever kind) is money well spent.

I have some cheepo clamps but not many. I'd take 2 pair of Bessys over 4 pair of junkers any day. Crummy clamps can be made to work but they fight you.

There are quite a few Guided Circular Saw (EZ Smart, Festool, etc.) users here who feel it is the only way to go with a crowded shop. I'm sure they'll chime in. You'll find some really knowledgeable folks here and of course, you get stuck with me now and then as well.

Here's a link to my old shop but the worktable and the flip top stand are still with me.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=35938

Welcome!!!

[JIm McMullen]

Welcome, Hans. I know that you will really enjoy this forum--great people, lots of help and ideas and great craftspeople. I started just like you (imagine a lot of folks do) and just about your age (I'm 65 now). Just save the $ and buy the best equipment you can afford (they don't wear out and with care will last your lifetime and kids too -I'm giving my first Rockwell 10" contractors saw to my youngest son for xmas). I learned what little I know from trial and error and lots of reading. Make a list of all the things you need in priority order, then when you get them, start the list of what you want (not need). That's the fun (and most expensive part). I started with all hand tools, then bought CS, 1/4 drill, etc. My 1st major purchase was the Rockwell TS, then a drill press (cheapy, which I still have and use). Some of the best craftsmen I have met still do a lot of work with hand tools--a great way to build your skills. Start on real easy projects and things that are useful and fun for you to build. Again, Welcome to the Creek!!!! Oh to be 25 again. Jim

[Mike Cutler]

Hans.
Study design, Look at building architecture, furniture construction. Look at all of the different styles,and periods. Analyze furniture, and how it is made and joined. Spend a few hours in a Borders book store in the woodworking books section. Look at everything.Visit antique stores, and really look at furniture, you can learn alot about what not to do, and waht to do by looking at "antiques" What you build will to a large part dictate the tools that you buy.
Start building things for your apartment. Use simple designs. Shelving systems, end tables. coffee tables, closet racks, etc....
Mostly though, have fun.

By the way. A properly built sawhorse is not an easy thing build.;)

[Hans Braul]

Welcome Hans

Not too many others out there! (Hans's that is)

The current issue of Fine Woodworking deals with suggested tools for a basic starter shop.

Good luck!

The other Hans

[Mike Holbrook]

Welcome Hans,

I am updating my tools too. Although you will read here that there is no substitute for a quality Table Saw, and there isn't, you can do an amazing amount of work with a few powered and "Neanderthal" tools. Saw horses are a great place to start. I still have the ones I made with a buddy as one of my first projects. I am not saying how many years ago that was.

Put a sheet of plywood and a foam sheet on top of those saw horses and you have a great cutting surface for a good straight edge like an EZ Smart and a circular saw. The foam is sacrificial, so the saw can cut all the way through your work and only hit cheap foam. You can route, assemble, finish.... on the same table.

I am still working on my latest saw horses.

[Hans Loeblich]

Thanks for the warm welcome guys.

I can understand the importance of getting quality tools, but in some cases I still have trouble. For example I guess I don't know enough to tell how something as simple as a clamp can be good or bad quality.
What is wrong with pipe clamps that justifies bar clamps that cost 4x as much? Seems to me it either clamps or it doesn't.

Another thing I am curious about as far as tool quality is planes. First of all, I hardly even know how to adjust/use one yet, so that makes it hard for me to justify getting an expensive one. I see many people on here with pics of these old beautiful finely crafted planes. They look amazing but I wonder if they are really perform much better than any other.
I just got a basic stanley plane(it says "SB 4") at home depot. They had another #4 that said it was a contractor model, and it looked a bit nicer, but I had no idea if it really made a difference. Will the one I got work well enough? It's not too late to return it. Again, my first impression is that the plane is so simple that there can't be much difference in a cheap and expensive one. Wouldn't quality be more about how well you sharpen the blade? I also got a stanley block plane at the same time. It doesn't look too fancy either, but there weren't really any other options at that store.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Welcome to the Creek Hans!

The hand planes.....some of the Neanders will have to advise you on....I have a couple but am not too knowledgeable about them.

But generally speaking, what the guys say about quality is correct.....You get what you pay for.....and if you constantly have to fight a tool because it's not working correctly......I've literally taken tools after fighting them for so long...thrown them....thrown them into the trash. Left the house and bought a good one and am still using the good one. At the sametime, I often have to balance cost versus need versus what I can or am willing to shell out for a tool.


Again....Welcome to the Creek!

[Kristian Wild]

Welcome Hans,

I'm in the process of building up my personal arsenal now too, as I just started a couple of years ago. Unfortunately I don't even have a home shop (in an appartment too), but I am working as an apprentice cabinet maker so I get to use all manner and quality of tools.

