Radial vs table saw

[Joe Trotter]

I have access to my FIL radial arm saw, in fact it is in my garage now. Is there any advantage to buying a table saw?

Can a dado blade be put on a radial arm saw? Last weekend I cut some dados on the RAS using a stop and it took me a while. It wasnt anything fancy since it was for the inside of a solar collector I was building for my shop.

So as a newbie to this wood working adventure I am wondering if I can get by on a RAS, CMS, router, bandsaw (small), scroll saw, belt sander (homemade), and a few hand tools. Oh and a kreg pocket jig I just bought to finish my work bench.

I plan on making some drawres for a roll around cart for my shop, and the cart itself (this issue of shop notes). I may try a hand at my Dad's old intarsia patterns, and so on.

As I get more serious I will aquire more tools, I am sure of that :)

Thanks, Joe

[Jim O'Dell]

My first big tool was a RAS. I built a complete set of kitchen cabinets with it. Daddos work fine, and you can even do some shaping with the right accessories, and shaloow cuts. I was always careful to have spring loaded tie downs in use, and I never felt afraid of the unit as some report that they are. When It died, I got a TS to replace it!! Jim.

[Allen Bookout]

You can put a dado blade on a RAS. There are a lot of things that you can use on it. I got by with one for years without a tablesaw. It is just that it is much easier to do many things on the tablesaw. Since you are just starting I would say give it a try and then if you determine that you want to stay in the hobby/business expand at that time.

I will say that you really have to be careful doing some things on that saw. I think that kickbacks and jams when ripping are the most dangerous problems. Stay well out of line for any type of kickbacks when ripping. No cross arm crosscuts. Just be really careful and it can be a very usefull tool. You might want to do a search and get some safety guidelines.

If I can find my old book on my old saw I will contact you and send it your way, but I think that I threw it away. I will look today.

I just went out and looked for the book and cannot find it. Guess that I dumped it also.

[Cory Newman]

Within reason a radial arm saw will do everything a tablesaw will do - within the size constraints of the saw. You couldn't cut a piece of plywood in half with it etc.

Its been my experience that the radial arm saw is typically not quite as accurate as a tablesaw (although some certainly are)

Rip cuts on the radial arm saw have never been my favorite thing to do.

[CPeter James]

Actually for dados, a RAS is better than a table say as you can see what you are doing. I used a RAS for 30 years building our house, barn and shop and finally when Sears had the recall on all of them sold mine back for $100. Two months later, I bought a '50s vintage Dewalt 10" RAS just to do dados.

[Jim Becker]

CPeter brings up a good point. You didn't specific "what" RAS you have out in the garage. There are quite a few of the consumer-oriented machines from the past that were subject to recall for safety reasons. Some were able to be retrofitted; others were subject to a decommisioning. Some of the older "industrial" machines, like the big Dewalt are really sweet...if you have the space for them.

RAS can be a functional tool in the shop if kept in good condition and...the correct blades are used. Negative hook blades are required for safety to help mitigate "climbing" of the cutter head. They can do a lot of things that a table saw is commonly used for and yes, many can accept a dado head for cutting dados and grooves.

That said, my preference would still be the table saw combined with a guided saw system for breaking down large sheet goods and cross-cutting long panels.

[glenn bradley]

Some consider the RAS the most dangerous saw in their shop. I miss mine and have no problem with them. The reach is the limiting factor and support of large panels is different than say 15 square feet of TS surface. But I agree that you should try it for awhile. If I had to pick one, I'd go TS but that's me; that doesn't make it right for you. Consider the projects you want to do and go from there.

[Allen Bookout]

There are some other things that you can do with it that I really missed and had to buy other tools to take the place of those things. You can use a grinding wheel and a buffing wheel. I also had a molding head that worked pretty good. On mine you could screw on a chuck on the opposite side of the motor and use it for a drum sander or whatever else that can be put in a chuck and can be operated at high speeds. Granted, it did not do these things as well as dedicated machines but it worked.

The reason that I got rid of mine is that it was one of the old Sear's models that could not be upgraded so I just dumped it.

[Frank Hagan]

I had one, and liked it. I find ripping long, narrow pieces easier on the table saw, and plowing a dado along the length of a board is more accurate on my table saw than it was on my RAS. The reason was that the arm tended to move up as the stock was fed through, so I had varying depth in the dado cut. It died an ignoble death at the hands of a woodworker feeding melamine particle board through it .... I watched "helplessly" as the blade bound and, afraid to let go of the panel, took too long to shimmy around to where I could hit the power switch.

