Electrical Help Needed PLEASE

[matt halloran]

Hi all...new to the creek...well, relatively new, I've been lurkin for a while!

Can anyone help with my jointer woes? I can't figure out why the thing won't start....changed the capacitor, mag switch, and it just won't start. If I push in the thermal overload manually, it runs fine. It's brand new and ran 5-6 times flawlessly. Grizzly G4090. Been in touch with them...

Hooked up a volt meter and it read it was only pulling 120....I don't get it though, I had an electrician put in a breaker on my house panel for 220. I run my Laguna 16 on the same line (220) and I'm not sure what to do? Is it the house line causing the volt to drop to 120? How can I fix it?

Thanks for any help...

[Jim Becker]

Check the wiring on the jointer motor and be sure it's set up for 240v. They most often ship setup for 120v.

[Ted Miller]

Matt, I am sure the Jointer is wired for 220 correct, are you using the same plug as your bandsaw, I know the Jointer is single phase and I am pretty sure you have single phase at your house, only new construction is three phase, was the jointer prewired from Griz and what is the amprage on your 220 from your panel, it should be a 2 pull 30 amp breaker. I hope the sparky who ran your 220 line, is it a dedicated 220 circuit with number 10 wires...

[Kermit Hodges]

Assuming you don't know a lot about electricty here. So forgive me if I am wrong. Depending on where you measure on a 220V circuit you will only measure 110v. Because you have two 110V lines coming in. Not a single 220V line.

And while it is frustrating it's better to do nothing and wait on the warranty repair. If you do try to repair it you might void you warranty.

[Kent Fitzgerald]

Matt, if it "runs fine" some of the time, that pretty well rules out incorrect voltage. When you measured 120 V, exactly how did you connect the voltmeter?

Is the thermal overload on the motor, separate from the magnetic switch? Are you saying that you have to hold down the reset button to get the motor to run? If so, it sure sounds like the overload itself is faulty.

[Bob Wingard]

The mag. starter on my Grizz. 1023 has what I assume is an adjustable overload .. it's a little plastic knob with graduated markings on it. When the saw wouldn't start upon hitting the "GO" button, I opened it up and slightly adjusted the knob .. ran fine .. put a little piece of tape on it to hold it in place .. been fine now for a couple of years.

[matt halloran]

Matt, if it "runs fine" some of the time, that pretty well rules out incorrect voltage. When you measured 120 V, exactly how did you connect the voltmeter?

Is the thermal overload on the motor, separate from the magnetic switch? Are you saying that you have to hold down the reset button to get the motor to run? If so, it sure sounds like the overload itself is faulty.

FIRST OFF...thanks for all the replies guys! Really a huge help...

okay, so I know the jointer's wired up right (at least that's what they tell me!) and the sparky who installed my line did use a two pole switch, dedicated circuit on the house (1 phase) panel.

The mag switch has the thermal overload on it, not the motor. I connected the voltmeter to the hots on the mag switch, read 124. Then I unplugged jointer from wall, connected voltmeter to wall plug (stuck the prongs in the top 2 slots like the parents always tell kids not to do) and read 121. Does that make any sense and am I going to kill myself trying to go any further?

THANKS!

[Charlie Plesums]

There should be three wires, three prongs on the plug. The big safety ground prong with a green wire connected to it, plus two others. If you measure from one prong to the safety ground, you should get 120 volts or so (or almost anything from 110 to 125). From the other prong to safety ground you should measure the same. But from one prong to the other (not the safety ground), you should measure twice as much (220 to 240 or so). If not, your electrician messed up.

The outlet should look different than a standard household outlet. There are a number of possible configurations, but none of them are the same as a regular lamp-type plug. If you have a standard outlet, the electrician put in 120 not 240 volts (or if it is a standard outlet and you measure 240 volts, get a different electrician immediately - he messed up in serious safety issues).

