Granite & Marble engraving

[Gary Hair]

I am having trouble engraving granite. I have engraved marble with fantastic results but I can’t seem to get anything even passable in granite. I tried the exact same settings I use with marble and all I get is a pretty muted engraving with almost no contrast or detail. The marble gives me a beautiful image, pretty close to a b&w photo and that’s why the granite is so frustrating. I have searched the internet and found lots of people that engrave granite and look like they are getting results that compare well to my results with marble.

I purchased “absolute black granite” from a local tile shop and I think that is what most others are using. I have tried to find a local source for “absolute black marble” but when I search for “absolute black” the only thing that comes up is granite. So, I guess my question is two parts – first, who is using granite and what results are you getting (and how), and second, where are you finding absolute black marble?

I have searched here and can’t find anything that really addresses granite – most posts about “absolute black” talk about marble.

Thanks for any help!
Gary

[Dave Jones]

This thread mentions having to reduce power on granite:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=364393

[Lee DeRaud]

I get my black granite tiles from a very obscure source: Home Depot. :cool: I've looked at some others at specialized tile stores, and can't tell the difference...except maybe price.

Granite has less "dynamic range" than marble: it's fine (great, actually) for 1-bit B&W designs and the like, much less so for detailed photos without a lot of contrast. And yes, using too much power will reduce the dynamic range even further. Coating the tile with ArmorAll before engraving (sometimes) helps.

[Bill Cunningham]

Half the battle is getting a good 2bit file from the photo to engrave..The generic granite parameter in photograv seems to work.. I pickup interesting shapes, chunks of granite from a local monument company.. I went in to ask them about random pieces, and he pointed to a pile, and said take whatever you want.. hell take it all if you want.. Glad to get rid of it..
The first pic is probably the worst type of granite to put photos on, it has 'big' quartz flakes all through it, but it does work (size is abt. 6" x 9").. The second piece is a sample of a 'line art' drawn picture, into a random chunk..(size 19.5" x 8.25" weight 9.9 lbs) I've looked at the black granite at home depot, they just started stocking it here and they call it 'absoloute black' the quartz is in tiny specks, so it may work well.. A 12 x 12: here (Ontario Canada) is $6.95 a piece.. Maybe I'll pick one up, and try it...

[Gary Hair]

Well it took a bit of experimenting and a few 12x12 tiles but I finally got it figured out. I ended up getting the best results using S=40, P=40, 300DPI. Higher resolution lost some detail and higher speed and lower power did the same. It's been an interesting day but at least I have some pretty nice results to show for it. I have a meeting tomorrow with someone very interested in the results!

thanks to everyone for your help, it got me going in the right direction.

Gary

[Gary Hair]

Here is the granite piece I was working on. I am pleased, hopefully the customer will be too.

51763

[pat bogarin]

hi gary, try artistic-laser. i have used their black granite and im very pleased to say the least. you will be happy. mike wallace told me about them and i tried their granite. it has very tight graining and i can barely tell the difference from black marble and their black granite.
pat bogarin

[Jim Brodkorb Jr.]

Gary, I think your granite piece turned out very nice. I am fairly new to engraving. I have had the engraver for a while but just now starting to use it more. I am trying to engrave on a marble piece using photograv and can't seem to get the image to look right. I have a scanned in black and white picture. I adjusted all the settings like photograv wants (I think) and the faces have no detail. The clothing doesn't have any detail either. I have a brick wall and a tree in the background that turn out great. Any tips or ideas? Did you use photograv for your image?

Thanks for any help from the group.. this forum is great. I love to see people with a common interest helping each other out.