But, I'm a big believer that you play the hand you're dealt. I would go ahead and keep the RAS, and invest in other tools when you need to do a specific job: for plowing a dado, invest in a router and make a guide jig; for cutting sheet goods, consider something like the Eureka EZ (or whatever it is) or a Festool system (or a good circular saw and a guide jig you make).
I actually think the guided circular saw idea is a good one for any beginner who has a beginning shop; its not a tool purchase you'll ever feel sorry about, as you can always use it. And its much safer to use on sheet goods.

One of the things that you have to watch with a RAS is ripping ... pay attention to how you position the saw head. The saw head should be marked with lettering that says something like (DO NOT RIP FROM THIS SIDE) or (RIP FROM THIS SIDE). If you try to feed stock into the blade the wrong way you get a lesson in physics and a hole in a wall (if you're lucky).

And with sheet goods, having good infeed and outfeed support is necessary; think about how you'll get to that power button if something happens in the first foot of the cut, and you're standing about 8' away from it! ;)

[Randal Stevenson]

Those should help make your decision. As I am sure you grew up learning about that saw, you may be more comfortable with it, then others. It's better for crosscuts/dado's and can be used for rips, in the same way a tablesaw excels at rips, and can be used for crosscuts/dado's.
If you are using thinner material (less then two inches), I would also consider the guided circular saw systems, as they might be a much better value, and also help with plywood breakdown.
Use what you have, build from there, then use the excuse, when you want a new tool, for a project.

[Mitchell Andrus]

I started with a RAS. A good table saw with a separate miter saw is a safer and more accurate set of tools.

I din't miss my RAS one bit.

Mitch

[Lou Morrissette]

I've got an old Craftsman that I've had since the late seventies. I've built two houses with it, sided probably 40 houses and it now sits proudly at the end of my cutting bench for cutting multiple pieces. I agree that the table saw is better suited for ripping and doing fine work and it is kind of a PITA for cutting angles but you can do most anything on a RAS that you can do on the table saw. As Jim pointed out, a negative hook angle on the blade is a good idea, especially if you're not experienced with the saw. Good luck.

Lou

[John Fry]

I have both. I use the RAZ mostly for "breaking down" rough lumber (crosscuts) into manageable sizes before milling. I have it rigged with spacers against the fence on the left side of the blade, so it won't bind when cutting bowed and crooked boards. By using the RAZ, I can keep my CSMS in good alignment for finish cuts only. I also use the RAZ when needed for large timber dados.

I'm just too used to my table saw for my normal daily work to ever think I could get along without it.

[David Klug]

I had one, and liked it. I find ripping long, narrow pieces easier on the table saw, and plowing a dado along the length of a board is more accurate on my table saw than it was on my RAS. The reason was that the arm tended to move up as the stock was fed through, so I had varying depth in the dado cut. It died an ignoble death at the hands of a woodworker feeding melamine particle board through it .... I watched "helplessly" as the blade bound and, afraid to let go of the panel, took too long to shimmy around to where I could hit the power switch.

But, I'm a big believer that you play the hand you're dealt. I would go ahead and keep the RAS, and invest in other tools when you need to do a specific job: for plowing a dado, invest in a router and make a guide jig; for cutting sheet goods, consider something like the Eureka EZ (or whatever it is) or a Festool system (or a good circular saw and a guide jig you make).
I actually think the guided circular saw idea is a good one for any beginner who has a beginning shop; its not a tool purchase you'll ever feel sorry about, as you can always use it. And its much safer to use on sheet goods.

One of the things that you have to watch with a RAS is ripping ... pay attention to how you position the saw head. The saw head should be marked with lettering that says something like (DO NOT RIP FROM THIS SIDE) or (RIP FROM THIS SIDE). If you try to feed stock into the blade the wrong way you get a lesson in physics and a hole in a wall (if you're lucky).

And with sheet goods, having good infeed and outfeed support is necessary; think about how you'll get to that power button if something happens in the first foot of the cut, and you're standing about 8' away from it! ;)
One of the things that you have to watch with a RAS is ripping ... pay attention to how you position the saw head. The saw head should be marked with lettering that says something like (DO NOT RIP FROM THIS SIDE) or (RIP FROM THIS SIDE). If you try to feed stock into the blade the wrong way you get a lesson in physics and a hole in a wall (if you're lucky).

