Joint strong enough??

[Jerry Olexa]

Building a blanket chest. This first one will be raised panel, R/S walnut. My concern is the upper front and side vertical joints. There will be no Through dovetails due to the R/Style construction. The bottom will be reinforced with the bottom bed etc but the top is covered only by a hinged top so there will be no "stiffening" action. I plan to do a combination of biscuits and pocket holes and possibly a spline on these verticals where the front meets the sides. Is this strong enough as it will get some wear as a toybox from my little 1 yr old grandaughter?? Do you have any other ideas?? I still have to make it furniture level as my daughter plan to use later in her Family room.. Thanks...

[Quinn McCarthy]

Jerry

Traditional frame and panel construction usually involves some sort of tougue and groove construction for the rails and styles. In it's simplest form you will have a 3/8" tougue and groove construction were the frame parts meet with the panel residing in the groove that goes in all 4 pieces. This would give you a very solid joint in the corner that would not need any reinforcement at all. This type of construction can be done with a table saw or router or with raised frame and panel bits for a router table or shaper. They all look different but have he same principle construction. I think pocket screws would work but I would stay away from biscuits. If you do the T&G construction you will end up with a decorative joint where the rail and style meet along the tops of the sides. I think this adds a bit of class to the project.

I hope that helps.

Quinn

[Lars Thomas]

Jerry, If I am picturing this correctly, you are joining the stile from the front/back to the stiles on the two side panels. The glue joint alone will be plenty strong. If you are still concerned about long term durability, you could reenforce the joint with a 3/4" glue strip at each corner. This glue strip could also double as a support for some type of removable tray.

[Mack Cameron]

Building a blanket chest. This first one will be raised panel, [quote]R/S walnut.
Hi Jerry; I'm not sure what you mean!
R/Style construction.Rail & Stiles?
I plan to do a combination of biscuits and pocket holes and possibly a spline on these verticals where the front meets the sides.I'm thinking you mean where the stiles of the front meet the stiles of the sides. You could consider dowels. I've just completed a carcase for a blanket box that I think is what you are speaking of. I used a drawer lock bit to join both stiles. (Don't confuse with a lock mitre bit.)

Is this strong enough as it will get some wear as a toybox from my little 1 yr old grandaughter?? Do you have any other ideas?? I still have to make it furniture level as my daughter plan to use later in her Family room.. Thanks
The drawer lock bit runs the full length of the stiles on all 4 corners and once glued is plenty strong.

[Jerry Olexa]

[quote=Jerry Olexa]Building a blanket chest. This first one will be raised panel,
Hi Jerry; I'm not sure what you mean! Rail & Stiles?I'm thinking you mean where the stiles of the front meet the stiles of the sides. You could consider dowels. I've just completed a carcase for a blanket box that I think is what you are speaking of. I used a drawer lock bit to join both stiles. (Don't confuse with a lock mitre bit.)

The drawer lock bit runs the full length of the stiles on all 4 corners and once glued is plenty strong.

Yes Mark, it'll be rail and stile and raised panel inserts but that leaves me with a fairly vulnerable corner joint where the side panel stile joins to the front panel stile. Never considered dowels or a drawer lock bit (which I have but have never used) but will look over. Was thinking of a spline or a improvised long tenon the length of the stile or of course, pocket holes or even possibly biscuits. Its probably overkill but I want it to last..Thanks for the ideas, Mark

[Jerry Olexa]

Jerry, If I am picturing this correctly, you are joining the stile from the front/back to the stiles on the two side panels. The glue joint alone will be plenty strong. If you are still concerned about long term durability, you could reenforce the joint with a 3/4" glue strip at each corner. This glue strip could also double as a support for some type of removable tray.

Thanks Lars Thats also good insurance....Good thought.

[David Rose]

Jerry,

I'm working on a blanket chest right now of cherry. I simply did rabbets on the corners. They seem plenty strong.

Where I did notice a weakness, at least in my design, is in the long front and rear panel spans. I am using two old style long leaf "gate type" hinges placed about 1/4" of the length of the top from each end. The top is supported at one end when raised. If you lower the top briskly onto the stop, there is considerable flex in the back panel unit. It will sit there and bouce a few times. The flex is all in the back panel where the hinge on that side is located.

The bottoms of the front/back/ends are glued to a pretty massive base. But the tops have only corner support.

Just something to think about. I doubt it will cause a problem in a blanket chest, but it might in a toy box.

