Taunton going south?

[Dan Clark]

Hi. Up until tonight, my opinion of Taunton publications was that they were the absolute best of the woodworking magazines. Then I received their new "The Best of..." FHB and FWW DVDs.

Besides being very slow and having relatively low resolution images, the biggest fault is that the DVDs display is a little tiny window that can't be expanded. It's like looking through a peephole trying read them. The help text is so small that it's almost unreadable and there's nothing that you can do about it!

They designed this at a fixed resolution and format for an 800X600 screen. This is an amateur-level mistake!

I would have been happy if they just converted their articles to a bunch of PDF files. At least they would be readable. This thing is useless!

For $125 EACH, they are horrible. I have contacted them to get my money back. I strongly recommend that you NOT purchase these DVDs and consider future Taunton purchases carefully.

Regards,

Dan.

p.s., I've included a screen shot showing the size of the tiny screen.

[Bob Marino]

Wow, thanks for the heads up on that one!

Bob

[Allen Bookout]

For $12 that is horrible much less $125. I would hate to be the person at Tauton that came up with that but more than that I would hate to be the guy that put out $125 for it. There should be some major repercussions over that deal.

[glenn bradley]

I'm not a PC geek but, as a 24 year network geek I've had to deal with these 'instruments of the devil' since before IBM new what PC's were. Go to your control panel and make your display resolution smaller. That is; instead of 1280 X 1024 or 1024 X 768, slide down to 800 X 600 or less. This will make their images larger on your screen thought the quality will remain the same.

This is a total rookie move by them. I'm not a latest-and-greatest freak by any means but any computer less than a few years old will be running at a higher resolution than their fixed 800 X 600. Again, you should not have to do this but they made their choice. If they're going to live in the past, they should offer the disc's in different resolutions so people can choose.

[Dan Clark]

That's ridiculous for them to expect me to do that.

I have three monitors on my workstation running 1600X1200. My laptop runs 1920X1200. All of my fonts and other settings are for that resolution. I'm NOT going to change my setup just for the ONE low resolution application.

All of my monitors in the last decade ran higher than that. 800X600 is early 90's resolution. Today, you can buy a nice 20" LCD monitor that runs 1600X1200 for less than $300. A nice 19" LCD that displays 1280X1024 can be had for less than $140.

In other words, massive numbers of people are buying bigger, higher resolution monitors. Forcing them to use look through a poorly designed, peep-hole application is NUTS!

And, YES... I'm PO'd. I've been eagerly awaiting for these DVDs for the last two months. Talk about a let down. I've written them demanding my money back. I'll keep the group updated.


Regards,

Dan.

[Rob Bodenschatz]

Get your money back, Dan. That is absolutely unacceptable. I was considering the purchase of that set and now I will not.

[Dan Clark]

The trick of resetting resolution would have worked OK in the era of CRT monitors. But I have LCDs...

LCD monitors look great in their native resolution - tack sharp. But they look HORRIBLE when you take them off their native resolution. At 800X600 on my monitor, the image is fuzzy and grainy - unusable.

I simply can't believe that Taunton would do something that dumb! And I wanted that DVDs information! This is horribly frustrating. :(

Dan.

[Al Weber]

I bought the first CD they brought out and the quality of it was so bad, I swore never to make that mistake again. They seem to be a high end printing operation with no concept of newer technology. Even the FWW website has it's problems. I'm in the woods of NH with a dial up connection and there is no way for me to watch their video. I use Mozilla and they have an add-on video download package that works on all other video I have tried but not the FWW arrangement for whatever reason.

In the last issue of FWW was the great article by Garrett Hack's sideboard. I had some questions about the construction and asked them through the Knots forum. Got a quick answer and some further discussion of the plan which the article said would be available at the end of November on the website. When questioned, they said that the plan would be available to purchase for $25 and just in the past few days they set up a new online site to purchase plans. I can only imagine they are having financial troubles and are trying to save themselves. They would be better served by increasing the magazine price and including the detailed plans in the magazine. No way am I going to spend $25 when I can figure out the dimensions myself and make my own cutlists and diagrams.

[glenn bradley]

You're right Dan, unacceptable. CRT or LCD or Plasma, no difference. The size of the display and the resolution equals how good it looks to us. The resolution Taunton has chosen would not be acceptable on any monitor to my 50-something eyes. The physical display couldn't be over 15" and that would be a strech. $125 for thumbnail size windows??? I would expect to get that on the web for free! Thanks Dan for being the "Guinea pig" on this one for us.