Or in my case it went sailing out the door into the street. I was very happy that there wasn't a car going by at that time.

DK

[Joe Trotter]

WOW, thanks for all the advice guy's. I wasnt expecting so much feedback.

I dont know what model it is, I havent found a name on it, it is quite old.

I use a guide for my circuilar saw for ripping 4X8 sheets. I watched Tommy make one on this old house so I went out in the garage and made a couple.

I wasnt aware of some of the dangers so I am glad that was brought up.

I have been thinking about buying a table saw but my budget is limited at this point. I might be able so spend 150 - 170 after Christmas but it doesnt appear that will get me much.

I appreciate the help you all have given me. I will pitch in a contribution when we get throuigh Christmas this year.

By the way, I am 50, but I am just getting interested in this hobby. It sure has been relaxing to go out in the garage and cut up some wood :)

I am amazed at the talents I have seen here.

Joe

[Reg Mitchell]

I started with a RAS. A good table saw with a separate miter saw is a safer and more accurate set of tools.

I din't miss my RAS one bit.

Mitch
I think its the type and model of saw you are talking about. I have a unipont RAS that is made by Northfield. once set it is as accurate as any miter saw and holds dims very good. The cheeper RAS are sloppy and cumbersome to get right to start with. There are a few that are great to use but they are harder to find and not too cheep unless you can restore one.

[Seth Poorman]

If I had to buy one it would be a TS !

[Ron Blaise]

Joe, and I can't really add to what you've been told, but I use both frequently. I would go with a TS over a radial any day. I got the RAS dirt cheap, in unused condition so just couldn't turn it down. I use the RAS for cross, and angle cuts and Dado's. Saves me from having to use a sled on the TS. But you can do all that on a TS anyway. That's what I would buy, given a choice.

[Basil Rathbone]

Joe, this thread must be unique in the sense that it does not bash RAS's. They really can be great saw, but like cars, there are Yugo's and Porsches.

If you have a Porsche, visit the Dewalt Radial Arm saw forum and get some of the books that are recommended there. You don't have to have a dewalt to feel at home there but i am sure you will learn a lot.

Safety is always number one, so if you have a good saw and use it properly and safely, it should give you continuing pride in your work.

[Rob Diz]

I have my father's RAS. It was the only stationary tool in his shop, and he made plenty of fine furniture. With that said, when the tools came to my shop, the first thing I did was buy a TS. Sure, the RAS is great for some tasks - cross-cutting long pieces of rough lumber. It is also a very dangerous tool. (my uncle gave it to my father after a kick-back incident he had while ripping a board) Because you are pulling a moving blade toward you, you have to be aware of where your hands are at all times. The TS does not include that danger.

Based on comments here and other forums, I have a neg hook blade on my RAS now. I also use the RAS more like a CSMS than for any other purpose. One thing to keep in mind is that the table and the fence need to be square to the blade, or any specific cuts will be off. I found that a cross-cut sled allows me to make much better cuts than I can get on the RAS.

With all of htat said, while I am short on space, I have no plans to get rid of my RAS. For me, using the RAS sure beats the heck out of pulling out my CS for rough cutting lumber. I have not yet used it for Dados, but that's because the Dados I have cut are longer than the pull on my RAS. I'm sure for shorter dados, it would be nice to have.

[Don Bullock]

Many years ago I did a lot of work on My dad's RAS, but has already been stated, ripping wasn't one of them. I had a small table saw for that. Yes, dados are easier, but the longer they are, the more possibility that they won't be square. The arms usually have a little flex in them. Since I'm planning to work with sheets of plywood I'm glad that I now have a bigger TS. I have a good TS and find it very useful, but I do miss the RAS for some things. In my limited experience a good TS is a must for many projects.

[Lee Schierer]

I have both a RAS and a TS. I bought the RAS first and used it quite a bit when it was all I had. When we moved into the present house, I bought a TS. I use the TS about 99% of the time. The Radial gets used mostly when I have a setup on the TS I don't want to change and need to cut something.

The danagers others pointed out are real. The RAS demands respect and will not forgive sloppy setups or hurried work. If set up correctly with the tips of hte blade down into the table surface like they are supposed to be, the chances of a kickback are no greater than with a TS. The set up is time consuming to get true 90 and 45 degree cuts. For carpentry work, it is probably faster than a TS. For cabinet making a TS will be far more useful.