For most things it's true - you get what you pay for. However you may not be able to appreciate this until you learn how to use your new tools to their fullest potential. Also, being shown the differences between different levels of tools by someone who knows is a big help. In all honesty, a new, well tuned stanley plane (an oxymoron?) will serve a hobbyist just fine. But once you use a well tuned Veritas or Lie Neilson plane you'll know the difference! Is it worth it to you now? That totally depends on how much disposable income you have to throw at tools. The sky's the limit by the way...

On the note of clamps, The shop I'm apprenticeing in had only bar clamps and C clamps when I started there. Everyone just used clamping blocks (cauls) to protect the workpiece. They work just fine. Now when I happened to bring in my first set of Bessy k-bodys certain tasks were easier where medium pressure was required and I didn't want to use cauls. Overall though, I could get by without them. My boss has since bought a dozen Bessys...

Just remember: (this is best done in the voice of Yoda, Jedi master) The most expensive tools do not a craftsman make...:)

Other tips: Read lots, Rent goofy videos of how to best use shop tools, (both of these can be found at the library of a local college that has trades programs) Watch Norm Abrams and other home workshop TV celebs. look at furniture and try to figure out how it was put together, then ask someone who would know how it was actually put together, try to build all the little around-the -home projects you can like door stops, shoe racks, a simple shelf, boxes for junk, etc.

One magazine that was very helpful to me when I didn't know any of the lingo or even where to start was Canadian Home Workshop. I know there must be several American equivalents out there. Lots of basic to advanced projects, very detailed instructions, tons of product reviews of standard home shop stuff, and lots of tips for home fix-it and renos. I've seen lots of input and letters from American readers so there is some following of it in the States.

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress!

Kris

[glenn bradley]

What is wrong with pipe clamps that justifies bar clamps that cost 4x as much?

Pipe clamps are great. I've got over a dozen and when you need 'em, there just the thing. I built a wall rack behind my rolling toolbox since that's where they live. They're one of those things that when you need 'em, you need 'em. The rest of the time there a bear to store. Build a rack to practice your skills.

K-body clamps apply pressure at 90* over a wide area. This is very helpful when clamping door frames or drawer bodies. Don't pay $35 for a 24" Bessy, they go on sale often and folks here (including me) usually post a link to the site having the sale. Why? Because you can never have enough clamps!

Anyway this falls under the 'don't spend money on stuff you don't know if you'll use' catagory. I bought a cheap second hand bandsaw and have gotten by with it. Would I love a 'real' bandsaw? Heck-yeah but, my money only goes so far and there are other things higher in priority right now for me.

I think you'll find this hobby and this site a lot of fun!

[Allen Bookout]

The best advice that I can give you is to really shop for good tool prices. You can save a bundle or buy a better tool for the same price as a lesser tool if you are willing to shop and wait until the right deal comes along. I think that overall I have paid an average of severty percent of the street value for the composit of my tools. Decide what you want and know the price---then wait.

Watch for good prices at Amazon, Heavydutytools, Hartville, Woodcraft, Coastaltool, Wilke, Spraygunworld, Grizzly, Wm.J.Redmond & Son, Toolking and more that I cannot think of right now. I am sure that others will have more suggestion of places to keep an eye out. Sometimes members will post good deals when they find them.

Another place to save money is on Manufactures reconditioned tools. Do not be afraid of them as most of the are like new or better. Toolking seems to have a lot of them from time to time and sometimes Amazon has some good deals on recons.

Don't forget used tools. They can be the best bargin of all. Newspaper, garage sales, Craigs List, estate sales, ect.

We all cannot afford the best but buy the best that you can. I strarted buying tools when I was your age and still have lot of them. I bought a crummy one when I was 25 that never worked real good and the stupid thing ran for over thirty years. I don't want that to happen to you. No one deserves that.

Good Luck and glad to have you along for the ride.

Allen

[Bartee Lamar]

Look at www.craigslist.com for Tools in Austin

You have to look every day. Most of the stuff you will not need, but sometimes there are great buys when people are cleaning out a put a Unisaw up for $400. I have seen about 5-6 really good buys in contractors saws in the Atlanta area over the past 6 months.

You need to know prices. So you can spot the deals. Then you need to be ready to move quickly. Most deals will be gone in 1 day.

Good luck. It is a great hobby and lots of great people.

[Steve Rowe]

Hans - welcome to the Creek.
Your situation sounds so familiar to me as I was there 27 years ago. I built a coffee table in the kitchen and on the back porch of a townhouse with fewer tools than you list (I used a handsaw to make my cuts). I still have it today and it survived the torture of two kids in good shape. I did this at age 24 with only the experience of Junior high shop and it was a true learning experience. Enjoy the ride.

For furniture building tools, I recommend the following:

"Classic Joints with Power Tools" by Yeung Chan. This shows you how to make joints and jigs with a variety of power tools from the hand held tools you have to stand alone machinery.
"Understanding Wood Finishing" by Bob Flexner.
Subscription to a woodworking magazine (my favorites are Woodwork and Fine Woodworking)
Random orbit sander
Parallel jaw clamps or tradesman style clamps (don't skimp on quality)
Beadlock tenoning jigSteve