[Eric Mims]

You might try right-clicking on the icon, going to Properties, then changing the 'Run' box to 'Maximized'. It will start the program in a maximized window...now that doesn't necessarily mean the actually content will be maximized in this case, but it's worth a shot.

[Dan Clark]

You might try right-clicking on the icon, going to Properties, then changing the 'Run' box to 'Maximized'. It will start the program in a maximized window...now that doesn't necessarily mean the actually content will be maximized in this case, but it's worth a shot.

Eric,

Good thought, but that doesn't work. The 'Maximized' item is greyed out. It can't be maximized.

That's the problem with junior-level programmers. They don't have the experience to understand broader issues. They hard-code things using their narrow little mindset and ASSUME that the customers have the exact same environment and needs. They are inside-the-box thinkers!

If you want to see some software designed by outside-the-box thinkers, take a look at Google Sketchup or Microsoft Visio. Different approachs to similar issues but both are great pieces of software. Flexible, powerful, extensible, and relatively easy to use.

Dan.

[Ethan Sincox]

I wouldn't be so quick to blame the programmer...

Having worked in corporate America for 10 years (in a Quality Assurance role for several of those years), I can't tell you how many times I've told a supervisor that something needed to be changed for better end-user usability or for the sake of simplicity or because it is the same way they've been doing it for 20 years and they need to take advantage of today's technology, and been told that my opinion is no better than theirs so they're going to do it their way or that they just cannot afford to add the extra expense to do it RIGHT.

Most of the time those decisions are made by the upper crust of the company and they tend to just see numbers and dollars.

We don't really know what went on behind the scenes... maybe their fresh-from-college programmer argued for two days about sending out a DVD w/800x600 resolution, but got overruled. Seems to me that if it were a programming mistake, it would be a senior-level mistake (as in, not up on their programming) as opposed to a junior-level mistake. Most of the younger programmers at my current job (in their early twenties) run circles around some of the "older" guys (in their late twenties).

On the other hand, I also work with programmers who will mindlessly perform every task their manager gives them with no question or hesitation, even if they know of a better/more efficient way to program.

In general, I've been pretty happy with the Tauton company, as far as their magazine and books are concerned. I visited their website quite often before they started charging for their on-line information. I don't care to pay for that, so now I use some of their services and I just don't use others. That's the best way for us consumers to make changes.

So maybe they made a mistake on their DVDs... I make mistakes all the time, myself. Its usually my best way of learning (though I do prefer to learn from the mistakes of OTHERS). I'm sure they're learning something from their mistake right now.

I've talked with Tauton customer service several times over the past two years (not necessarily for issues or problems, but sometimes for advice or assistance or to find my subscription account number), and I have always found them to be polite and helpful.

I bet a polite letter or phone call would easily find your money refunded or your situation remedied in some way, Dan.

Tis the season...

Ethan

[Dan Clark]

Ethan,

Points well taken.

As to who did what and when will remain a mystery. Whether the "junior programmer" is the project manager, analyst, dev manager or developer isn't really relevant. What is relevant is that someone or multiple someones made poor decisions and Taunton released a product that is just not usable on modern, high resolution LCD monitors.

As you've intimated, the word "expediant" is used a lot. "Just get it out the door." Or, maybe, "Let's keep it simple." Or even, "It looks good on my system." Ultimately, it's a failure in management.

It looks to me like they didn't bother to clearly identify the customer needs and market constraints, didn't test it thoroughly on a number of computers, and/or didn't beta test it with customers.

I've spent over $400 on books, DVDs and other Taunton products. I've been very happy with them.

Regarding the DVD, this is a V2.0 product. If it was 1.0, I could understand the screwup. There's no excuse for this one.

Regarding the return, I've contacted them and they are sending me a form to return the software. But...

I do NOT want to return the software. I want the info on the DVDs. That's the problem. The info is great; the software makes it unusable. That's what I'm angry about.

Regards,

Dan.

[Scott Loven]

I sent them a copy of this thread..........

[Brian Elfert]

You might try right-clicking on the icon, going to Properties, then changing the 'Run' box to 'Maximized'. It will start the program in a maximized window...now that doesn't necessarily mean the actually content will be maximized in this case, but it's worth a shot.

Even if you could maximize the DVD window, it will probably be very pixelated.

I watch a TV show at NBC.com weekly and if I change it to full screen it becomes very pixelated so I just leave it in a window. (I run 1280x1024.)

Brian Elfert

[Ethan Sincox]

Dan,

Management does do that on occasion... what can we do but smile and nod and be glad that we don't have to make those decisions.

