Using a push stick?

[Andrew Melamed]

What is the correct way to use a push stick? Everytime I try the cut always comes out crooked and feels like it is going to kick back at any give time. I have a craftsman plastic push stich. Is it possible that my blade or fence needs adjustment? How would I go about checking something like that?


I have this push stick, is it good or should I make on out of plywood?

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?cat=Power+Tool+Accessories&pid=00932190000&vertical=TOOL&subcat=Tool+Safety&BV_UseBVCookie=Yes

[Jason Tuinstra]

Andrew, I would rule out the problem being with the push stick. You should see the old thing I use :D I would check to make sure that your fence is parallel to the blade by checking it against the miter slot. It should be ever so slightly out of parallel away from the blade. If this is good, focus on your technique. I not only focus on pushing forward, but also making sure that I push into the fence at the same time. Make sense? Try this out. Be safe.

[Andrew Melamed]

How do you push forward and into the fence at the sametime? Do you use two hands or something? What is a miter slot?

[Jim Becker]

Don't use a push "stick"...use a push block. Shop-built or commercial...it doesn't matter. You then have several inches of the thing directly in contact with the top of workpiece which gives better control. Push "sticks", IMHO, are an accident waiting to happen. I make my push blocks out of scrap and have 3/4", 1/2" and 1/4" thick versions to allow for narrow rips.

[Andrew Melamed]

Whats the difference? Do you have pictures of the one you made?

[Jim Becker]

I don't have a picture of mine, but here's an example of something similar from a commercial source (Lee Valley (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=30067&cat=1,42207))

http://www.leevalley.com/images/item/Woodworking%5CPowerTool%5CA203J7550.jpg

[Andrew Melamed]

Mine is kind of like that if you click on the link. How do you use that?

[Jim Becker]

Just like the picture I posted above...

[Andrew Melamed]

Whenever I do that the workpiece wont stay flush with the fence.

[Randall Woolbright]

Check out the GRR-Ripper. Will solve the problem described. Description and pics available in WW mags or online. I have 2 of them.

[Jim Becker]

Andrew, my suggestion would be for you to practice with the saw blade off until you feel you can control your workpiece with the push block. The tab at the back moves the workpiece forward as you advance your hand and downward pressure you exert should allow you to easily keep the workpiece against the fence.

[Jason Tuinstra]

Don't use a push "stick"...use a push block.

Jim: I agree with you. "Push sticks" are worthless and dangerous. I was using his words in light of the link that he sent that is similar to the one I use and that you linked to.

Andrew: You press down on the piece of wood and gently apply pressure forward and to the side. It's a single motion. Beyond that, I don't know how to describe the process. As I'm typing, I'm looking like a fool as I "air-saw" trying to put it into words :p

[Brad Kimbrell]

Andrew,

I use to use the same stick that you are using...basically a very skinny block.

The one safety issue that I have with these types is that your hand is trapped inside the block - sort of unsafe - like burying your boot all the way in the stirrup and then getting thrown off of the horse! If something happens and you need to let go, you can't as easliy as you could a solid handle.

The best block that I have found is a shop-made block about 2" thick x 3" wide x 12" long with a piece of 1/4" baltic birch or hardboard glued / screwed onto the back that sticks down about 1/4" to catch the board being pushed. You can even spray-glue some sandpaper to the bottom to improve the grip if you want to.

Put a handle on the top for pushing and you're off and running. I like to make a solid handle that is angled forward just a bit to assist in pushing down and forward.

The block that you have is a little too thin and tall which may be causing you to rock from side to side and push away from the fence a bit.

You might try a feather board to push the stock in toward the fence as well. Just be sure and locate it properly so it does not interfere with the stock as it reaches the blade. The end of the feather board should be located about 1/2" or more behind the blade (toward you away from the blade).

Good luck and stay safe! Don't ever do anything with a tool that you don't feel comfortable with.

[Jim Becker]

Jason...I was kinda taken aback that the LV pages refer to the thing as a push stick! Here I am trying to post a picture of a push block, at least in the context of my wild mind...and they mess me all up. Sheesh!

[Brad Kimbrell]

Here is a home-made block with a store-bought handle (from Rockler).

Of course you could make your own handle as well - just be sure that the grain is running up and down the handle - not from front to back or it could break off and there you'd be with your hand back in the saw!

Hope this helps clarify my earlier post.

