pricing your work--dilemma

[Mark Pruitt]

In the next couple of weeks I will have completed the first turned item that I will be selling. To me, it's not about making a profit off of it and I would gladly let the recipient have it for cost of materials and maybe just a tad for labor.

That, however, creates a dilemma in a couple of ways. For me, as word gets around that I do woodturning, I will likely have further requests, and I don't want to put myself in the awkward position of asking significantly more in the future. (Kind of like, Stacy says to Linda, I like that bowl. Where did you get it. Linda says, Mark made it for me and he only asked $30 for it. Stacy then comes to me wanting a bowl, and by that time I have decided that my turned pieces are worth more than I charged Linda.) The other dilemma is that it could tend to devalue what other turners are putting out. If you pay me $30 for a bowl but Jimmy charges $50 for the same bowl, and turning is Jimmy's livelihood, I've done Jimmy a disservice that I do not want to do!

So, before I put a price tag on this piece, I'm trying to think through these issues. I would appreciate some input from you.

[Bruce Forrest]

As far as I'm concerned, there are only two prices to charge. Either full or free. Either its a gift or it's a business transaction. You'll have to decide which.

[JOHN VITOSKY]

I think you have just said enough to justify, and honestly so, charging what the going rate. I have had this delima also and have been told by others that I dont charge enough. Its hard especially if you are a NICE guy. You dont want to charge too much but also as harmful is charging too little. You have valid and ethical reasons for charging the going rate.

[Raymond Overman]

Mark,

You're re-hashing a old question. There are a number of ways to price work and you'll get a number of answers. Here's mine...

With many of my plain pieces I price them at

(diameter X height X modifier) + material = price

My modifier is usually a 2 now and my material is usually $0.00 if it's neighborwood. So for a 10" diameter bowl that is 4" deep I charge around $80.

This pricing model flies out the window when it comes to specialty wood such as burls, hollow forms, or natural edge pieces where the modifier jumps depending on the detail in the piece. If the piece is carved, burned, decorated, inlaced, or otherwise made into art it also increases in price.

Unless you're making a bunch of salad bowls that are the same size and same wood I wouldn't worry too much about people wondering why you're selling one piece at one price and another at a higher price as long as you're consistent with your price with the same piece. You may also want to modify your prices if you're selling in a gallery/consignment situation to account for the percentage they are taking.

.04 for inflation

[Bob Opsitos]

I've been wondering about pricing as well. I'd like to sell some items but I don't want to charge too much or to little. I don't want to eek out every penny but I want it to be "in line" with other peoples work.

Ray your number seems a great place for me to start. Do you find that the pricing allows you to move a reasonable amount of work? If you don't mind sharing what kind of modifier do you put in for various other forms or even segmented work?

thanks
bob

[Dennis Peacock]

When I sell one, I usually charge $5 per inch. 10" bowl is $50. A lot of the pricing has to do with your location. Someone selling in NYC can't possibly survive selling $50 bowls and a person in Conway, AR can't sell a single bowl for more than $35, no matter the size of the bowl or type of wood. (just an example)...

I don't sell my stuff on the scale of other turners in the area, but mine are usually friends at work, church, and such that are wanting something out of the ordinary as a gift to someone. I'm not trying to compete with anyone, but when I do, my prices will be very near the going price of any local woodturner.

[John Hart]

For a little while, I sold some stuff on Amazon through a craft affiliate (Artisan Street) and went through this same dilemma. When I said I wanted to get $40 for a pen...they said,"sure"....then they marked it up to $60 and it sold right away. Same with vases and bowls. I said I wanted $80 for a salad bowl and fork and spoon ensemble and they marked it up to $130 and it sold.

So...in the end...my advice is...ummm...I dunno.:confused:

[Bernie Weishapl]

I charge full price for mine unless it is a gift. If you don't it will come back to bite you. I asure you it will. I agree with Bruce two prices, full or gifts.

[Steve Schlumpf]

Mark, I'm in the same boat as you and have been trying to figure prices as well.

Have to agree with everyone here in that you are either selling the item or giving it away. If selling it - what does a comparable item go for in your area? If you can come up with a local price - check and see if the formula from Raymond or Dennis would apply.