I hope you can get everything worked out with your DVDs. Please let us know how and when it does, though, so the rest of the forum knows when it is OK to start buying them again!

I can't afford to buy all of the books and videos I'd love to have in my library, so I do the next best thing - I have my county library do it for me! I don't know about anyone else's libraries, but the Resource Manager once told me that they often have several hundred dollars of "purchase" money they have to spend the last month of their fiscal year on best seller and random books because they don't get so many requests for books and videos.

So I have the resource desk's email address saved and every time I come across a woodworking book or DVD I wouldn't mind reading or watching, I'll send a purchase request to them. More often than not, they'll pick it up. Within six or seven months, not only do I have access to that information, but so does every other woodworker in the area.

Best of luck with the DVDs!

[Dan Clark]

Unfortunately, I don't see any positive result. I expect that 1) Taunton will refund my money, 2) the people involved will NOT admit they screwed up (they'd look bad to upper manglement, and 3) they keep trying to sell these things for the next two years or so.

The outcome? I get my money back but I don't get the valuable info I want. I.e., I lose.

Remember, getting my money back is NOT my goal. (Or, a minor goal at best.) My goal is to get Taunton's good info in a decent format. Unfortunately that won't happen. :(

Dan.

[Jerry White]

Dan,

Thank you for passing this information along to the rest of us. I WAS on the brink of placing my order for the FWW DVD. Please keep us posted.

Jerry

[Doug Shepard]

I bought their lame CD (or was it DVD) a few years ago that was supposed to have all their mag content for something like 10 years or so (?). I mistakenly thought that meant I could then safely get rid of the hardcopies which I no longer had room to store. Only later did I discover that one of the best columns - the Master Class column - were completely left out. The search engine on the disc was also 98% useless which made finding anything on the disc fairly impossible, even when it was there. Even when it did work, it was so slow as to make me think something was wrong with my PC. I still get the mag but that experience turned me off to ever buying another disc from them or even their online subscription program.

[Jerry Olexa]

Thats amazingly poor execution of a product they are selling....I used to hold FWW in the HIGHEST regard and still subscribe. But even the mag is slipping IMHO'''

[Dennis Peacock]

Wow.!!!!! Gald I saw and read this thread. Thanks!!!!

[scott spencer]

IMHO they've been slipping for a couple of years. Their buying guide is a joke.....much of the 2006 guide was a reprint from the 2005. I don't value the mag as much as I once did either.

[Dan Clark]

Hi. In another forum, a fellow indicated that the original V1 software had the feature where you could export the data for better reading. So...

I decided to check the interface to see if the data could be exported. Sorry, no go! No export!

Now for more fun... Just for grins, I tried printing. Firstly, printing takes about twice as long as other documents. Then about 1/2 way through printing, the FWW DVD hard-crashed. Bang, it was gonzo.

And, here's another interesting "feature". It turns out that that print feature automatically prints the pages in reverse order (so that the pages are ordered correctly). That's OK except that the my printer driver is set to print in reverse order so that everything else prints in the correct order. End result - the stupid software prints backwards so that you have to shuffle the pages! And you can't change any of its print settings!!!

I keep trying to find some merit in this stuff, but I can't. This has got to be one of the most brain-dead STUPID pieces of software that I have ever come across. Arrrgh! :mad:

Dan.

[Kelly C. Hanna]

$125 each?? Ouch! Thanks for the heads up.

[Matt Day]

I just saw a thread on whether or not these are worth it, I guess I know the answer now!

I love the magazine (and I've heard great things about the books) and everything about the online part, except the fact that I've never been able to get the videos to work.

[Mark Pruitt]

Boy, it sounds like Taunton has one to dig itself out of!

I quit subscribing to FWW years ago when they got the (wrong IMO) impression that their mag was worth over $20. It ain't. Never has been.

At least their DVD videos are done professionally and priced accordingly.

[Steve Sawyer]

They designed this at a fixed resolution and format for an 800X600 screen. This is an amateur-level mistake!

Thanks, Dan. I was seriously considering this DVD. You just saved me from wasting $125.

[John Piwaron]

Thanks so much for the warning. I know now not to stretch my budget and spend the money on this DVD.

I'd been very seriously thinking of buying this because pawing through my enormous stack of FWW magazines takes a long time and to be honest, sometimes I just can't find an article I know I'd seen at some point in the past.

I guess I wish they'd print another spiral bound index if they can't get a disk made with truly useful presentation.

800x600 resolution. How 1990.

