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RJ Schuff
02-25-2003, 7:37 PM
We have this mantle above the fireplace that is badly crowned on top. My wife would like me to flatten it so her ugly...errr beautiful vases will not fall off.

The only fasteners that I can find are a single large finishing nail at both ends, angled towards the wall. I assume that if I drive those nails through, I should be able to figure out how it is hanging up there.

Anyone have any ideas or suggestions. I really have no clue as to how this thing is attached.

Thanks

RJ

Lee Schierer
02-25-2003, 9:23 PM
And that is precisely what this is... I would suggest that you not try to drive the nail in. I suspect that the mantle may be hanging on pins embedded in the masonry and they fit in sockets on the back of the log. Driving the nail in may make the problem worse.

Is there any chance to get in touch with who ever built the house???

You might try sending the photo to a friend of mine KC Constable at kc@kcwoodworks.net He makes large mantles professionally and may have some ideas of how they get attached to the fireplace. Tell him I suggested that you contact him.

Todd Burch
02-25-2003, 9:28 PM
I'm familiar with two types of mantle mountings.

First, is simply a block of wood (2X4, 2x6, etc.) set into the mortar/stone/brick horizontally. Call it a "nailer".

The second is for two tenons to come out of the facade, one on each side, and go into mortises in, your case, the 1/2 log.

I suspect the first case, and as your presume, removing those nails should get you closer to the actual answer.

Todd.

Bob Boake
02-25-2003, 10:21 PM
No telling how some of these custom installations are engineered.
Can you flatten it where it is? Might save some mortar matching resulting from the R & R. If you need to remove I would also start by removing the finish nails on either end. Just my opinion....

Kevin Gerstenecker
02-25-2003, 10:26 PM
At the risk of damaging the Masonry work during removal, is there any chance you could use a Power Planer and get it back in shape that way? It appears to be crowned mostly in the center, and if there is sufficient clearance from the Stone Work, maybe you could remove enough material to get it back to a level surface. Just an idea for ya.................Good Luck!

Steve Schoene
02-26-2003, 3:42 PM
Since the original installer left the pith in the wood--(ensuring the warping you have seen) he was somewhat of an amateur with wood, and therefor no telling how it was installed.

I think there are some advantages in flattening it in place. In addition to the power planer, hand planes offer more control. A scrub plane would remove the bulk of the excess in about 15 minutes, and then it would just be a matter of smoothing it off.

Kirk (KC) Constable
02-26-2003, 5:18 PM
It would most certainly be easier to fix in place. I'll disagree a bit with Steve's comment about an 'amateur' doing it because of the pith being there. I've done about two mantels over the years...I'm the furniture guy. :) , but I've seen maybe fifty go out that I wouldn't put on a <i>garage wall</i>, let alone in the living room. People like rustic and natural, and pith is natural. We've sold mantels with probably a gallon of epoxy in them, and mantels that may have crossed the line from 'spalting' to just plain rotten. Different strokes for different folks...

KC

Steve Schoene
02-26-2003, 8:56 PM
Yeah, but there's a big difference in putting up something with funky looks, (no accounting for taste) and putting up something that the installer should know is going to make the whole thing unstable and likely to warp. The installer saved a bit of hunting around and some cash by using a log so small that he couldn't get the necessary size without including the center of the tree. (But one does have to account for the structural and functional integrity of the constuction.)

Ruby in NC
02-27-2003, 7:09 AM
Originally posted by RJ Schuff
The only fasteners that I can find are a single large finishing nail at both ends, angled towards the wall. I assume that if I drive those nails through, I should be able to figure out how it is hanging up there.

After studing your picture, a bit, I suspect that your mantle was actually attached from the inside of the fireplace surround. Probably with lag screws. The reason why I mention this is that I have a fireplace insert with a stone & morter finish like yours. Along side the fireplace box, there's another opening for a woodbox. If you crawl into the woodbox, you can stand up, as there's no 'top' to the box. The side wall next to the fireplace is covered with paneling only to the height of the insert. This design allows full access to the insert, flue, fan, etc. Any way, because of this I can see the framing used to enclose this 'fireplace wall'. Thus, can see how the mantle was attached.

Thus, I suspect your fireplace (if it's an insert) was built the same way. Before the insert was put in place, the mantle could have been attached simply by standing inside the fireplace.

That said, is there anyway you can get a peek at the construction from the backside? I know it's a long shot, but if you have a closet or cabinet on the wall that's directly behind your fireplace (assuming it's on an interior wall) you may be able to drill a peep hole. Or, if you have a recess on one side the fireplace (where a built in bookcase would reside, for example) maybe you could do the same there. Hoping repair of these peep holes would be easy with some wood filler, drywall compound, etc.

If the mantle is indeed attached with lag screws from the inside of the enclosure, to remove the mantle will probably require an opening, somewhere, large enough for you to get to those screws from the inside.

If that's the case, trying to resolve the problem with the mantle in place, as others have mentioned, would be the way that I'd tackle it, too.

In closing, FWIW, I plan to replace the simple shelf that serves as a mantle over my fireplace and woodbox. That's why I've spent time trying to figure out how it was all put together in the first place.

Hope these thoughts are helpful. Good luck with this. Fingers crossed that it doesn't turn into a major project.

Regards,
Ruby

RJ Schuff
02-27-2003, 8:03 AM
Thanks to everyone for their suggestions. It looks like I will try to flatten this puppy where it is. Some of the cultured stone overhangs the back of the mantle a bit and will make it tough to flatten it evenly, but it I still should be able to improve it. Sure was looking foreward to running it through my DJ-20.:(

Ruby! No such access to my firebox. It sits on an outside wall.

Thanks again

RJ

Bob Boake
02-27-2003, 10:13 AM
Might be a tool purchase opportunity. they make some small rabbet planes that can get in pretty tight. I would be more inclined to go at this with hand planes. Establish level lines on sides and front to establish how much you wish to take off prior to any wood removal. sometimes string will get tight under uneven surfaces to establish a straight line. You might have a small ridge left against the masonry, but that would not look bad or you could get in tight with some sandpaper and ease any edges for a natural look. good luck