Wood Fillers before finishing....

[Dennis Peacock]

OK.....this subject has been around a few times here and there. I am wanting to fill wood grain, Red Oak, with a wood filler of "some sort" to help the final finish look and feel more flat (grain filled finish). What is the concensus here on what type of woodfiller I should use. It needs to be able to be stained and easily sanded. I suppose that I fill the grain first and then stain and top coat?

Any help would be appreciated......from one who is still learning.

[Steve Jenkins]

Dennis, typically the wood filler won't really accept stain after it is dried but you can add color to it before you apply it.The order can vary depending on your stain and stuff. (Really techinical there.)
You can apply the filler to the bare wood and after it dries you can sand it back to remove all but what is in the pores then go ahead and stain.if I were going this route I would wash-coat (see below) first then fill with a stain added to the filler to get color into the pores.

You can also apply the filler stain combo to bare wood and it will both stain and fill. You don't want to sand it if you do that.

To stain first,if you use a dye stain you want to use the dye first then if you want to go over that with an oil stain for a different effect you can do that. If you just use an oil stain put it on first.

either way after applying the oil stain you need to seal it in with a wash coat of sealer. This is just your normal sealer thinned down. I like to thin it about 1 sealer to 3-4 thinner. this will prevent the paste wood filler from removing any stain. After the sealer dries you can apply the filler. The cool thing about doing things in this order is that you can make up your filler in any color you want, red, yellow black, whatever,and it will just color the pores.

It can be applied in a number of ways, rag,squegee,brush. I use a HD cheapo brush, that I have cut the bristles of to about 1/2-3/4". Brush in both directions with and across the grain. Leave some on the surface. After the filler flashes (starts to get dull) use some burlap or cheesecloth to remove the excess, rubbing in circles and predominately across the grain. Keep turning the cloth. If it starts to build up on the cloth it will start pulling the filler back out of the grain. Look at it from different angles to make sure you have gotten the filler in everything.
You don't want to do too big an area at once because that stuff gets really hard to remove as it dries.

After removing the excess with the cheesecloth I will lightly wipe with the grain with a soft clean cloth or paper towels to remove the slight haze left on the surface. Look at it again the next day from different angles to make sure everything is filled. It's not unusual to have to do more than one application.If it is an oil based filler let it dry for a couple days before topcoating it.

It isn't rocket science by anymens and a little practice is all it takes but on a hot day it's a lot of work. Steve

[Jim Becker]

Adding to Steve's excellent advise, you can take advantage of the paste wood filler for effect...since it's to be applied after you stain/dye your piece, you can use clear for no noticable change, a color similar to your particular species or a contrasting (usually darker, but sometimes not) filler to accentuate the pore structure. I've even seen white filler used over a dark surface for a very interesting effect. I've used both the clear on one occasion and used the mahogany filler on the base of my round teak table (the base was made from mahogany).

One other note and Steve also mentioned this...if you are going to use a colored filler and you don't want it to affect the color of the underlying wood, such as situations where it needs to contrast, be sure to seal the piece with a #1 cut of super blond de-waxed shellac (or your preferred sealer) before using the filler. The coloration in the dyed filler will bleed into the workpiece in some cases.

[Dennis Peacock]

OK.....I'm starting to see the "light".....

1. Apply stain (oil based).
2. Apply "wash coat" of Lacquer.
3. Apply wood filler tinted with the same oil stain used in step 1.
4. Apply 5 spray coats of clear gloss lacquer.

Does this seem the right order for someone who will be doing this on a CD Cabinet that I have spend almost 3 months making?

I guess I could leave it as an open pore finish, but I wanted this project to have that nice, smooth look and feel. Will an oil based wood filler stick to the "wash coat" of lacquer?

Thanks for the wonderful info that you have already provided and I am starting to understand the process. I guess I need to start looking around for a good quality woodfiller to order. (recommendations anyone on what filler to order?)

[Steve Jenkins]

Dennis,If you use a darker filler than the stain color it will give more definition to the grain structure. Black or nearly so on a dark stain looks pretty good.

I'd play with some different combos on some scrap before committing to your CD cabinet. It will lengthen the completion time but I'd hate for you to end up with something you didn't like.

The reason for using the "wash-coat" is to seal the wood without building up any finish. This will keep the edges of the pores sharper so the filler will stay in them. If you put on a regular coat of finish it kind of rounds off the sharp edges on the pores and the filler is more likely to pull out as you are applying it.

I've used Mohawk filler a lot and some Pratt & Lambert.

Steve

[Terre Hooks]

I have read where many people use Plaster of Paris. Quit laughing. Even read where it works.

I haven't tried it, but the basic instructions I read was to mix some up, a little thinner that you would for making them special projects in junior high school, slather it on, squeege it off, let it dry and sand it smooth.

Stain it and proceed like usual.

Like I said, I haven't tried it. But I will. I don't think Plaster of Paris costs that much, you could always try some on scrap, wouldn't take that long to try. That stuff dries pretty quick. All you would be out would be a piece of scrap and an hour or so.

[Jim Becker]

I have read where many people use Plaster of Paris. Quit laughing. Even read where it works.

No laughing required...the teak table that I repaired and refinished last year (circa late-1960s from Viet Nam) had cracks filled with plaster and then colored. The only reason I found out is that some of the filler had been damaged while the table top was in storage in the home my wife grew up in in Falls Church VA and during the repairs, the material became obvious.

[Brad Hammond]

OK.....this subject has been around a few times here and there. I am wanting to fill wood grain, Red Oak, with a wood filler of "some sort" to help the final finish look and feel more flat (grain filled finish). What is the concensus here on what type of woodfiller I should use. It needs to be able to be stained and easily sanded. I suppose that I fill the grain first and then stain and top coat?

Any help would be appreciated......from one who is still learning.

dennis.......i think this might be my first "advice" post here...hehe i usually soak up everyone elses excellent advice.
i've had excellent results from wet sanding the wood with a blo+mineral sirits+poly combo. the poly is optional of course, but i've only used this method with stain on one project. however, it was red oak and it turned out pretty good (being humble..).
as long as your trying scrap pieces try this.
mix your blo,ms and stain (oil based stain). you'll want it pretty thick and the blo helps that alot.
pour a little out on your test piece and wet sand with 400 or larger grit of wet dry sand paper. you'll get a pretty good slurry.
i usually sand until it starts to get a little tacky.
wipe off with a soft clean cloth... lint free of course.
let er dry for a day and apply your choice of top coat.
admittedly, this might be a difficult method to use to achieve the desired "darkness" of stain, but it's worked for me in the past.
i read an article in fine woodworking about this some months ago. excluding the stain, this is my finish method of choice for open pored woods.
hope i havent confused your or offered a bunch of crappy advice.
good luck................and always post pics!
brad

[Carl Eyman]

After years of very marginal pore filling I went to Jeff Jewitt. Using his good advice and excellent water based fillers and aniline dyes, I finished a dining room table that might rival Steinway Piano for a flat finish. With these water based materials you can get your dye and filler the exact same color (if that is what you want) I'd post my question on Jeff's website. His company is Homestead finishing. I'm hesitant to give the url, because I'm unsure of the rules. If you don't find it with a search, e-mail me. Carl

"The URL is permitted in this case : here it is:"
The Old Rebel
http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/