[Blake Holton]

Wow, thanks for the heads up. I'd like to stick around, but I've got a Christmas list to modify!

Blake

[skip coyne]

theres a thread at fine homebuilding's breaktime on this also ..not happy about it there either

its under feedback on fine home building

[Rob Haddon]

I've seen many such poorly designed programs (which are not necessarily the programmers) in my travels. It basically boils down to the fact that the program designers are out of touch with their users.

Anyway, here's something worth trying. Most of the time you can access the data directly and not have to go through the resolution-restricted program. Browse through the DVD using Windows Explorer or other file management program and see what is there. Often times you will find the source files are in PDF or JPG or some other standard. Load them up without using Taunton's program and you might be in luck. The usual downside to this approach is that you will lose the searching/indexing features of the collection. So finding stuff is a pain, but once found you can actually see what you've got in good resolution.

[Nathan Yeager]

I understand the feeling of wasting money, but I think you may be over-reacting to the situation.

A quick search of their FAQ's points out that they suggest setting your monitor to 800x600. They are not hiding this fact. I would be much more upset if they had created a fixed window designed around a 1920 resolution when my computer only supported 800.

Changing a res is a task that takes all of 3 seconds to do, and 3 to undue. I suspect that you live with much greater (though also unnecessary) setup times on your woodshop machinery with little complaint.

Comparing Taunton Press to Microsoft? That's a bit like comparing the capabilities of my newbie garage woodshop to what can be found at the Atlanta IWF.

I say spend the 6 seconds changing your resolution, and enjoy the articles. If you have problems getting your money back, I will buy them from you and happily reset my resolution.

[Rob Bodenschatz]

Dan is not over-reacting, Nathan. All the points made in this thread are valid. Changing the resolution? That's acceptable? No way. Taunton blew it.

[Mike Henderson]

Taunton does not appear to be very computer or web savvy (or they want to limit things for their customers). I have a complete set of FWW mags and sometimes try to use their on-line index to find an article. The on-line index is extremely primitive. Rather than a Google type search where any words you want to search for will be found in the articles, they appear to have set up certain words for articles and that’s all you can search on. Additionally, it appears to me that you can only search on ONE word. If I put two words in the search box, I get zero results.

They could easily do a deal with Google to use Google’s engine to search the on-line articles. And if Google was too expensive, there are a bunch of other search people who would be happy to do a deal with them.

Mike

[Jerry Olexa]

Often times, with leadership (which I believe FWW was (is)) comes complacency. This leads to erosion of that leadership due to sitting on the past laurels and not adjusting to the current state. Witness Ford, GM, IBM etc Just my thought. Further, there is often a short sighted reluctance to invest $ to be competitive in the current environment...

[Joe Jensen]

I understand the feeling of wasting money, but I think you may be over-reacting to the situation.

A quick search of their FAQ's points out that they suggest setting your monitor to 800x600. They are not hiding this fact. I would be much more upset if they had created a fixed window designed around a 1920 resolution when my computer only supported 800.

Changing a res is a task that takes all of 3 seconds to do, and 3 to undue. I suspect that you live with much greater (though also unnecessary) setup times on your woodshop machinery with little complaint.

Comparing Taunton Press to Microsoft? That's a bit like comparing the capabilities of my newbie garage woodshop to what can be found at the Atlanta IWF.

I say spend the 6 seconds changing your resolution, and enjoy the articles. If you have problems getting your money back, I will buy them from you and happily reset my resolution.

Nathan, most new computers have LCD monitors. Setting the monitor to a resolution other than it's native resolution results in a VERY POOR image. So, setting a high resolution LCD to 800-600 will result in a crappy image. Their approach is the one used 10 years ago. Unacceptable today...joe

[Charles McKinley]

Nathan the CD is $125!!!!!!!!! Not 12.50! It is totally unacceptable to have to view it in this crappy low resolution. Taunton prides itself on the fancy schmancy pictures and charges for it I can't believe they would put out such a sub-standard product.

I for one am glad for this thread because it saved me a lot of money, at least for me.

[Dan Clark]

Nathan,

You completely missed the point...

As I and others have pointed out, this is an expensive product from a high-end magazine. Designing a product with a fixed window format that only works well on low-resolution monitors is completely unacceptable in this day and age. Given the price, it absolutely amazing to see this.

Regarding your comments, it's obvious that you don't own a high-resolution LCD monitor. Beside the horrible color and quality when you downsize an LCD, there are lots of other little fun things that can happen.