Jim

[Mark Plotkin]

I just boxed two marble plaques up I did for xmas. They came out great.
Here is my formula. The tiles come from Laser Bits, I know people say they are pricey, but I have had good luck with them and they have always sent out replacements when some get damaged in shipping.
I layout my artwork in corel and start with a color image. I normally powerclip into a shape so I can have an outline if needed. I resample the photo to 300dpi. Next I layout any artwork or text. When I am happy with the layout, I extact the photo, edit bitmap into photopaint and convert to 8bit grey scale, then save as a bmp photo into my engraving photo folder. Next I open photograv, open the bmp photo, use the "new" paramaters for black marble and auto process, then save the photo again to my folder, I use an eng in the name for ease of finding the right one.
Next I import the engraving photo back into corel and powerclip or place over the color image for exact placement. At this point I delete the color image or put it onto its own layer and turn off printing. I use the following settings for an epilog mini 45w. Power 40 Speed 75 dpi 300.
I looked at my log book and have done over 50 tiles this way. I find the photo at 300dpi and the lasering at 300dpi makes a big difference. I have used some other setting depending on the tiles, but this is the one I have had the best luck with. I have found when I use more power or slower speed I get banding on the pure white parts. There is a lot of trial and error that goes into marble, but as most know once you get it right the results are spectacular!

Hope this helps.

[Gary Hair]

Gary, I think your granite piece turned out very nice. I am fairly new to engraving. I have had the engraver for a while but just now starting to use it more. I am trying to engrave on a marble piece using photograv and can't seem to get the image to look right. I have a scanned in black and white picture. I adjusted all the settings like photograv wants (I think) and the faces have no detail. The clothing doesn't have any detail either. I have a brick wall and a tree in the background that turn out great. Any tips or ideas? Did you use photograv for your image?

Thanks for any help from the group.. this forum is great. I love to see people with a common interest helping each other out.

Jim

Jim,
Thanks for the compliment. Although my speed/power settings are different than his, Mark wrote great instructions on how to do marble. If you follow those directions you will have great results. If your results are not great then work with the speed/power settings. Marble can take more power and lower speed than granite. I use S30/P100 for Marble and S40/P40 for granite - on a 30W machine.
Good luck and let us know how it turns out!

Gary

Edit: if you just can't get it to work send me the original scan, your export from PhotoGrav and your CDR file. I would be more than happy to try it on my machine.

[Mike Klafehn]

Here is an online ad I received for granite engraving via SAM's. I don't have my laser yet, so can't comment on the price. Comments...



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Select Quantity, then click "Add to Cart"


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#166627
Choose Your List"); var aReturn = myShoppingList(); var arrMSList = aReturn[0]; var arrCNPList = aReturn[1]; var maxLength=15; if (true){ document.write("--------------------------Online:"); } if (arrMSList != null && true){ var oShoppingListNamesMS = arrMSList.split("|"); for(i=0;i maxLength){ str2 = str2.substring(0,maxLength-3) + "..."; } document.write(" " + str2 + ""); } } } if (true){ document.write(" *Create new list"); } if (false){ document.write("--------------------------Click 'n' Pull®:"); } if (arrCNPList != null && false){ var oShoppingListNamesCnP = arrCNPList.split("|"); for(i=0;i maxLength){ str2 = str2.substring(0,maxLength-3) + "..."; } document.write(" " + str2 + ""); } } } if (false){ document.write(" *Create new list"); } }else{ document.write("Login for Lists"); } document.write(""); //--> Login for Lists



http://graphics.samsclub.com/images/item-tab_overview0.gif
http://graphics.samsclub.com/images/item-tab_spec1.gif (http://www.samsclub.com/shopping/navigate.do?catg=535&item=341448&prDeTab=2#A)
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[Vicky Orsini]

Why can't Sam's Club stick with selling diapers by the case-load and leave us alone?? :(

[Jim Brodkorb Jr.]

Here is a picture of the results of your help. Thanks a bunch.

I think it turned out pretty good. I'm sure with practice they will get better. Sorry about the glare from the flash.

Thanks again for the help.

[Gary Hair]

Here is a picture of the results of your help. Thanks a bunch.

I think it turned out pretty good. I'm sure with practice they will get better. Sorry about the glare from the flash.

Thanks again for the help.

Very nice Jim!

