Need advice on table saw [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

Tim Wagner

11-14-2006, 7:19 AM

First I would like to say Thanks for allowing me to join your comunity. My name Is Tim Wagner, and I live in Lakewood, West of Cleveland Oh. I am an automechaninc by trade. I love photography and woodworking (thanks to my dear grandfather may he RIP). Also I am into gardening, and bird watching, and I also like to feed the squirrels. on to my questions.

After deciding to build a workshop out of the basement, I decided I would buy the Table saw first. So far I have chosen the Crafstman 10" Pro w/extensions. you can veiw it here. http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?cat=Bench+Power+Tools&pid=00922805000&vertical=TOOL&subcat=Table+Saws&BV_UseBVCookie=Yes

My other choice was the Rigid TS at Home Depot, but wasn't sure if I could add extensions, Also after some reading, I find that the Craftsman 3HP rating was at the lower end of what you want in a table saw. I can't really afford a cabinate saw at the currant 2100-2400 doller price tags I am seeing.

Do you think the sears model is a good choice? If there are any other models you think I should consider, please let me know.

Also does a left tilt arbor mean the blade itself tilts to the left? I am pretty sure thats what I want.

Thanks again for having me aboard, and Happy Hollidays to All!:D

Tom Jones III

11-14-2006, 8:11 AM

I don't have any experience with the sears saw but for that price I would look at the Grizzly 1023, one of the hybrid saws, or one of the high end contractor saws.

Bartee Lamar

11-14-2006, 8:15 AM

Tim,

There are many options in the price range of the Sears saw.

Actually I am surprised at the Sears saw. This looks like a true cabinet saw. Not sure who is manufactoring this.

You should look at grizzly.com at their 1023 line of saws. These will be very compariable to the sears saw.

IMHO 3hp is fine in a cabinet saw. If you have room in your shop you will never regret the wider extension on the right.

I am sure many more responses will provide further advice, but my best advise is to listen and learn alot before you buy.

You might also want to look on www.craigslist.com under tools for used saws. You really have to be diligent on craigs list. Good deals do show up, but are never there long. I have seen many used unisaws in the Atlanta area, some at very good prices. A lot of these older saws are all american made and excellent pieces of equipments.

So good luck and enjoy the journey....

Roger Hergenrader

11-14-2006, 8:20 AM

I belive Jet has theirs on sale for about $150/$200 higher than Sears and it is a true cabinet saw with extensions.

In answer your other question, if the saw is a left tilt, it means the blade tilts to the left.

Roger

Bartee Lamar

11-14-2006, 8:22 AM

Check out this thread...

Lots of good info

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=13579&highlight=bridgewood+powermatic

Kent Fitzgerald

11-14-2006, 8:23 AM

Tim, you have a lot more options than Sears and Home Depot. Like Tom said, take a good look at the Grizzly offerings. Also, Hartville Tool, not too far from you, has a big sale event going on next week with discounts on Delta and General equipment.

To answer some of your questions, any TS can be fitted with side and outfeed extensions, and yes, left tilt means the blade tilts to the left.

Welcome and enjoy,
Kent

Kent Fitzgerald

11-14-2006, 8:25 AM

I belive Jet has theirs on sale for about $150/$200 higher than Sears and it is a true cabinet saw with extensions.

FWIW, the Sears model is a "true cabinet saw."

Ken Belisle

11-14-2006, 8:41 AM

For what it's worth...........This is going to be my choice when I upgrade my current contractors saw. Best trunion out there........

Just my opinion

http://www.wilkemachinery.com/default.tpl?action=full&cart=1163511517193389&id=24&--woSECTIONSdatarq=24&--SECTIONSword=ww&--eqskudatarq=2907

scott spencer

11-14-2006, 8:47 AM

Hi Tim and welcome to SMC!

AFAIK, the Sears cab saw is made by Orion which is an associated business with the upstart Steel City line. Orion was formed by some former Delta employees when Pentair bought Delta several years ago.

I think you're on the right track looking at a full cabinet saw if you can swing it.....not much advantage in going with a contractor saw with the motor hanging out the back. There are alot of proven choices in the price range of the Sears cabinet saw. The saw might be fine, but I've heard very little about it. I'm a happy owner of an Orion made 22124 hybrid, but I don't see a significant advantage in price or features with the Sears cab saw over the competition. The Griz 1023, Jet, Uni, GI, Bridgewood, Shop Fox, Steel City and others can be found in the $1K-$1700 price range .....I'd definitely add them to the research list.

If you don't have 220v available, or don't want to spend ~$1K on a saw, consider a hybrid over a conventional contractor saw. They range in price from ~$400 to ~$1200.

Good luck and please keep us updated on your progress....

Tom Hamilton

11-14-2006, 8:50 AM

Welcome to the Creek, Tim. It is a fine place to hang out, learn and contribute.

Table saw questions always bring lots of ideas and you've received some good ones already.

If you are like me and want instant gratification then off to the Depot or Sears you go and you're home with a new saw. But, the advise to look at Craig's List for an older macnine is worthy of consideration. One place you might also poke around is the Old Woodworking Machines (OWWM.org) forum. These folks buy, restore, collect and sell old woodworking machines like some folks do cars. A wanted to buy post there might yield a nicely restored Unisaw in your neighborhood.