My wife and I went to the local Christmas Craft Fair this past weekend and the 2 turners there were not bashful in their asking prices - at least double what I thought the items would have been worth. Thing is - they were selling at those prices!

Haven't tried to sell any of my bowls yet but believe I am afraid of underpricing my work and setting a precedent. Still - can't believe I would sell anything locally at Craft Fair prices.

[Raymond Overman]

Do you find that the pricing allows you to move a reasonable amount of work? If you don't mind sharing what kind of modifier do you put in for various other forms or even segmented work?

Bo,

I moved quite a bit of work a few weeks ago at a local show. This is the third year I've done the show and it was my first >$1k show. To give you an idea on the higher priced pieces here are three of my premiums.

Cherry Burl - 6" dia x 3 1/2" tall - $150
Osage Orage NE - 6 1/4" dia x 5 1/2" tall - $150
Oak Burl - 8" dia x 6" tall - $200

All three sold at a four hour Saturday craft show with no haggling or hesitation to give me the cash.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=48874&d=1161560917

[Joe Melton]

I think your pricing should be based on three things: what you think of your work, what you think someone is willing to pay for it, and who is doing the selling. Of course, if you are doing the selling there has to be a balance of price and pride or you will leave the show with what you came with and your pride intact.
Some guys price their items as a multiple of the cost of materials, but I think this is the wrong way to do it. For example, a pen made with kit x and a 50-cent blank might sell for $15. If kit x is made with a four-dollar burl, it would take exactly the same amount of time to make, but would sell for, using their formula, maybe twenty dollars, even though the pen is far more attractive.
There are regional expectations of price, as has been pointed out, and these can have a dampening effect on pricing. This is why I say it matters what someone is willing to pay.
You will stumble about a bit before you get a good idea of what someone is going to be willing to pay, just as you will stumble about until you can consistently make things that are saleable.
Lastly, selling is a far different skill from woodturning, and that is why I include who is doing the selling in the formula. For example, a local high-end shop sells some of my pens for $180 and I can't sell the same pen in a craft show for $100. Heck, I wouldn't buy a pen from a seller like me! It sort of smarts to give up fifty percent as commission, but I just accept that they have the ability and venue to sell, and I don't.
This probably doesn't help at all.
Joe

[Robert McGowen]

I thought you just made stuff and your wife gave it away as presents........

Selling stuff.....hmmmmm.... have to look into this......

[John Hart]

I thought you just made stuff and your wife gave it away as presents........

Selling stuff.....hmmmmm.... have to look into this......

Good one! :D :D :D

[Mark Pruitt]

I thought you just made stuff and your wife gave it away as presents........

Selling stuff.....hmmmmm.... have to look into this......
Robert, if I don't start selling some of my work, SWMBO is going to give ME away....:eek:

[Kurt Rosenzweig]

I've never sold anything and pretty much been under the same impression as Robert Mc. I've been doing a lot of production bowl ruffing the last month or so getting ready to give the selling thing a whirl this spring. Will be watching this thread close. Keep it coming guys!:D

[Joash Boyton]

I sell my stuff in expensive galleries, and they usually have a bit to say on what the final price will be(which is good) I have a stack of 30+ bowls etc: (see the bottom of my website front page) that I usually sell for veery cheap to people I know. They are all pretty good, and that way I can sell them, and have a happy customer, and plenty left:)

Yes, charge full price if it's quality, but if you turn quality, you'll usually have a few earlier ones that you can sell cheap:)

Just a secondary opinion you might consider considering:D

Joash

[Bruce Shiverdecker]

Here's my .02 for what it's worth.

Two years ago, I was in a gallery, just looking around. Sometimes I use a Walking stick I made, when knees,etc are acting up.

The owner asked if I made it. I told her yes. Long story shortened. I took 21 pieces for her to look at, guessing she would take 5 or 6. She took ALL 21 pieces on consignment.

When we started discussing price, I took a piece and said 50.00. To my amazement she said, "No way - at least 80.00." The rest went similarly.

Her comment to back up the pricing was as follows: " You are an ARTIST and therefore should be paid for your time and talent!" In that first Christmas season, she sold about thirty bowls and boxes. She proved that she was right.