[Scott Bender]

These threads have been very helpful to me but I'm still new to laser engraving and I just can't seem to get my granite photo engravings to look as good as many I've seen others do. They always seem to come out too dark even tho they look plenty bright when I'm doing the contrast/brightness settings and I've followed the directions of the helpful youtube videos posted on here as well. Maybe my settings aren't correct. I have a 50 watt epilog mini and have tried multiple settings but the latest I've been trying is 90 spd 20 power and 100 spd 30 power for a 300 dpi image and while they don't look horrible they could definitely use some improvements. Any suggestions on a better setting for 50 watt lasers? It seems most people on here use 35watt ones.

[Gary Hair]

Wow, this is a blast from the past... It's hard to believe that was over 6 years ago and I had just started laser engraving a short three months prior! Now I'm lasering (with the same laser no less), dye sublimating, sandcarving and cnc milling/engraving. Things have sure changed!

Try lower power and slower speed, maybe 30 power and 50 speed.

Gary

[Vicki Rivrud]

Hi Scott,
Perhaps you could post a pix?

I usually "brighten" my granite engraving with either stone fill (Laserbits ) White Gilders Wax, white rub 'n buff or even white oil paint. It depends on the application - indoors or outdoors.

It just makes the engraving pop!

Hope that helps,
Vicki

[Scott Bender]

Thanks for the prompt replies! If I could find my digital camera I would post a pic but it apparently is hiding from me... I'll give the 30/50 setting a try and see what happens, thanks for the suggestion. :)

Yeah I use white oil paint to make the engravings pop some more but it's still nowhere as good as some of the very excellent engravings you guys have posted on here... at least in my opinion. I just wont be happy until I can do something at least close to those.

[Vicki Rivrud]

Hi Scott,
What type of granite are you using? I'm sure you know that all granite is not created equal.

When possible I use absolute black-as black as possible.

There have been a few times that a customer has brought me giant flecked colored granite - what a challenge.

Looking forward to you photos,
Vicki

[Scott Bender]

Yay! I finally found the camera!

I'm using the Home Depot 12x12 black granite tiles. This simple pic is my latest at 100spd 30 power, and I think it came out okay, but looks a lot brighter from the flash(I need to learn how to take a picture :P ), and I think I need to engrave over the name again as I used the same setting as I did for the rest of the pic. I haven't applied any paint to brighten it up yet. Any suggestions on improving would be appreciated. :)

248327

I tried the 50/30 setting and it seems to be too much power for the speed as most of the facial details were lost. :(

[Joseph Belangia]

Hey Scott

Since you had a dog pic up, I thought maybe some comparison kinda stuff might help. Check it.

248351

The devil lies in the details...the stuff with the power settings--highly important, so pay attention to those folks above who have made some great suggestions in that arena. Where I can be of some help perhaps is letting you know that to really get the maximum out of your materials, you have to utilize the material to your advantage. That means using the black of the granite to bring out some depth to that doggie. My Wacom tablet and pen are my best pals in this business, so whatever photo-editing program you have, use it.

Provide some separation. Even though the dog in my pic was black, I was able to bring that out with the "holy light" of lightly lasered area behind him. Cap that off with some white highlights on the ears to reverse the eye focus, and you're cooking with gravy. Gravy. Yum.

Dodge and Burn. Don't be afraid to utilize the black of the granite to bring out those darker areas. The eyes, the ears, the nose and lower jawline need to really pop with black on your image. Remember...you're a human with a brain, interpreting an image that a computer will try and interpret, that a freakin' laser will then try and vaporize off of a surface created by molten earth. Not exactly the cleanest of parameters to deal with, so what you think is dark on your computer screen, is obviously not dark enough. Get in there with that pointer or pen, and scribble those areas darker. Same goes for highlights. Accentuate those hairs around the edges. This is kind of like putting a tattoo on a piece of rock. Make your darks and light work for you, and make them count.

Backfill. This is essential for the longevity of the piece and providing the contrast that you saw on your computer screen. I use Vanson heavy printing ink..Brilliant White. Good stuff.


