Garage shop and condensation problems

[Alex Cam]

Hey All,

My shop is the third stall of my garage. It's not heated or insulated -- and that gets a little rough in the winter months. I'm thinking about insulating it and putting a heat out there, but I certainly don't want to run it al lthe time.

I've read that if I heat it up when I'm out there I'll get condensation on my tools (and thus rust) as the temperature goes up and down. Anyone have any experience with this scenario?

Also, what about letting rough-turned bowls or rough-cut blanks sit out in freezing temperatures? Any issues with that?

[Frank Fusco]

Heat is better than no heat. My shop is in a under-house walk-out basement one car garage and shares space with the water pressure tank, water softner and a maze of pipes. In warm weather condensation is awful, even makes puddles on the floor. I protect tools with Johnson's paste wax. Have to rub some on about two times a year. Works great.

[Cecil Arnold]

Alex,

I'm no expert, and around here the problem is high heat and humidity, but my understanding is that the real problem comes from rapid temp. change. The cast iron will hold temperatures for a much longer time than it takes air temps to change. This heat holding ability is one reason that "cast iron plate" is used as a heat exchanger in forced air heating systems.

In your situation, I think you might try good insulation and slow heating. Go out the night before and start to bring the temp up to 45-50* then bring it to the low 60s the next day. Once the heat is turned off, since the space is insulated, the heat loss should be slow enough to not effect your tools. Take that for what it's worth, since we see freezing temps around here about every 2-3 years, and then only overnight.

[Frank Kobilsek]

Alex
Its already cold here in Northern Illinois, either that or I am getting old. I work in an unheated, uninsulated attached 2 car garage. A Mr. Heat single burner heater on top of a gas grill bottle has been my 'comfort' the last couple winters. It is bearible, if I dress right, down to about 20 F if its not too windy.

This morning I ordered a Hot Dawg gas furance (45,000 BTU) and my plumber will install it Monday. Hopefully the garage will get insulated in January. I plan to set it a 40 - 45 and crank it up when its time to work. A farmer freind tells me it will run surprizingly little at the low temp and won't cost me more than an extra $10 per month. Honestly I don't plan to check the cost as I am really looking forward to working in true comfort.

This idea gained popularity in my household when the driver of the car that does get to park in the garage, realized her car would be warm in the morning when she leaves for school. Silver lining for everyone!

To your other question - freezing rough blanks won't hurt them at all.

Frank

[Mark Pruitt]

Alex, it sounds like you don't want to sholder the cost of constant heat but also have issues with major temp changes; perhaps you could mitigate this by turning the heat down instead of off when not in the shop. My .02
Mark

[Paul Engle]

you might consider running supply vent to and from the main house to the shop, that way you could start warming it up and control the cool down from the main house, no external heat in shop and once insulated you could cut down the supply/vent ( choke down the vent will reduce the force of the supply, still get small temp controll with out killing off your heating budget especally if you are finishing / drying an item. The Navy uses this system on board their ships , usually to cool off a really hot space , engine room, boiler room etc.

[Wally Wenzel]

Frank, you are going to love that "hot dawg"
Wally

[Doug Shepard]

I'm also in an uninsulated, unheated Michigan garage. Rust for me was a problem year round until I started doing a 3-step routine: Top-Coat, Talcum Powder, and HTC Tool covers. Now I just have to lightly touch each tool maybe twice a year for 5 mins with WD40 and steel wool to touch the CI up. I'm using one of these to get things to a workable temp during the winter
http://www.mrheater.com/productdetails.asp?catid=44 . As long as it's 10 degs or above outside, I can get the GaShap to around 50 with the heater after a while though the CI is still cold. You should do even better with insulation and a better heater.
I dont really notice any particular increase in rust as a result of using the heater, but think the covers and other stuff are largely responsible.

[Alex Cam]

That's great info -- sounds like the middle-of-the-road solution would be to insulate and get a portable heater. I like the Mr. Heater idea, and just keeping the area I'm working in at a comforatable level. When we built the house, I made provisions to run a gas line out to the garage, so maybe someday I can get a small furnace and keep it at ~40 when it gets chilly.

That being said, maybe I should get a lathe first!? :eek:

[Richard Madison]

Alex,
If technically feasible, insulate first, walls and ceiling. Ditto the garage door(s), if they are single layer metal doors. Cut and fit foam into panels of the doors. If garage is attached to the house, you just gained 10 degrees in winter.

If you have a 220V outlet conveniently located, consider cutting and framing out an elevated hole for small window unit with AC/Heat with thermostatic control. Don't know where you are, but the summer I spent in Saginaw in '64 it was pretty hot. Just need to keep the humidity in the "shop" low in the summer, and keep the temperature above the dew point in the winter.

[Richard Jones]

you might consider running supply vent to and from the main house to the shop, that way you could start warming it up and control the cool down from the main house, no external heat in shop and once insulated you could cut down the supply/vent ( choke down the vent will reduce the force of the supply, still get small temp controll with out killing off your heating budget especally if you are finishing / drying an item. The Navy uses this system on board their ships , usually to cool off a really hot space , engine room, boiler room etc.

Paul,

Although frugal, probably not a good idea from a couple of points of view. Since this is also a garage, most building codes will not allow a heat vent from the main house to feed/return the garage. Any fire starting in the garage, not to mention fumes from the cars/lawn mowers/weedeaters/whatever, can spread through the vent into the forced air system, subsequently throughout the house. Also, the actual penetration from the garage wall/ceiling is a no-no for the same reasons as above. The garage walls/ceiling should be separated from the rest of the living space by at least a 20-30 min. barrier.

I agree that if it wasn't a garage, it might be OK. If he could somehow close off that one bay and it not be a garage anymore, i.e., remove the garage door, then the heat duct might work.

My $.02 from a building inspector viewpoint.............

Richard Jones
Rice, VA

[Alex Cam]

I'm about 2 hours south of Saginaw -- the summers can get pretty brutal from a humidity standpoint.

It's attached to the house. I'm glad you brought that up -- I was wondering about the effect of insulating it and just seeing what the temperature stays at in the winter. Insulation is pretty cheap, and if I did it a little at a time it wouldn't dent my wallet too much.

[Chris Chavis]

I'm about 2 hours south of Saginaw -- the summers can get pretty brutal from a humidity standpoint.

It's attached to the house. I'm glad you brought that up -- I was wondering about the effect of insulating it and just seeing what the temperature stays at in the winter. Insulation is pretty cheap, and if I did it a little at a time it wouldn't dent my wallet too much.

I live in Northwest Indiana couple hours from you - so we probably get close to the same weather. Just spent $100 and insulated the shop ceiling which is a stall in our 3 car garage. Went to Menards and picked up 4 rolls of R19 for $20 something a piece. Threw up a 1/4" plywood wall between this stall and the two car part and with a small portable kerosene heater it can get quite toasty in there. That's w/o insulation on the walls and the garage door on that stall is uninsulated fiberglass - so thin you can see through it in spots.

Of course, it's not been really dead-of-winter cold yet, but there was a week where it was below freezing and I was out there in a sweatshirt and was fine. I figure when it does get that cold for extended periods I'll just go out there 20-30 mins before working out there and turn on the heater.