left tilt vs. right tilt...

[chris fox]

I am a fairly new ww'er and own a Jet contractors saw. Works nice, but last night found out why I prefer a left tilt TS while I was cutting 45 deg miters for a puzzle box for my 18 mon son.
After cutting the first miter and rotating around to do the other end I realized the dangerous issue of pushing the piece along the fence with the mitre edge riding under the fence. I added a secondary piece of plywood but the realized the embossed 'JET' logo not helping my ability to safely cut a piece of wood.:( The idea of using my basic miter guage and clamp seemed like the solution but did a couple of practice passes(which I always do with the blade down) still seemed unsafe.
The next best soluton is running over to work and cut in on the workshop Powermatic TS. This being a left tilt offered the best and safest pass.
So my question is, is this a major reason for left tilt saws? What are the pros/cons for left tilt vs righ tilt?

Thanks again for this great forum with tons of info. yet to be learned...
chris

[Mark Rios]

Chris, there has been much debate, sometimes heated regarding this issue ever since the other handed saw was made (I don't know which came first). Since you are new here, let me sum up for you the basic conclusion that is undeniable:

Right tilt saws are EVIL and right tilt saw owners are EVIL too. :D :D :D :D :D

JUST KIDDING!

It is a debate that is and will continue to be discussed. I recently purchased a used Unisaw which happened to be right tilt. I found that I didn't like using the right tilt when I had to rip 45's and I wasn't comfortable with it after using a left tilt (my old saw) for so long. So, I"m going to sell it and get a left tilt.

Some say that the left tilt offers a certain measure of extra safety by not trapping the material under the blade and some say it's a matter of getting used to cutting a little differently. Some also say to put the fence on the other side of the saw but you can't do that for some larger pieces.

However, some right tilt owners/users love the right tilt and work best with it. So, the REAL conclusion is, use/buy what you are comfortable using. If you find a deal like say.....$500 for a brand new PM66 but it's a right tilt, then you have to decide if you can get used to the right tilt. If not, pass up the deal don't buy until you find a left tilt. It's really just up to you, there is no real "best", just what you find most comfortable. THAT"S what is most safe.

[Hoa Dinh]

...After cutting the first miter and rotating around to do the other end I realized the dangerous issue of pushing the piece along the fence with the mitre edge riding under the fence.
Note that you'd have the same "dangerous issue" with a left-tilt saw if the two bevel edges were in parallel (cross section is a parallelogram).

[Kent Fitzgerald]

Note that you'd have the same "dangerous issue" with a left-tilt saw if the two bevel edges were in parallel (cross section is a parallelogram).
Yeah, but how often is that going to happen...



50% of the time? :D :D :D

To me, the left-tilt / right tilt debate is like the argument over whether it's better to drive on the right or left side of the road. One is safer for right turns, the other for left turns. Hmmm... which do you do more often?

[Mike Cutler]

Chris.
I have both. A right tilt Jet, and a left tilt General. To me it doesn't make a difference either way. The fence on the Jet goes to the left of the blade( Backwards,I know), and the fence on the General goes to the right of the blade.

[chris fox]

thanks for the replies.
I have cut a few cuts with the fence on the left of the blade. I dont have extensions so I am limited on board width.
Not sure if I follow the danger of the second miter if the 1st miter cut is up on the fence vs. on the table where it could get wedged under the fence? Yes, the edge is reduced to a very thin material vs. .75",etc.
Since I use a left tilt at work and prefer this, this will probably be my next choice.
thanks again...

[Rennie Heuer]

Right tilt saws are EVIL and right tilt saw owners are EVIL too. :D :D :D :D :D

Mark, I don't usually think of myself as evil. :confused:

I own a right tilt, primarily because of 2 reasons.
1. When I purchased the saw (a Jet 3HP cabinet) I really did not understand the difference, and
2. I was fortunate enough (gloat coming) to pick it up at an auction for half the retail price - it was only a few months old.

After reading so many "opinions" on right tilts and how unsafe they were I was beginning to feel very much in an unwelcome minority. Then I noticed that Norm's Unisaw is right tilt. So, I figured that even though many do not consider Norm to be a "fine woodworker" that if he could turn out some very nice work, and show 10 fingers every week, that I could probably squeak by. (His other unsafe habits notwithstanding):eek:

I imagine it comes down to a matter of preference, or, as in my case, economics.:)

[Bob Reeve]

I have a right tilt and love it. I have owned it for 3 years and have not once needed to make a bevel rip that was wider than I could achieve by putting the fence to the left. I have used both left & right. They are both fine. If you are already used to one style get that. I bought mine because of the deal I got. I have never regretted the decision.

The Evil Empire lives on :)
Bob

[Mark Rios]

Mark, I don't usually think of myself as evil. :confused:




Rennie, you do realize that it was a satirical joke, right?