To be honest, you've just got to put on your graphics designer hat when you do these things and know going into it that it will take some effort to get a great result. Time and practice are the best solutions for that. I've gotten the progressions and know what my machine gives me vs. what is on the screen. Sometimes what you see on your screen will look wildly inappropriate for what result you are expecting. The nature of the beast. Gotta run at this moment, but I'll pop back in and see how things are going for you.

Work on those edges of the fur. Define his shape more. Make it pop off that background by giving it some darker definition to the fur.

[Scott Bender]

Thanks for the detailed response. I'll try to use what you've suggested. You're pic is definitely the kind of quality I'm going for. Good job! :)

Is it pretty standard to do a lot of editing after doing the gold method or running a picture through a program like Engrave Lab? Or is that all supposed to happen prior to doing any of those things?

[Scott Shepherd]

Joseph, that's one of the best photos I've ever seen posted on this forum on granite. Really beautiful work.

Scott, to answer your question and add a little to what Joseph said, 100% forget what you see on the screen. It has nothing at all to do with the end result. You could have the best image ever on the screen and it would engrave horrible. I'd guess that the photo Joseph used to produce his image wouldn't look very good on a monitor or if you printed it. His point (I think) and mine, is to learn what you need the image to look like.

Let's take your example. You need to tone all that white down the dog's front way down. Darken that area a good deal. Then, around the face, make the dark areas darker. You don't want any (or very little) really bright white, for that dog, in my opinion.

Yes, it's VERY common to have to edit your photos like that. Sure, you can take a normal photo and push "print" and it'll give a result that most people will say "That's nice" to, or you can learn what you need to do to get the best results and people will say "WOW, that's stunning" when they see your work. Just depends what you want to do.

Once you understand what you need a photo to look like, it's normally done in minutes, not hours.

[Scott Bender]

Yeah the problem for me is knowing what it should like before I send it to the laser. I thought I wasn't making it bright enough now it looks like I'm making it too bright. Can any of you supply me with a photo that's ready to engrave(but not inverted) that I can see to get an idea how it should look? Thanks alot!!

[Gary Hair]

I thought maybe some comparison kinda stuff might help. Check it.

Fantastic work Joseph!!!

[Dan Hintz]

Joseph, that's one of the best photos I've ever seen posted on this forum on granite. Really beautiful work.
Agreed!

I've been a big proponent of the faded background since the beginning... the hard cutout many use simply looks too harsh. A plain background with a gaussian blur is the best bet in most cases.

[Joseph Belangia]

Thanks for the compliments, folks! I learn a lot of things from this forum.

Mr. Shepard is right on the money when he talks about minutes vs. hours. I know a great deal of this stuff seems overwhelming at first....and if you aren't familiar with photo-editing programs, the instantaneous reaction is to think "Damn...I gotta learn another computer program?"

Yeah...you kinda do. But just certain things about that program that will give you the results you need. Knowing every function or command is way stressful. But, you do pick up some knowledge in areas that can assist you in other ways. For example, as a result of hours of practice, screw-up's, almost there's, and ah-ha's!, I gained enough experience with photo-editing to also offer photo restoration as a service to my customers. Many of the same functions I was already doing to achieve great results on granite and marble were pretty translatable over to that particular market without a great deal of learning curve time investment.

If you find you will be doing a great deal of this type of stuff, then I strongly recommend getting something like a Wacom tablet and pen to keep yourself from getting carpel-tunnel by trying to click a mouse about a jillion times to create an effect for something. They make life a whole lot easier..you can get in there and really knock out those little detail elements that make an image stand out really quickly.

Hey...you can also try this: Time yourself. Seriously...I know it sounds kinda cornball, but take an image and try to get it exactly like you would present to a customer, and then keep doing it over and over again. Try to beat your record while still putting out solid quality. If you try that drill, pretty soon, you will be able to take just about any image and "see the Matrix, Neo" and know exactly all the steps you would take to get it tight within a quick look at it.

Good luck with your first steps out into this ledge....we're here if you need help.