By the way - I agree with the previous post about "The Gripper". I don't have one yet, but I plan to look into them.

http://images.rockler.com/rockler/images/30876-01-80.jpg (http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=16400&SearchHandle=DADBDBDBDADADDDGDCDJDEDDGBDDGCGGCNDAD DGGDHCNDEDHGDGCCNDIDFDIGECNGDGDDCGBGDGDGGDCDIDFDAD HDADADADBDADADADBDBHAHFHDGICAGCGMGPGDGLHDDADADADED ADADADADADADADBDFDADADADBDADADADADADADADADADADADAD BDADADADBDBHAHFHDGICAGCGMGPGDGLHDDADADADBDB&filter=push%20blocks)

[David Klug]

[QUOTE=Andrew Melamed]What is the correct way to use a push stick? Everytime I try the cut always comes out crooked and feels like it is going to kick back at any give time. I have a craftsman plastic push stich. Is it possible that my blade or fence needs adjustment? How would I go about checking something like that?


I have this push stick, is it good or should I make on out of plywood?

Andrew the first thing I would check is to make sure that the blade is parallel to the miter guage track. There are variouse ways to do this but what I generally do is mark a tooth on my blade, raise the blade as high as I can get it then I put my combination square in the track rotate the blade until the marked tooth is all the way to the rear. I move the blade on the sq. until it just touches the marked tooth, then rotate the blade forward till the tooth is about to disappear and slice the sq. in the slot up to the tooth. If it touches in front the same as the back then your blade is sq. and where it should be. If there is a gap then you have to loosen the arbor and adjust it so that every thing is sq. From there you can adjust the fence either sq. with the miter track or you can have it flare out a few thousands of and in.

DK

[Alfred Clem]

I am in my 80th year, still have all 10 fingers, and find myself learning something new all the time when it comes to woodworking. One of the first things I ever was taught in the shop was: keep your fingers away from the saw blade. Fear was instilled at an early age. Maybe a better word would be "respect" -- respect for the danger inherent in working around power machinery.

Now I have a Grrr-ripper. It gives me control I never had using push sticks -- downward control, lateral control, forward control. And this helps prevent kickbacks. You can buy a very informative and helpful instructional CD that helps you learn how to use this wonderful tool, helps you overcome fear, helps you do work safely while at the same time gaining control over the workpiece as you may have never known before.

I do not work for Grrr-ripper, have no interest in the company, and speak only from my personal experience. Buy one.

[Rick Christopherson]

One of the common mistakes by learning woodworkers is to use a push stick more often than they should. This reduces the amount of control the operator applies to the workpiece. I don't want to state any actual numbers, because that is for the operator to decide, but if your hand can comfortably rest between the blade and the fence, then it makes no difference whether it is elevated via a push shoe or laying flat: you are still the same distance from the blade. The difference is that you have more control over the workpiece, and this will reduce the chance for an accident.

I won't state the minimum width I will rip without a push shoe because it is narrower than I would expect most woodworkers to be comfortable with. However, a push stick/shoe should not be used for something as wide as, say, 12 inches, for example. I would like to say that even 6 or more inches is too wide for a push stick, but I am afraid some people wouldn't be comfortable with that answer.

[Scott Donley]

How do you push forward and into the fence at the sametime? Do you use two hands or something? What is a miter slot?Going out on a limb here, but, if you do not know what a miter slot is on your TS is , sounds like you need to turn it off and get some instruction. Using a tool that can cut your hand off in a split second means you need to know all the parts and what they are for.

[Jim W. White]

This is my favorite push stick. VERY effective. I buy it for friends that are woodworkers all the time.

http://woodworker.com/cgi-bin/FULLPRES.exe?PARTNUM=922-377

[Rob Bodenschatz]

Going out on a limb here, but, if you do not know what a miter slot is on your TS is , sounds like you need to turn it off and get some instruction. Using a tool that can cut your hand off in a split second means you need to know all the parts and what they are for.

I was thinking the same thing. Not to be harsh, but you should not be using a table saw until you get some instruction.

[Scott Vigder]

I too am leary of push sticks. I came across this gizmo at Hartville Tool that I have absolutely fell in love with. It's called the Gripper, and it allows you to place even pressure downward and laterally towards the fence during the cut.

51077

[John Lohmann]

I want to add a Gripper & a MJ Splitter. What is the best place to buy one , or get online ? Does any one have online promo codes? I think this is the best cheap solution.
Thanks, John

[Mike Lawler]

Not to be rude here, but it seems like you would do well to either take a WW class at a local continuing ed, or trade school, or at least consider one of the following books:

The Tablesaw book by Kelly Mehler
Understanding Woodworking machines - mark Duginske

both are easily available from all booksellers and are probably also available at your library.

[Jake Helmboldt]

After reading up on the saw itself as has been advised (to make sure the saw is set up to cut properly) is to make or buy a featherboard and a splitter.

Those will go a long way in improving the cut and keeping the stock to the fence. But if the fence is not square to the blade, and the blade not square to the table, then it is all moot.

Jake

[glenn bradley]

I think from the description of the problem that maybe it's the position of the stick/block. I try to stay at the center of the board that rides the fence. that is centered between the fence and the blade if not a little toward the blade. If you're doing this and your 'keeper' piece still tries to move off the fence, I'd stop and do a full setup check on your saw alignment. If things aren't lined up, you'll have problems a various kinds on various cuts.