[Kent Fitzgerald]

The mag switch has the thermal overload on it, not the motor. I connected the voltmeter to the hots on the mag switch, read 124. Then I unplugged jointer from wall, connected voltmeter to wall plug (stuck the prongs in the top 2 slots like the parents always tell kids not to do) and read 121. Does that make any sense and am I going to kill myself trying to go any further?

OK, cue the Twilight Zone music. This is getting really weird.

It sounds like you're measuring the line voltage correctly. Is this the same receptacle that you've used to run the bandsaw? Or a different receptacle on the same circuit? I suppose it's possible that the receptacle was miswired (i.e., line-neutral or line-ground, rather than line-line).

What type of receptacle is it? Take a look at the chart below. The ones with the R suffix are receptacles. (Bear in mind that the chart shows the ground pin oriented up).

[matt halloran]

you guys are awesome....thanks so much for your help. I figured out what was wrong...I only had one hot going into the plug in the wall. 4 prongs...two hots and a ground, only one was giong to the hot in the wall...jointer runs great AND I'M STILL ALIVE!

Thanks again...

[Kent Fitzgerald]

OK, I'm glad to hear that the jointer is running and reality as we know it has been restored.

Still, it's a little strange to use a 4-prong plug and receptacle for this application. The 240V jointer only requires three connections: hot, hot, and ground. There should be no connection from the jointer to the circuit neutral.

[Joe Foggia]

Four prong plugs are typically used where the tool/appliance has a 120v circuit in addition to the 240v main motor. An example would be a dryer which uses 120v to run the clock drive for the cycles. This is because the 120v needs a path back to the box (i.e. the neutral wire). It is against code to use the ground wire for this purpose. I have used the ground to run a light over the tool but I am the only person ever in my electrical boxes and am willing to take the risk. Joe

[Robert Mahon]

4-prong plugs are now the code and supposedly safer than the older installations using the 3-prong styles.

The code does not require retro-fitting 3-prong plugs with 4-prong plugs.

[Rick Christopherson]

4-prong plugs are now the code and supposedly safer than the older installations using the 3-prong styles.

The code does not require retro-fitting 3-prong plugs with 4-prong plugs.This is not correct, nor is it stated in the NEC.

This is referring to an application where the appliance (aka clothes dryer) needs the 120 volt circuit to operate the timers, etc. and previously was permitted to use the ground wire as a conductor for these light load components.

This is not applicable to most other 240 volt applications, especially power tools, because the device does not use 120 volts. With the execption of clothes dryers and ranges, you will not likely find any common device that requires a 4-wire connection.

[Jim Becker]

Rick, there reportedly are a few jurisdictions that the local folks are requiring four wire being pulled for 240 volt circuits in a residential setting including a shop...they apparently don't get the "tool" thing relative to the "appliance" thing. "Local" being the operative here...

[Bruce Wrenn]

OK, I'm glad to hear that the jointer is running and reality as we know it has been restored.

Still, it's a little strange to use a 4-prong plug and receptacle for this application. The 240V jointer only requires three connections: hot, hot, and ground. There should be no connection from the jointer to the circuit neutral. It could be a 110/220 plug. These allow for either 110, or 220 from a single outlet. How the plug is wired determines voltage. HD sells these plugs, but they are twistlock. Looked at them yesterday.

[Charlie Plesums]

It could be a 110/220 plug. These allow for either 110, or 220 from a single outlet. How the plug is wired determines voltage. HD sells these plugs, but they are twistlock. Looked at them yesterday.
Independent of manufacturer's part numbers, the NEMA (National Electrical Manufacturers Association???) has "standard" codes for plugs and receptiles. If they are locking, the first letter is L. Then a number for the type. Then a dash and the current rating in amps. Therefore the plugs you saw at Home Depot are L14-20P and the corresponding outlet is L14-20R. (or maybe substitute 30 for 20). The 14 series is for 120 and 240 volts through the same plug/outlet. The 240 volt only series is L6-20R and L6-20P.

My Home Depot carried both, but were so poorly organized that I needed the NEMA code to find the parts I needed. If the L6 series doesn't meet code in your area, they probably don't carry them.