which cad program should I use?

[stephen anderson]

Hi. I'm just moving into a shop in Brooklyn, NY. I'll be the only employee for the time being, possibly for a couple of years or so, as I have a lot of learning to do. Hopefully I'll be building mostly custom furniture, but I'll probably take whatever jobs I can get for the time being.

One thing I really need advice on is some recommendations for CAD programs to plan furniture and cabinetry projects.
I'd like something that gives me simple line drawings and dimensions (3d would be good as well), that I could then add some color and perspective to with colored pencils, if I were presenting an idea to a client. (I've seen this work well in the past.)
I'd like some software that wasn't too expensive, but that would be able to handle complex design ideas.
I'd really like something that I could use with a CNC machine one day.

And, I don't think I'm interested in Sketch-up, at least from the results I've seen on here. It looks too cartoonish for my taste. Mostly I'm just looking for a design program that is relatively easy to learn, and gives me clear 3 dimensional line drawings.

Oh, and it would have to be compatible with a mac.

any suggestions? pros or cons of software you've used in the past?

Thanks!
Stephen

[Dave Richards]

Is this too cartoonish?
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n268/SketchUp_Tutorials/working0.jpg

Well, I don't know then. 3D perspective, easy to learn, works on Mac, not SketchUp. I have no idea, sorry. Good luck in your search.

[chris fox]

Stephen,

I wouldnt pass up on Sketchup because its too cartoonish. If your looking for a program thats looks easy to learn this is the one. I use Solidworks, Pro/e and Autocad programs, Solidworks the most at work. I use this at home for laying out my WW'ing projects just because its easy and I want to spend my time building in the garage. These programs are overkills compared to Sketchup.

I am sure there are high dollar commercial programs that factories use, but until then give Sketchup a try. I am currently playing with a Sketchup demo, but I think you can change the format/interface a bit if you think its to cartoonish.

Remember you want to spend your time building than reading manuals and asking questions on how to do something especially programs that arent meant or cater to WW'ing. For the money this has all the bells and whistles. Plus theres also are alot of input on Sketchup in this forum.

my. 02

Chris

[Jim Becker]

Merely because you need Mac compatibility, SketchUp! is one of the best choices, IMHO. And as Dave points out...it's very capable. More importantly, it's easy to learn...you can be productive quickly, especially at the detail level you really need for basic project designs if you are an experienced woodworker. I don't bother with extremely detailed drawings anymore...the time is better spent building the project.

[Dave Richards]

To add to this, if you buy SU5Pro you can output DXF and DWG files which could be used for CNC machining.

[tim rowledge]

In my opinion (as a onetime researcher in CAD, User Interfaces, Industrial Design etc) the simple visual appearance that Sketchup uses as a default is a very significant plus.
Several reasons:-
a) speed. even now you can't do realtime photorealistic rendering
b) clarity. a line drawing style can often be more informative when trying to discern dimension, edge flow etc
c) realism. when you're sketching the reality is that the design isn't finished. I claim that it *shouldn't* look finished. When I was doing an M.Des (many years ago, when magic markers were king) I was stunned at how marker renderings could be (and often were) dressed up to look so pretty that nobody noticed physical impossibilities in the design.

Besides, if you're starting out, free is good.

[Dennis Peacock]

Yet another voter for Sketchup.....I like it. Still getting used to it, but I like it. :D

[stephen anderson]

Ok guys.
I'll certainly give it a try. It doesn't hurt that there are so many people familiar with the software on this site. And yes, free is good!
Thanks for all your responses!

-stephen

[Joe Dusel (Vista, CA)]

I vote for eCabinet Systems software. It's also free for professionals and it will do just about anything you need including line drawings, renderings, cut lists and nest diagrams for your sheet materials. And the eCabs software is parametric, so if you have a cabinet box that you want to resize everything that is part of the cabinet box (like doors, drawer boxes, drawer fronts and face frames) is resized correspondingly. I think the nice renderings really help at selling jobs.

These are two jobs that I worked on recently.

Joe

[Derek Foster]

I use Unigraphics! If it's good enough for aircraft, it's good enough for my coffee table. Don't let the multi-thousand dollar price tag scare you. :D

Seriously though I have used Pro-E, SolidWorks and Unigraphics. All overkill. Get something simple with a decent rendering program and I bet you'll be happy. Better to waste a little money than a lot.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

Wow Joe! Those are nice renderings. Sure beats the cartoons that Sketchup makes.
-Jeff :)

[Dave Richards]

Wow Joe! Those are nice renderings. Sure beats the cartoons that Sketchup makes.
-Jeff :)

Cartoons, huh? ;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/weekender410/DigitalRatLarge6.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/weekender410/armoireburl2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/weekender410/20061209174942_1m8s.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/weekender410/38m34smodified.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/weekender410/WRscalerender.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/weekender410/Vesper.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/weekender410/sconces.jpg

[Joe Dusel (Vista, CA)]

It looks like both programs (Sketchup and eCabs) do a nice job.

Here are a few pictures of how the one job in my renderings came out.

