Questions about gouges

[Jeff Borges]

Hi guys, recently back at this spinny stuff. I was wondering what the difference is between a gouge and scraper (bowl scraper) and why the scrapers seem to be so much larger. Use and function seems similar to me the rookie.

Also, I see the different grinds for the tip, the fingernail, regular....etc...are they for different uses (cuts) or is one just an improvement over another


Thanks

Jeff

[Stephen Hibbs]

While I can't pretend to be knowledgeable on the subject, I can offer some advice. A scraper is a big, flat, round-nosed tool that you use to clean up the bottoms and sides of stuff, mostly into endgrain. Gouges are for most of the dirty work hollowing and shaping bowls (bowl gouges) or spindles(spindle gouges). The pointier the gouge grind, the more agressive you're supposed to be (I think). I have a pointy grind on my bowl gouge, and I like it. It's a bit harder to get a clean cut with a pointy grind, but the scraper takes care of the rest. If you have a bowl gouge (~1/2 inch) and a scraper, you are pretty much set. I use only a bowl gouge and the HF 8 piece set.

[Dennis Peacock]

Jeff,

Bowl gouges are mostly used with a fingernail type grind because it works and works very well all the while allowing the turner to maintain control of the cut by rubbing the bevel. Scrapers are cutters too but most often are used to refine a shape/form slightly or clean up the inside/outside of a forum via very lite tool contact with the spinning wood. Scrapers aren't very aggressive in nature while a bowl gouge, like my 5/8" P&N with a fingernail grind on it will hog off wood faster than you can blink an eye. I've had curls as wide as 1/2" or more coming off the gouge at a very constant rate. Majority of the time I use a scraper to refine the inside of a bowl to get a more pleasing transition or clean up some rough tool marks.

So there....confused more than ever now? :rolleyes: :D

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Jeff..........I relatively new at this too! Here's my take on it.

A gouge cuts......A scraper scrapes.......A bowl gouge or spindle gouge is used to take the majority of material out. The scraper is used to clean up the mistakes I make with my gouge....little ridges...etc. The scraper will take smaller amounts and therefore can be used in a little more of a controlled manner. Because of the way the scraper works....you hang it over the tool rest and keep the handle higher than the scraping edge it is usually thicker because of the mechanical leverage. The gouge is worked usually at or above the tool rest and therefore it doesn't have to be as thick.

I use a 3/8" gouge and never feel intimidated. When I use my small round nose scraper.....presented at the downward angle....whew! And ...it often vibrates.....recently I purchased a Sorby Extra Heavy Duty bowl scraper....a full 21" long and 1/2" thick......That thing has some mass and I'm not in the least intimidated and.....very little vibration....there is something to be said about MASS!

[Jeff Borges]

Thanks guys, and no thats not confusing.
Basically then, I should begin a bowl with a gouge for roughing.. and then come back and clean it up with the scraper (light touches)?

I have been purchasing the sorby HSS tools, they seem good. Of course I have nothing to comparre them to. (next is a new lathe I have an OLLLLD Dunlap lathe:eek: )

[Stephen Hibbs]

Sounds like you've caught on pretty quickly. It's probably a good idea to pick the harbor freight 8 piece HSS set as well. It's like $40 tops, and has all the miscellaneous tools you may need here or there. Mostly good for spindle work though.

[byron constantine]

I have a 5/8 gouge coming in the mail,bought
it from rich johnson in San Jose Ca. By the way he is a good one to
do business with. I am sure the gouge has the regular grind and
how do i go about putting the ellsworth grind on it? I don't have a
wolverine jig as of yet,but i am in the process of making one. Thanks byron

Bowl gouges are mostly used with a fingernail type grind because it works and works very well all the while allowing the turner to maintain control of the cut by rubbing the bevel. Scrapers are cutters too but most often are used to refine a shape/form slightly or clean up the inside/outside of a forum via very lite tool contact with the spinning wood. Scrapers aren't very aggressive in nature while a bowl gouge, like my 5/8" P&N with a fingernail grind on it will hog off wood faster than you can blink an eye. I've had curls as wide as 1/2" or more coming off the gouge at a very constant rate. Majority of the time I use a scraper to refine the inside of a bowl to get a more pleasing transition or clean up some rough tool marks.

So there....confused more than ever now? :rolleyes: :D[/quote]

[Andy Hoyt]

Lots of good advice in here guys. But I thought it might be wise if we don't get caught up in a game of definitions tag.

Using just the term gouge can be misleading to anyone making an assumption about what type gouge to which you're referring.

There are spindle gouges, spindle roughing gouges, detail gouges, and bowl gouges. Each has a specific intended application; and an occasional cross-use.

I think we have an obligation to the newer turners in here to be specific.

[George Tokarev]

The gouge is generally used to cut across the wood fibers, the scraper to push into the wood fibers. You position the gouge for good control and try to have the edge progress through the cut with as much cut to peel ratio as you can get. The cut gets progressively deeper even as the shaving thins along the curve of the gouge. Take your pocket knife and do a bit of whittling to get the idea down. You enter at a steep angle to make the initial sever, then slide down and along to make the cut.

Turning does the sliding (shearing) part for you, which is why you can take more wood out with less effort with a gouge. If you left your knife at the steep entry angle and pushed it down your whittle stick you'd be scraping. Can make a nice surface if you have a good edge, but shouldn't be your method of choice to remove a lot of wood. Too much can pile up in front of the scrape and stop the entire action or grab and rip the fiber.

What folks call shear scraping is really a cut with a blunt bevel. It combines scraping with a shear angle that cuts progressively deeper rather than trying to take the whole depth at once. Instead of pushing the knife edge perpendicular to the stick, try it at an angle. You're doing what the flat folks do when they belly a scraper or skew a plane when you do that.

[Jeff Borges]

Well, guys... Thanks for all this info. I guess by the fact that I am making curls and having fun. I am doing ok

I have quite a few practice sticks (2 x2 soft maple cut offs left over from building the super bench) kind of did "surveys" of how each tool cuts. Made a captured wheel stick..(blew up two before I got the idea...LOOK OUT!!!!!) :eek:

I made a vase shaped thing. finished nicely.... but no hollowing yet.. so its essentially a fat "spindle". I ordered a chuck ...what was it Mark Pruitt said about this all costing more and more!!! :p (I am a tool geek though.)
:rolleyes:

Thanks again for your help!