David

[Terry Bigelow]

There will be no Through dovetails due to the R/Style construction.
This is an honest question. I am actually building the very same thing right now(blanket chest) and I am also using frame and panel construction. Why are through dovetails not an option? Is it simply looks, or is it a matter of seasonal movement on long grain/long grain joint? I just finished the 4 sides and was about to DT them together but now I'm wondering if I shouldn't.

[Guy Germaine]

I built this one several years ago and didn't use any joinery. It's a long grain to long grain glue-up, so it should be plenty strong. This one has held up quite well.
http://www.fototime.com/248A8C394CC561B/standard.jpg

[Jerry Olexa]

This is an honest question. I am actually building the very same thing right now(blanket chest) and I am also using frame and panel construction. Why are through dovetails not an option? Is it simply looks, or is it a matter of seasonal movement on long grain/long grain joint? I just finished the 4 sides and was about to DT them together but now I'm wondering if I shouldn't.

Terry, just MHO but I don't think dovetails would look right on a vertical stile 2 1/4 inch wide. It would detract IMHO from the beauty/nature of rail/stile construction. Just my thought. I will do dovetails on the next chest I'll build which will be solid wood

[Jerry Olexa]

Jerry,

I'm working on a blanket chest right now of cherry. I simply did rabbets on the corners. They seem plenty strong.

Where I did notice a weakness, at least in my design, is in the long front and rear panel spans. I am using two old style long leaf "gate type" hinges placed about 1/4" of the length of the top from each end. The top is supported at one end when raised. If you lower the top briskly onto the stop, there is considerable flex in the back panel unit. It will sit there and bouce a few times. The flex is all in the back panel where the hinge on that side is located.

The bottoms of the front/back/ends are glued to a pretty massive base. But the tops have only corner support.

Just something to think about. I doubt it will cause a problem in a blanket chest, but it might in a toy box.

David

David, is yours raised panel and rail & stile? Mine is and will have a 48" span. Good point. OK at bottom but top could "move" in that its really a 48 " long 2 1/4" piece of walnut 3/4 " thick and yes, my hinges will be anchored there also. I will have 2 intermediate supports (rails) for the 3 front panels. Suppose that rail could be reinforced but would take away from the look. What do you think?

[Terry Bigelow]

Thanks Jerry, I've had time to "marinate" on it and I agree. Not only will it look better sans DTs, but it will save me a ton of time (I cut mine by hand)to work on the other X-mas gifts on my list. Thanks for the input!

[David Rose]

Jerry,

Scroll toward the bottom of this thread:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=45116&page=2

The lid will be changed due to a cutting error. :o

It sounds basically much like yours. The plans called for 7/8". I didn't think through why. I think that is part of my flexing problem.

I'm probably going to leave mine alone at this point. Hinges really close to the lid prop would also likely cure it. I know what would do it... A horizontal rim around the case top maybe 1 to 1 1/2" wide. Nicely done, it would be attractive too. But it would be best to have it incorporated into the original plan for reasons of dimensional ratios and such.

David


David, is yours raised panel and rail & stile? Mine is and will have a 48" span. Good point. OK at bottom but top could "move" in that its really a 48 " long 2 1/4" piece of walnut 3/4 " thick and yes, my hinges will be anchored there also. I will have 2 intermediate supports (rails) for the 3 front panels. Suppose that rail could be reinforced but would take away from the look. What do you think?

[Jerry Olexa]

Jerry,

Scroll toward the bottom of this thread:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=45116&page=2

The lid will be changed due to a cutting error. :o

It sounds basically much like yours. The plans called for 7/8". I didn't think through why. I think that is part of my flexing problem.

I'm probably going to leave mine alone at this point. Hinges really close to the lid prop would also likely cure it. I know what would do it... A horizontal rim around the case top maybe 1 to 1 1/2" wide. Nicely done, it would be attractive too. But it would be best to have it incorporated into the original plan for reasons of dimensional ratios and such.

David

David: I remember your post and pics... Mine is similiar but no arched panels and no plan. (AND not as nice as yours:) )I also have the 1 big r panel on each side. I'll watch for that issue as I progress. A little concerned as my milled walnut ended up a little over 3/4".Thanks for the alert and again, nice work..

[David Rose]

Thanks Jerry,

But I wouldn't judge any piece without seeing it close up. :eek:

OVER 3/4" sounds better.

David


David: I remember your post and pics... Mine is similiar but no arched panels and no plan. (AND not as nice as yours:) )I also have the 1 big r panel on each side. I'll watch for that issue as I progress. A little concerned as my milled walnut ended up a little over 3/4".Thanks for the alert and again, nice work..