For example, I have a lot of icons on my desktop. Each is placed in a group by function - system apps in the system group, office apps in the office group, etc. So what happens when you down size your resolution? It rearranges your desktop AUTOMATICALLY! Your nice ordered grouping is now corrupt!!!

Or, take a look at my video card settings. (Image attached.) Want to take a guess how long it took me to get these right?!? The last thing I want to do is mess with the video settings for ONE APPLICATION.

And my system isn't very complex. Lots of people have setups MUCH more complex than mine.

The time it takes to reset the resolution is insignificant compared to the other issues we are discussing. Blithely saying "just change your resolution" (you or Taunton) shows a major lack of understanding of the issues involved these days.

One other "fun" little issue I discovered. I nosed around their DVD to see the file format. The good news is that the articles are in PDF form. The bad news is that each is password protected so that you can't even view them! I went the extra mile to find some way of making this product work!!! Arrrgh...

On a positive note, I received my return document and tomorrow will be return the DVDs for a refund.

I still think Taunton is reputable company. It's just they have a long way to go in publishing information in alternative formats.

Regards,

Dan.

p.s., My appologies for the screen shot in black and white. I didn't notice that until I uploaded, but I think you get the idea.

[Nathan Yeager]

Dan,

I appreciate your review of the product.

In fact I do understand the issue, and I do understand the technology. I am a senior manager for a systems consulting firm specializing in process improvement for the energy trading industry, and a law student at night. I have been in the systems consulting industry for 15 years. I spend the majority of my day on one of my 4 systems (my personal system, my consulting company's system, my client's system, or my system devoted to law school). And by majority of my day I mean > 12 hours. I suspect that any one of my systems is more advanced than yours unless you also require the most advanced technology to perform your job.

What appears to be obvious is that you do not know how to efficiently configure your system so that something as easy as adjusting the resolution does not corrupt it.

Here are the tallied complaints you have made on Taunton's software:
1. Fixed screen size best viewed at 800x600 - valid complaint. My comment is that it is of minimal consequence and should not eliminate your enjoyment of the product.

2. Printing in reverse order - seems you have set your driver to account for OTHER software's lack of foresight. Why ding Taunton on this?

3. Password protected image files - I doubt Taunton would be pleased with your ability to mass distribute their copyrighted material at your lesiure

Do you expect these results from the machines in your workshop? I suspect many of them cost much more than $125. How many times have you customized one to work more efficiently immediately after you purchased it? Or, do you get a new machine, plop it on your shop floor, expect dead-on accurate cuts, and go demand your money back when it doesn't?

I am not trying to make enemies on this internet site, I am merely offering my viewpoint. I am sure that Taunton would love to hear all complaints so that they can provide a more marketable product.

Dan: There's no need to denegrate anyone.

By the way, I replied to this message after setting my system to an 800x600 resolution. I will be back in business with my personal preference of 1400x1050 in about 5 seconds...

[Anatole Burkin]

There are some valid comments here about the functionality of the DVD. We are in talks with the outside vendor who produced this product about resolving the major issues -- screen resolution and the ability to do a full zoom on the PDFs.

We do our best to produce quality products and always offer a full refund if customers are dissatisfied. I understand that a refund is not what most people want -- they want something that works well. In the case of electronic products, including our website, we are constantly learning as we go and using feedback from customers to improve our products.

I'll post an update as soon as we know more from the vendor.

Anatole Burkin
Publisher
Fine Woodworking

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Anatole........Thanks for your reply! I look forward to your future response! Look around SMC .....there are a lot of members who subscribe to FWW....myself included. It's nice to know you are concerned enough to make a personal reply. BTW .....there are several members who have had projects featured in your magazine.

Welcome to the Creek!

[Tom Hamilton]

An echo from Houston, Anatole. Welcome to the Creek. By now, I should not be surprised by the power of the internet in general and Forums in specific, but I still am.

As a subscriber to FWW, and owner of severl Taunton Press woodworking, cooking and gardening books, I know you successfully produce high quality routinely. No doubt the DVD will measure up to FWW standards soon.

I hope you enjoy a dip in the Creek on a regular basis.


Best regards, Tom, in Houston, enjoying the latest issue of FWW.

[Thomas Walker]

Sounds like Nathan may have been on the "consulting" side of the business a little too long, just like the Information Technology guys at Tauton. If users complain about the product, it must be "their" fault. After all, there are ways to work around the problem - what's the big deal if the software is cludgy & a pain to use. Maybe after Nathan gets his law degree at night school, he will change sides and file a class action law suit against Tauton -- then he can get rich looking out for the best interests of the consumer and retire in style.