My advice is "NEVER SELL YOURSELF SHORT!" Unless the quality of your work falls into "Crafts", even as a NICE GUY, you need to make about $15.00 - $20.00 per hour + material. for instance, the three corner bowl I did out of Jim King's Queenswood (shown here in another thread) will have a $60.00 price tag.

Bruce

[Frank Kobilsek]

I think your pricing plan should have a objective aspect like Dennis and Raymound suggest and a subjective aspect to measure quality and artfulness. Raymound's plan of dia. x height, I use something similar but factor in the board foot value of the wood. I get a flyer from a high end local hardwood supplier and stick with it thru the year.

Full or gift is tough, so I have a freinds and family discount in the middle. Yes its bound to get me in trouble but I make it clear that they are getting the freinds and family discount and I would appreciate if they didn't dicuss prices with people.

Lastly and maybe the best experience I have had in regard to pricing. I was invited to be a guest featured artist at a little gallery that rotates artists every 6 months. In my home town are two full time artists who support themselves with thier work. One is a bronze sculture and the other a fabric artist. I held a little dinner party for both of thier families and after desert put them to work pricing my collection at the time. They doubled to trippled my expectations.

Frank

[Mark Pruitt]

Good thoughts so far guys--thanks. I can understand the "full or free" argument, but this situation seems a little more complicated. The person seeking to buy a turned piece from me is a co-worker, and to me there is this whole can of worms that is opened when you give a gift to a co-worker and don't give one to another co-worker with whom you have an equally good working relationship.

Within my department, I am giving gifts to each of my six colleagues (posted in this (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=46221) thread), and can do so without any quandry since I'm treating each colleague equally. So, to translate that into this current scenario, if I give a bowl free to the Cardiac Unit Manager on the Lower Level, I also need to give gifts to the Cardiac Unit Managers on Levels One, Two, and Three.

Additionally, my co-worker has made it clear to me that she will pay me. Geeesh....

Keep the comments coming.

[Christopher Hunter]

O.k.
My turn--
I have done 2 shows the last few months ---
My first show I charged about $30-40 for a 10" by 3" which was quite low, but being a nice guy that I am, I thought I was doing a service to the customer---
The first 10 minutes I opened a friend came up to me and bought my 3 best pieces ----I asked if I could keep them at the table till the end of the show and she agreed---
I put a sold tag on them and still had everyone asking to purchase them at a higher price >>>>>:eek:
The next show, I took a big jump making that same size bowl for about $80-90 and up they went in price --
I sold about the same dollar amount as at the other show--- the thing is,,
I got so much more from just a few bowls sold that made it worth it...
bottom line-- price higher than you should and you will still feel good at the end of the day...
if you don't sell that many, you still walk away with material for the next show--
don't be afraid to price high, YOU ARE WORTH IT---
Thanks to my friend at the first show.. for showing me that very same thing!!!
--Chris

[Raymond Overman]

Within my department, I am giving gifts to each of my six colleagues (posted in this (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=46221) thread), and can do so without any quandry since I'm treating each colleague equally. So, to translate that into this current scenario, if I give a bowl free to the Cardiac Unit Manager on the Lower Level, I also need to give gifts to the Cardiac Unit Managers on Levels One, Two, and Three.


There is no quandry Mark. You give the gifts you want to your colleagues and sell the piece to the manager on level one for a fair price (to both of you). I have over 175 people in my building that know me by name, have seen my work because I often take new pieces in and set them around the cube a couple of days, and are aware that I sell my work. I've given some pens and other pieces and even donated pieces to their charitable causes but I can't give one to everybody. When it comes time to do business, they know that I sell my pieces for a fair price and are willing to pay it.

[Joe Mioux]

As an un-asked for down-payment a friend just gave me a case of various Cote-du-Rhones.

Now I better start builiding that table..

[Raymond Overman]

As an un-asked for down-payment a friend just gave me a case of various Cote-du-Rhones.

Now I better start builiding that table..

Heck, I have friends that I'd make a bowl for a case of PBR but that's kind of like giving it to them and I would share the beer.