I tried to emphasize that by the 5 "Big Grins".


:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[Rennie Heuer]

Rennie, you do realize that it was a satirical joke, right?

I tried to emphasize that by the 5 "Big Grins".

Yes, of course. ;)
Perhaps I should have used a few more smilies myself :D to put the 'right tilt' on my remarks! :eek:

[Mark Rios]

Yes, of course. ;)
Perhaps I should have used a few more smilies myself :D to put the 'right tilt' on my remarks! :eek:


Okey Dokey, that's good. I didn't want you to think that it was just some kind of off-handed remark. :D :D :D

(Your "right-tilt" was more clever. I couldn't think of anything better than that. I"ve got to hand it to you. :D :D :D )

[David Duke]

I had used a left tilt for over 25yrs, I was able to get a right tilt Uni 5 yrs ago and to be honest with you I still havent gotten use to it. I will say however that the right tilt does have its benifits such as being able to use my SmartMiter with the blade tilted. I currently have two TS the Uni and my old left tilt Craftsman, I hope to someday be able to retire the CM with the purchase of a left tilt Uni, that way I will have all options open.

[Bobby Nicks]

I used a left tilt Craftsman for a lot of years, then about 8 years ago I puchased a right tilt Uni. After taking a few weeks to get used to it I liked it. I'll never go back to left tilt. I don't believe that there is any danger cutting 45's on a right tilt saw if everything is setup right. Blade aligned correctly, fence correct, etc. And I love the fact that I can change blades, even put on a dado blade and the scale for the fence still reads correctly.

Bob

[glenn bradley]

"Perhaps I should have used a few more smilies myself :D to put the 'right tilt' on my remarks! :eek:"

OK . . . that one cracked me up!

[Nancy Laird]

Chris, see this thread: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=44266&highlight=left+tilt

Very interesting discussing of right vs. left tilt saws.

[Paul Simmel]

>>> After cutting the first miter and rotating around to do the other end I realized the dangerous issue of pushing the piece along the fence with the mitre edge riding under the fence.

>>> Not sure if I follow the danger of the second miter if the 1st miter cut is up on the fence vs. on the table where it could get wedged under the fence? Yes, the edge is reduced to a very thin material vs. .75",etc..

Chris,

If you have a right tilt and cutting your 45 degree bevel with the fence on the right, your bevel is under the blade so obviously when you ‘flip’ it over, the sharp edge <will> slid under the fence. What they’re saying above it to put the fence to the <left> of the blade, and run your piece through that way. The sharp edge from the bevel will then be on top of the blade, and the fence.

Am I missing something?

[Jim Becker]

Paul, the considerations about moving the fence for the bevel cut to the other side of the blade on a right-tilt saw are:

The fence will need to be re-adjusted as it's likely set for a slight toe-out behind the blade under normal operating conditions
The operator will be working from an unfamiliar position and with a need to exert pressure toward the fence in the opposite direction from normal
There is limited capacity to the left of the blade on most saws, so beveling panels will not be accommodated over the capacity of a specific sawThese are not "problems" but they are important to consider if the type of work one does requires a substantial amount of bevel ripping/cutting.

[Paul Simmel]

Jim, I agree, and thanks for pointing this out.

What I think concerns me most, was missed from the OP, however. Chris is ripping bevels from the right and flipping them over to run the opposite end. The bevel will not only extend below the blade during the first rip, (potential danger in itself and an argument for a LT saw) after he flips it over to do the other side, the bevel will again be under the blade only this time the newly sharpened edge (now riding against the fence) will undoubtedly get caught under the fence (as he mentioned concern over) …. A worst case which makes me cringe just thinking about it.

[Jim Becker]

Excellent points, Paul. The "point" of the bevel cut that runs along the fence should never be at table height since all fences have some form of gap between them and the table...a real recipe for a nasty kick-back when the material binds part-way and twists. This is a real issue for running panels on a right-tilt saw. One can equip the fence with a special support that rides under the material if what you're cutting is very thin and flexible, but for general sheet stock that doesn't bend back flat, it would throw off the angle. I was always very comfortable cutting beveled panels with the LT cabinet saw I had before I bought my slider...the width was always there and the good side of the panel was always "up".

[Eddie Darby]

I cut my miters this way:

http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=3178

No tilt required.

[Jim Becker]

I cut my miters this way:

http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=3178

No tilt required.

Most of the concern is with beveled edges on panels and long rips. The sled doesn't help with that situation, but I do agree, it's the best way to do precision miter cuts!

[Don Bullock]

There is an article on left tilt vs. right tilt in the latest Fine Woodworking magazine (May/June 2007, page 30). It may have some useful information for you.