[Brian Clevenger]

Andrew,

I use the same "block" that your posted for about 70% of the cuts that I use a push block for. I have never had a problem with the material working away from the fence, and I haven't had a kickback when using that particular "block". For narrow and short pieces, I like to use the Grrripper. I don't use the Grrripper for long stock at all though.

As was suggested above, make sure the blade does not have accessive runout, that the fence is parallel to the blade, and that you are applying pressure toward the fence BEFORE THE BLADE ONLY (for this, use a featherboard).

[Jim Becker]

Promised picture of my push block....

51136

[Al Willits]

Andrew, I'm new at this also and even with a basic woodworking class, I'm finding the learning curve on my table saw is just starting, in less than a few months I've had two kickbacks already (kickback is basically where the saw blade grabs the wood and sends it back at ya...very fast)

I'm still learning on who to use the saw, be careful, when things happen, they happen dam fast.
Get some help on using it, even a one night class if you can find one.


Also, you guys out there that have the Gripper, it is fairly user friendly?
I was looking at it at Woodcrafts and it looks like a nice unit, but a bit involved, just wondering if its easy enough to use that a person will actually use it?

Al

[Scott Vigder]

Also, you guys out there that have the Gripper, it is fairly user friendly?
I was looking at it at Woodcrafts and it looks like a nice unit, but a bit involved, just wondering if its easy enough to use that a person will actually use it?
Al

I found the Gripper to be very user riendly. Follow the instructions carefully and you'll have it assembled in less than thirty minutes. Also, the DVD is packed with helpful info.

Good luck!

[Al Willits]

Thanks Scott, I'll add it to my list.

Al

[John Gornall]

Seems like some talk about feather boards would fit in here.

[Jerry Jaksha]

The best featherboard is one that you use. If a featherboard is difficult to set up, or takes much time to set up, you won't use it unless your fear(or common sense) overcomes your want to get the cut done quickly. What you want is a featherboard that you can set up with your left hand while you hold the board to be cut in your right hand.

[Al Willits]

Just bought the magnetic feather board that Woodcraft sells, seems like a nice unit, used it maybe 8-10 times so far, just put it up against the wood, turn two knobs and your good to go.
Only drawback is it only works on metal tables.

Just wondering if those who bought the Gripper use it for most of your TS cutting or just when your dealing with small pieces?

Al

[Aaron Beaver]

Just wondering if those who bought the Gripper use it for most of your TS cutting or just when your dealing with small pieces?

Al

I use my all the time, medium or small pieces. I also use it on my router table, it holds small pieces securly when routing with or without a fence, and keeps my fingers away from the router bit. You can even use it on a joiner to push the wood through. The Grr-Ripper has many uses besides the table saw, its a very versitale product. I bought two, one with all the extras and then just a plain one.

P.S. I have no affiliation with them, just enjoy the product.

[Jerry Jaksha]

Pushers are fine for short boards, but the last time I watched the Gripper demo at a show it took 2 minutes and two people to rip a 1"x1" 6 foot long stick in half.
The guy demonstrating the Grip-Tite (magnetic featherboard) ripped the same piece into 4 - 1/8"x 1" strips in 30 seconds.

[Al Willits]

Interesting point Jerry, I was wondering if using the Gripper would take more time, not so much as I'm in a hurry, but if it took a bit longer to use for each cut, I'm thinking I might just not use it.

What did the guy with the grip tite use for pushing the wood though the saw though?
tia

Al

[Glen Blanchard]

Pushers are fine for short boards, but the last time I watched the Gripper demo at a show it took 2 minutes and two people to rip a 1"x1" 6 foot long stick in half.

I use my Gripper almost exclusively for narrow cuts. I have never timed how long it takes to get the Gripper set up, but I would venture to say it is not much more than 10 seconds. For cuts such as these, I get a much greater sense of control than when a traditional push block is used.

[Jerry Jaksha]

When you use a Grip-Tite rollerguide system (holding down off the fence) the pusher is the next board, or any board the same thickness. The end of the push board can be left in the blade and will not kick back even when the blade is spinning. A wide push board keeps the cut board next to the fence, a narrow push board can go between blade and fence.
If you use the sandpaper rollers, the wood gets spring loaded to the fence without closing the kerf

When you use the Grip-tite as a featherboard on the saw deck, you can use a push shoe to finish the cut.

[Jerry Jaksha]

I agree- push sticks only hold down the end of the wood. Throw them out and make a push shoe with a high handle and a heel to make sure the wood cannot kick back. You can buy the red commercial model above or use it as a good design for one you cut out of plywood.
I make mine with a heel block glued to the bottom- ten times more secure hold than a dusty rubber strip.