Enjoy the search process and we will look forward to pics of your new saw and the projects you make with it.

Best regards, Tom, in Houston, using a 1948 Boice-Crane Tablesaw.

Randal Stevenson

11-14-2006, 3:22 PM

What is shipping going to run you? Because if shipping is comparable, I would consider getting one of the rebuilt Delta Unisaws that are on special over at Redmond machinary.
How many HP is the Craftsman really, I hate that "developed hp" baloney!

Develop more HP, eat a diaretic, then your HP goes up in a rush to the bathroom!;)

Kent Fitzgerald

11-14-2006, 3:24 PM

How many HP is the Craftsman really, I hate that "developed hp" baloney!

According to the link, 3 real HP, 6 "maximum developed" HP.

Tim Wagner

11-14-2006, 6:51 PM

Wow! Thanks for all the warm welcome(s). I can't wait to get a saw, but I will definatley take my time choosing. I knew I just didn't want to haul off and just buy. I have been looking for days to find a nice site to get some good advice and looks like I found it.

Geting a new saw (or used) will sure beat using crooked 2X4's for a guide for my circular saw. I hesitate to buy the first thing i see, or use price as a buying guide because I bought a sliding compound miter saw that cost 150 dollers off ebay. when I use it the arm flexes while pulling down on it, so doesn't give me a accurate cut.

I will definatly check out the refurbed items. one thing I noticed is that, remembering back to my grandfathers saw (don't remember what kind) it had a knob on the fence that was gear driven, and you could turn it to slide the fence. now the two saws I have seen so far don't have this feature.

I have always been mechanicly inclined, but the further I get down the road in my years, the more I feel the need to become more DIY in everything I do, Is this the way it happens for everyone?

thanks for all the replies, and happy wood working to all.;)

Chris Rosenberger

11-14-2006, 7:31 PM

Tim,
Are you also looking at used saws? I know someone in Parma, OH that rebuilds Delta Unisaws. I got an email from him last week & he had a 3hp Unisaw with 52" fence for sale. He does a good job on the saws. I bought one from him. If you are interested, PM me with your email address & I will get his contact info to you.

Ben Roman

11-14-2006, 7:51 PM

I have the Ridgid TS3650 and I like it !! I want a Sawstop someday !

Ben

Tim Wagner

11-16-2006, 6:40 PM

Well there are so many choices, and there all about the same in price. It seems I tend to keep veiwing the grizzley site at the 1023 models. maybe it's cause my favorite color is green. But, as luck would have it I ran accross this bad boy. Powermatic model 66 (http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=17170)

Does anyone have this saw? Do they like it? specs seem very nice. it would be probly just the right size as pictured. Other question is, Will they deliver and put it in the basement for me? Will it fit thru a 30" entry door and go 90° to the right and down a 30" wide staircase to the basement?

I don't know if it is because it says OVERSOLD!!!, but it just talkes to me thru my computer saying, buy me, buy me. I'll have to think about how long I want to go without. at 2200 dollers It would be mid next year or so probley, or december/january if i get a grizzley.

Thanks all.

Jim Becker

11-16-2006, 8:02 PM

Tim, the PM66 is the "gold standard" when it comes to beefy table saws...

The Grizzly 1023 series (with the Biesemeyer clone fences) get kudos from just about every owner, however, and represent a very good value in a cabinet saw.

John Kain

11-16-2006, 9:20 PM

Hey Tim,

The Craftsman and Ridgid saws aren't even in the same league as the Powermatic 66. There were alot of good saws noted previously, and believe me, I've tried them all.

I'd shoot for a used saw if I could, then concentrate on saws you will never have to upgrade for. I don't think you mentioned a top cost, but I'd shoot hard for a true cabinet saw in the lines of Jet, Powermatic, Sawstop, Bridgewood, Delta Uni, Grizzly/Shopfox.....something you can pass down generations.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the Craftsman and Ridgid are fine machines, but IMHO, don't compare with the accuracy and stability of the higher end models. Actually, I'd compare (first hand) the higher end hybrid saws to the Craftsman cabinet saw.

Now I'll be the first to tell you I'm very biased against Craftsman. Too many debacles for me. I do like the Ridgid line though.

Bottom line: you need to go check out the saws in action. Note the stability of the machine, the accuracy of repeated cuts, the trunion "might", the decibels the saw operates at....etc, etc.

Tim Wagner

11-16-2006, 9:50 PM

Kent Fitzgerald

11-16-2006, 10:23 PM

Grizzly 1023 vs. Powermatic 66: either of these is more than enough saw for a hobby shop. It boils down to whether you want 150% overkill or 200% overkill. :D

One thing to think about is that you'll get more woodworking done with a Grizzly in your basement than a Powermatic on your wish list

Other question is, Will they deliver and put it in the basement for me? Will it fit thru a 30" entry door and go 90° to the right and down a 30" wide staircase to the basement?
Depends who "they" are. If you buy from a local retailer, you might be able to negotiate in-home delivery into the deal. If you order off the web, you generally get freight service, which means a truck shows up at your address and it's up to you to get the 500+ lb machine off the truck. $50 or so extra (or sometimes just good luck) will get you liftgate delivery to the curb. You might be looking at some dissasembly to get it down the stairs.

