Sanding question for turners....

[Dennis Peacock]

I have noticed that many of you have really nice and "smooth" bowls and items that you have turned on your lathes. I have turned several things on my lathe but sanding really gets to me. I have just turned a walnut bowl from a blank that was given to me by Bobby Hatfield. The wood was DRY and tough to turn. I have sanded for at least 10 hours on this bowl and I have a satisfactory surface for the finish as complared to many of your finished turned projects. I sand with the piece still on the lathe and hold the paper by hand while the piece is still spinning. What is your tricks to get a nice smooth finish on your turned projects?

[Anthony Yakonick]

A good finish starts with good tool work, as your tool work gets better you will have to sand less. Another tip is power sanding, a 2" or 3" foam backed sanding disc in a drill helps a great deal. Also sand with the grain when you finish with each grit like those flat workers do.

Anthony

[John Miliunas]

No expert here, but real dry Walnut can certainly be a PITA to sand down. One big thing, which I found really helps is keeping the surface "wet" with mineral oil. A LOT less streaking and you can usually blend it better. Also, Anthony's suggestion for the foam-backed sanding discs really helps, also. I've just got a 2" disc for that, but it's been sufficient for most of my needs. Also, a little tip for usability of the disc: I found the shaft to be a bit on the short side, so I chucked it into an extension normally used for spade bits. With it, I can get into most areas and it's easier to steady the disc, because you can actually let the shaft "ride" in your hand and better maneuver the disc to where you need it. :cool:

[Glenn Hodges]

Dennis, been there, done that, then I started power sanding. Now I use the 2 in., 3 in., and 5 in. size sand disk pad. The 2 and 3 in are used in my Sioux sander and the 5 in size in my 1/4 in drill. I found the 5 in. pad at walmart-I'm sure a lot of other places sell these. I use a 1/4 inch drill because it is faster. My lathe speed is slow at about 200 or less. I buy my 5 inch sanding disc from Grizzly or wherever, but they must have the sticky backing. The 2 in and 3 in use the velcro backing. Most of my sanding is with the 5 in size because I make larger bowls, but on smaller bowls I will use the smaller size disk, they are also useful for area touch ups on bowls. I have a different 5 inch sanding disk pad for each grit I use, this speeds things up about changing the sanding paper. I sand to 600, oil finish, then buff. I works for me--one who hates sanding. Hope this has been helpful.

[Mark Mandell]

Dennis,

You can also use your flatwood sanders on the exterior of your bowl. I use the ROS and Orbital all the time with the lathe slowed down.

If you can reverse your lathe's rotation, it will also help with some of the areas.

Don't dismiss the use of sanding sealers, either shellac or lacquer-based, especially with walnut. They will stiffen and support the fibers to allow the sharp abrasives to cut better (they also clog the paper so it's a trade-off).

Consider trying flatwood "card" scrapers. They shear the fibers with the burr edge that can be made much sharper than abrasive points. The curved ones can be a big help on the inside of the bowl.

Lastly, I always do some hand sanding on a bowl, either with the lathe stopped or the piece removed, as that is sometimes the only way to get rid of a stubborn streak.

Good Luck

Mark

[Tom Sweeney]

I want to thank you guys all for the tips also. I first read about power sanding the bowls just a few weeks ago - Looks like I'll have to give that a try.

Also to follow up on Mark's answer - a little while ago Dom posted about having problems sanding the end grain of Walnut. Someone suggested to him that he coat the Walnut with thinned varnish & as Mark says that stiffens the fibers which allows the sandpaper to shear them off.
I don't know if you would then go back to wet sanding with mineral oil???? Maybe you can search Dom's posts to get the full deal.

Also as Anthony says the better your toolwork is the less sanding you have to do - unfortunately that's why the 60 grit gouge is still one of my most used "tools" :rolleyes:

Post a picture when your finished Dennis - I haven't turned walnut yet but have a nice log waiting for me. I'd really like to see what you did with it.

[Dennis Peacock]

Great info there and wonderful advise and pointers.!!!!

If my tooling is part of the problem...then I must not have the correct "tool" to get the surface that everyone has been talking about. I still have just a Crown Starter set of turning tools with a couple of added tools. The size of the tools are "small" as compared to the ones I have heard and seen most of you use. 1/2" spindle gouge or bowl gouge? Ain't got one. My larges tool is my roughing gouge which is 3/4" and my gouges are all 1/4"...include my bowl gouge. I have a round nose scraper..light duty. Is it time for me to upgrade my turning tools? If so, what do I need to look at buying?