[thomas prevost]

Having both right and left tilt saws, I believe all right handers should have right tilt saws with the fence rails extending on the left and ALL cutting done from the left side of the blade. As most use their right hand to feed stock whether rip or cross cut. One would stand to the left of the blade rather than directly in front of it, Thus any flybacks from cutoffs will be on the opposite side of the blade going by the user vs a 'direct hit'. It allows for the less dextress left hand to assist with it being on the out side. It prevents reaching accross the blade with the left hand, Often done when not thinking. It puts the stock for a bevel rip on the proper side.

Just the opposite for left handers.

Changing to this mode is initially uncomforatable as we have been trained via convention and have used the right side for years.

Comments???

[Tim Martin]

The "point" of the bevel cut that runs along the fence should never be at table height since all fences have some form of gap between them and the table...a real recipe for a nasty kick-back when the material binds part-way and twists. This is a real issue for running panels on a right-tilt saw. One can equip the fence with a special support that rides under the material if what you're cutting is very thin and flexible, but for general sheet stock that doesn't bend back flat, it would throw off the angle. I was always very comfortable cutting beveled panels with the LT cabinet saw I had before I bought my slider...the width was always there and the good side of the panel was always "up".

If you just slip a piece of MDF ply onto the table first so it brings the table surface up to a flat section of the fence, then there is no gap left for the point of the mitre to slip under and it will ride it just like the left tilt would.

All you do is set your fence, push the sheet into the cut and stop when the ply covers the ripping surface of the table. Switch the saw off and tape the ply to the table. Obviously you can adjust the fence away from the blade, but if you need to move the fence in you will have to remove the ply and repeat the cut.

[Dave MacArthur]

I concur with Thomas up above;) A right-tilt blade set up with extension rails on the left side of the saw (instead of the usual right side), and fence set on the left side, is the exact same functionally as a "normal set up left-tilt saw". However... there is an enormous paradigm that drives most saw equipment to be built with the assumption the extension table will be on the right side, starting with measuring tapes counting from 0 and up to the right, and rails having the same measuring applied... if you hook them up reversed, the dang numbers are upside down.

I recently saw a tablesaw with a 30" extension or so with a router-table built in, attached to the left side of the saw, and I thought, "That's brilliant! Why didn't I ever think of that?" Just not "normal think" I guess.

[David DeCristoforo]

Well there's a lot of good points here but for me, the "issue" is not so much which way the blade tilts but which way it tilts in relation to the fence. As a "general rule", (whichever way the blade is tilted) it's safer to have the blade tilted away from the fence so as not to "trap" either piece between the blade and the fence. In situations where a piece is "trapped" between the tilted blade and the fence, a dangerous kickback potential is created. Beyond that, it would seem to be more a matter of personal preference.

[Jim Becker]

David, I agree with you with the caveat that situations where the fence is moved to the opposite side of normal to avoid pinching issues presents the operator with a degree of unfamiliarity...one must take care in that case. This is more often an aspect of the right-tilt saw rather than the left-tilt machine. (It also requires that the fence be aligned dead-on to the blade...and many folks do toe it out slightly in the "normal" cutting position) In other words, the human aspects of this setup need to be carefully considered.

Honestly, with a "standard" saw, more and more folks are going to be better served by a left-tilt machine if they process panels. For a slider...it's just the opposite. These setups provide the least instances where the blade will be tilting to the "uncomfortable" side.

[Chris Barton]

I have a right tilt (Robland x31) and a left tilt (old Craftsman). If I am remembering correctly, euro machines like the Robland have to be right tilt by law (to tilt away from the operator position in sliding table saws)... I made a push "thingy" (I know, technical terms) that works like the commercial "Gripper" and it keeps my finger far away from the blade so, the right tilt factor really doesn't come into play. For big panels I just use my Festool At55e...

[Greg Funk]

I have a right-tilt saw and have never had to cut a panel larger than my fence could handle on the left side of the blade.

A bigger concern for me with a left-tilt saw would be the inability to use the scale on the fence with dado blades. The thickness of blade would also affect the accuracy of the scale when using regular blades.

Personally, I cut a lot more dados than 45 degree angles so I prefer a right tilt saw. YMMV.

Greg

[Al Killian]

Wouldnt only one side of the tape be off by changing blades? This would be true for right tilt ones as well, correct?

[Greg Funk]

Wouldnt only one side of the tape be off by changing blades? This would be true for right tilt ones as well, correct?
True, but the majority of time the fence is on the right side of the blade which is the side I would like to be accurate. I very seldom move my fence to the left side of the blade.

Greg

[glenn bradley]

:D to put the 'right tilt' on my remarks! :eek:

Emitting a good-natured groan at that one :D.

I enjoy this topic because everyone seems to agree that it is just a matter of preference and there's always some funny ribbing involved.

Ford / Chevy. Tastes Great / Less Filling, etc.

P.s. Left-tilt (always), just my preference.