Joe

[Gary Whitt]

Cartoons, huh? ;)

Nice cartoons, Dave! :D


<---- can't even draw a rectangle :mad:

[John Miliunas]

Cartoons, huh? ;)

Dave, you are, without a doubt, THE MASTER on SU!!! That's absolutely fantastic, my friend! :) :cool:

[Dave Richards]

Gary, thanks. We'll work on that. ;)

John, you make me blush. Thank you for the kind words.

[John Schreiber]

Cartoons, huh? Man o man. Those are good. You did the sailboat in SU? Is there a special plug-in for those kind of lines or what's the trick? I'm still plugging away on the tutorial in my spare time. Working on the drawers now. Also drew up a plan for a marking gauge which I hope to post soon.

[Dave Richards]

John, Thank you.

The original file for the Vesper sailing canoe was drawn in a program called Freeship!. (I'm not yelling that, it's name really is Freeship!. :D) I exported the drawing as a DXF file and then imported it into SU. Once I had it in SU I did a bunch of cleanup work before exporting to render.

It could have been drawn in SU but since the file already existed as a Freeship! file, there was little point in going to the trouble. The original was drawn by an aquaintance of mine and is freely available on the Freeship! site.

FWIW, this is a boat I drew from scratch in SU. This is drawn from the offsets I drew up for the cradle boat I made for my son.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/weekender410/cradle.jpg

Looking forward to seeing your marking gauge.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

Stephen,
You will probably find that most CAD software caters to Windows PC environment. However, don't be too afraid to change computer formats if that's what holds you back. Windows and MACs are awfully close in functionality these days. Also, once you launch the software, the differences become even more smaller.

Joe,
I fooled around with ecabinets software a long time ago. This software appears to do a whole lot more than just draw geometry as you probably know better than me for sure. It prepares cut lists, order materials and does alot of thinking about cabinetry details behind the scenes. It could be a time saver over generic design software like Sketchup, TurboCAD, AutoCAD, etc. I guess it depends on the type of work one does.

However, I had no idea it had such a nice rendering engine as evident by your pics, and the ability to import models. Nice!

cheers, Jeff :)

[Jim Becker]

Current (Intel) Macs run Windows beautifully, too...and fast. You can dual boot (with the Apple utility) or in VMs with third party setups. My next machine my be an Intel Mac. I need to continue to have access to Windows due to a number of applications that I cannot afford to re-license on Mac OS, but would love to enjoy the advanced OS otherwise.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

At work I tried to install AutoCAD on a few Macs using Virtual PC software. It was so horribly slow; it was unusable and would jam up after drawing a few simple lines. I believe the layers of software were: MAC OS10 to Virtual PC to Windows 2000 to AutoCAD. That's quite a path for a command to go thru.

Perhaps the new Mac operating systems are better now with using PC software. My experience is about 4 years old. But, I'd still be weary. CAD drawings can become unwieldy very quickly especially if the graphics card is the average Nvidia GeForce game card like my home computer has.

cheers, Jeff :)

[Jim Becker]

Jeff, the current Macs are a whole nuther animal...they are Intel based (dual core) and run native Windows faster than most "real" Windows machines. There is no emulation involved now. They are also considerably faster for the same or less money than you paid for the previous generation...substantially less in some cases.

[Christopher Zona]

I use Solidworks, Pro/e and Autocad programs, Solidworks the most at work.
I also use SolidWorks extensively at work. It's a pretty robust piece of software for its price.

That said, I think it can be overkill for wood working projects. I have seen a less expensive 3d modeler called "Alibre" which looks to be pretty decent though I haven't used it myself. Also, the price seems rather affordable if your just starting your own business and want to keep costs down.

Regards,

Chris

[Jason Anders]

I'd recommend for a "free" professional grade 2d cad program SolidEdge 2. Available from http://www.solidedge.com/free2D/ They have CNC and a 3d version when and if you need to make the upgrade.

[Steve Summers]

Greetings. I too am going through the software search process. And I am a MAC user too (G5 PPC). So far, SketchUp is winning the award for coolest program. I also tried TurboCad MAC 2 (2D only) and TurboCad MAC Pro 2 (2D drafting and 3D modeling). They both have a 30 day free trial (www.turbocad.com). The one thing I didn't like about the 3D software, you could not use a texture (like wood grain or brick, etc) on a 3D surface. Only a solid color. Don't let their documentation fool you. Even though it says you can do this, the documentation is for the Windows version. Their tech support person expained this to me.

And take a look at OnmiGraffle (www.omnigroup.com). It is like Microsoft's Visio, but for a MAC. They also have a free trial version.

Have fun. Let us know what you finally end up choosing.

[Mark Singer]

Sketch up!

[Dave Richards]

Sketch up!

:D :D

That's all you need. ;)

[John Schreiber]

Earlier someone had mentioned that they thought the SketchUp output looked cartoonish. I suspect that what that means is that some people think that the straightforward output of SU doesn't look complicated or professional enough.

The latest update, Version 6, has a wide variety of display styles which, I think add a lot of "professional" appearance. Here are a few examples:


55071
Traditional SketchUp

55072
CAD look

55073
Hand drawn look


And there are many other styles available.