[Paul Downes]

Selling price is influenced by motivating factors. If you want to just turn average wooden pens or whatever, you can just look at other websites and talk to other turners as you are here. If you want to become an 'artist' you might be able to sell for high cotton. I just wonder about the 'starving artist' thing.
Marketing and selling is a talent or skill in it's own right. I've got 75 more platinum slimlines to turn for a client. (GLOAT). I am working on getting faster and eliminating as much time from the process as possible. This is so I can pass on a savings to the customer and still make a decent rate. I want to keep him as a steady customer, and helping him increase his profit margine has increased the orders for pens. Plus, every time he sells one of his kits, at least 4 people will be using, or looking at my product, and have a reference to my website. I don't know yet, but it might even make sense to sell pens to him as a 'loss leader' just because they could mean a whole lot of custom, higher end pen orders. Heck, I might just become an 'artist' someday. :D

[George Tokarev]

All kinds of answers, what?

I charge what I charge, regardless the comments that I could get more here or there. Most of those come from gallery haunters, and there's a 30% or more fee there, so I don't do it. I rotate a number of shows, and people who like my stuff show up or call up between shows and buy.

I charge what I charge regardless people who say I owe it to some other turner to keep the price up so s/he can make a living on turnings. I'm not trying to make a living, I'm trying to turn wood.

Five bucks on anything over twenty goes for overhead. Takes care of electricity, insurance, sandpaper and that next tool I want to try. Twenty five bucks an hour for my time, though this has to be a bit more flexible, because sometimes I get involved in a piece and spend more than average because I'm trying things out. Replacement factor is the third part. Some wood is not common, some sizes more difficult to come by than others. Fifty to 100% premium.

That satisfies me, and sells enough to allow me to keep turning, which is what I like to do. Makes the smaller bowl come in at $30 minimum, which barely covers my formula, because almost any bowl takes an hour by the time you rough and re-turn. I get some back on those I let warp as "art." The 15" salad bowl in plain vanilla maple that sells for $65 will be a hundred in curly, a hundred fifty in wow is that curly! Don't want to ask about birdseye.

With the hourly/flat cost method I have a good starting point for vases, goblets, pretty much anything I want to turn. Main thing is to turn, and I'd rather sell than burn.

Friends get the first free, then they reimburse at the same rate as a regular customer. More if they commission something I'd rather not turn.

[Adam Howard]

This is a good thread. Lots of useful information.

I don't think you really have too much of a quandry here. I'd simply explain to your friend that they are getting a special deal, and to please not discuss pricing with others. I'm sure they will understand your concern and respect your wishes. If not, maybe they SHOULD be charged full price.

I sell my work, and it helps pay for extra goodies around Christmas time for the kids, and helps along the vacation fund from time to time. I've got a very loose pricing structure, no distinct formula. I price the work at a level where I think it would sell, and still give me a reasonable return for my efforts. In the end, that is what is important to you. For some folks that means making $40-60/hour, for others $10-20.

Once in awhile I clean out the coffers by selling off inventory that's not moving, for cheap. I make it clear that this is not the normal pricing structure.

The piece, and how well it speaks to me, is my best guideline for pricing. for example, I may have a 7x2 inch bowl. In walnut I'd start around $40. The same one in Curly Aussie Myrtle fetches $125, no problem, even though the labor in each one would be very similar. Pricing is so subjective because customer's purchases are. Some folks may view your work and say "no way" based on a high price. Two minutes later, someone sees it and has to have it, no matter the price.

I think what I'm getting at is that you have to decide what pricing makes you happy. I wouldn't worry too much about underpricing the competition. The market is HUGE, and a few sales here and there won't make that large of an impact. If it gets to that point, you'll need to quit your day job and charge more for your bowls. :D

I think the best advise has already been said here. Try to be fair to yourself. We all have a tendency to underestimate the value of our work. Shoot high, you might just hit it. If you shoot low, you surely will.

Best regards,

Adam.

[Reed Gray]

If things aren't selling you can always lower the price. If things are selling too fast, you can't bump up the prices, at least not until the next show. I price my bowls (and other things too) according to how much I like the piece, how rare or unusual the wood is, size, and somewhat to compensate for time tools, travel, sales tax, etc. A 14 inch black walnut bowl with some figure is around $200. A 6 inch bowl is about $20 to $25. It depends.I haven't been able to come up with a formula.
robo hippy