[Mark Mandell]

First-first:

What lathe do you have? There's no sense buying tools larger than can be used on a particular machine, but I'm sure that I can safely recommend you pick up a 3/8" bowl gouge as you can use on anything including mini's.

Mark

[Dennis Peacock]

First-first:

What lathe do you have? There's no sense buying tools larger than can be used on a particular machine, but I'm sure that I can safely recommend you pick up a 3/8" bowl gouge as you can use on anything including mini's.

Mark

Mark,

I have a Jet 1236....12" swing......I have turned chunks on this lathe so large and heavey that I had to get two people to hold the lathe in "place" while I turned the chunk round enough for the lathe to sit still. This the reason why I now have a broken tool rest..!!!!!

[Bill Grumbine]

Dennis, it my not be the size of your tool at all, but rather the shape of it - that is, the geometry of the grind. I regrind the profile on just about every bowl gouge that comes in my door, and people love the difference. Often people keep the grind they have from the factory, or just modify it slightly. I grind mine way back, giving me along edge that can be used in many different ways, from roughing out huge amounts of wood to taking off fine wisps of angelhair to remove tearout. It is not an easy process to describe the cuts, but sanding on a 12" bowl take me about 1/2 hour when the bowl gouge is behaving properly.

Bill

[Dennis Peacock]

Dennis, it my not be the size of your tool at all, but rather the shape of it - that is, the geometry of the grind. I regrind the profile on just about every bowl gouge that comes in my door, and people love the difference. Often people keep the grind they have from the factory, or just modify it slightly. I grind mine way back, giving me along edge that can be used in many different ways, from roughing out huge amounts of wood to taking off fine wisps of angelhair to remove tearout. It is not an easy process to describe the cuts, but sanding on a 12" bowl take me about 1/2 hour when the bowl gouge is behaving properly.

Bill

Bill,

Thanks for the info. But us newbies still learning the lathe and tools don't have a clue as to "what" you can grind and what you can't. I figured that the factory grind was a great place to be and maybe even start. BUT....where to take the grind from there is one that I am afraid to dive into. I don't want to screw up a good Crown turning tool..!!!

Maybe a longer fingernail grind would be a good place to start? I have set my Tormek up to put a longer grind on the bowl gouge and see how that works. I just feel that my bowl gouge and spindle gouge are very light as compared to most of the turning that I spend most time doing when turning projects. I wish you were close so I could take a lesson or two. I have visited other turners near here and they simply say that they have nothing more to add to what I already know. My tools will jump and chatter a lot when turning, even though I am riding the bevel edge, and it often feels like I am trying to turn a bowl out of dry rock maple with an ice pick.........I believe that if I could just "see" it done and then try it myself....I believe I could do a lot better.

Enough crying over my tools and poor turning techniques for now. I am very grateful for all the information and assistance that all of you have provided to me on this subject. I am frustrated over all this, but I will get over it and keep trying.

[Richard Allen]

There is a database of grinds over at wood central. These will give you a good view of of what different grinds that some people use for woodturning. Because of the terms of service here at SMC I will send you the link to the in a PM.

Thanks

[Gary Hern]

Hi Dennis,

Is there any wood left in that bowl? ;-) I'd have to recommend concentrating on your tool finish too.
I might add, that I do not like my grind too long on a bowl gouge, much less a 1/4" gouge. The chatter will only get worse in my experience. It can be controlled, but it takes practice. You can turn with almost any grind and some will favor one over another. The Ellsworth/Irish type grind is probably the most favored and I lean toward that type, however, I can find advantages to an old fashioned straight grind. There are many things that could be your cause for rough tool finish, but without seeing you turn, it's pretty difficult to diagnose. I would highly recommend Dell Stubbs video along with Ellsworths bowl video for tool control. The will both also show you different ways to shear scrape which works well on difficult woods. Good luck to you.

[Edward E Wilson Jr]

I have used the Sorby sandmaster tool in the sanding of the wood lamps that I make. Uses 2" velcro backed disks. I purchase the star disks from woodcraft in packages of 25. Have noticed today that packard woodworks (www.packardwoodworks.com) has them in packages of 10 for $2.95 (Have paid that in the past to woodcraft for packages of 5). I use 6 different grits, from 60 to 400.

Ed