Noah Katz

11-17-2006, 2:51 AM

"Tim, the PM66 is the "gold standard" when it comes to beefy table saws..."

How does the PM2000 fare in that regard? It seems to weigh about the same.

Ken Consaul

11-22-2006, 1:26 PM

Its for a Jet cabinet saw with extension table, router and router table?

http://timberlinetools.com/product_p/jet%20708663bk.htm

I did some price checking and its an outstanding deal but some of the reviews on Amazon complain about both the quality of the motor and of the X-acta fence.

Anyone?

Curt Harms

11-22-2006, 2:31 PM

This grizzley model (http://www.grizzly.com/products/G1023SLWX) is My other choice.:D

I am not sure who around here would have any setup to veiw, but the nearest showroom to me is 5hrs 20 min away in PA

I'm not certain they're still doing it, but if You call, they used to have people with the machine you are interested that would let You look at their machine. You'd get a chance to touch and possibly use. If You make the road trip, You may be like a one eyed dog in a meat market:D I've had a G1023 since 1996 for hobby use. No problems. Good luck on your choice, there's a bunch of 'em.

Curt

JayStPeter

11-22-2006, 3:06 PM

Given full price, I would get the Grizzly. However, the sears saw has been known to go on sale and dip below $1K. IMO, this could be the best buy under $1K out there. I still think the Grizzly and Wilke are better saws in your price range.

lou sansone

11-22-2006, 3:16 PM

I agree with the others. In your price range the green machines are pretty decent from what I know of them ( my brother owns one and really likes it ). A good used PM would also be a fine saw. My one bit of advise is to see if you can find a saw with a true riving knife.

lou

John Hedges

11-22-2006, 3:26 PM

Ken Consaul

11-22-2006, 6:17 PM

Made some inquiries on another forum and found:
The Bosch 1617 is motor only.
The router part of the table is plate only w/o lift. However, I believe the 1617 has some adjustment capabilities on its own. This may be as it comes with the fixed body, though.

Still, a good deal. I checked local price at $1700 and this was for the saw and the extension table only. No router or cabinet on the right.
Amazon had same package as the local dealer for 1400.

Understand there is a $100 Jet rebate involved somewhere. If so, sweeeeeet!

CPeter James

11-22-2006, 6:37 PM

The PM66 is prices about $250 more than the PM2000. PM still considers it the top of their line. That said, the PM2000 has some nice features, the built in wheels that fully retract to set the saw back down solidly, the riving knife, the better dust collection, the built in arbor lock to aid in removing the blade, and more. It does not have the level of fit and finish that the PM66 has, but it is an extremely good saw.

The Grizz 1023 is half the money and still a fine, heavy duty machine that will probably hold a higher percentage of its value down the road than most of the others. There are thousands of them out there in commercial shops, working hard day in and day out. Service is good and parts are available.

The sears Saw may be OK or better, but I dislike dealing with people who have to "fake" the ratings of their machines to make them look good. Too much hype, not enough machine.

Me, I have a 14 year old PM66 that I bought used for 40% of new. I replaced the belts and arbor bearings, just because, for a total cost of under $40. It has a Baldor true 3 hp motor. They are out there. The secret to finding one is to keep your eyes and ears open and not need it this week. Be prepared to strike when the chance occurs.

Unless you have unlimited funds, The Grizz 1023 in one of its many configurations would be my choice. While you are at it, get the Grizz G0490 jointer to compliment your saw. After the Grizz, most of the saws mentioned would make you happy. When you get into this level of equipment, you really should buy from someone who specializes in machinery.......not someone who also sells washing machines and underwear.

Sorry if I hurt someone's feelings, but the service beyond the sale is important and you need to be dealing with specialists, not generalists.

CPeter

CPeter

Tim Wagner

01-19-2007, 7:12 PM

Ok I think I have narrowed things down a bit, and need some advise on two differant models.

my first choice is the http://www.grizzly.com/products/G1023SLWX
it's on back order, it has a 5hrs motor and is 125 dollers more than my second choice. http://www.grizzly.com/products/G1023SLW which is a 3hrs motor. Before I contact them to see if they have this in stock, I thought I would get some input from the gang here on wheather you see a huge differance in the two to make me wait a month (or more since they already backed the ETA up on the G1023SLWX by a month Once already) Or if I should just Order the SLW providing they have it in stock. 3 HP should be OK right??

Thanks.:D

Jim Becker

01-19-2007, 8:36 PM

If the 3hp machine is in stock and you are not cutting 12/4 material 8 hours a day, every day...go for it. You will not likely ever notice the difference in power. IMHO. Nice saw, BTW. Great value.

One thing you do need to consider is whether or not you want to buy the longer rails. (Better now than paying shipping later...)

Tim Wagner

01-19-2007, 9:02 PM

what do you mean by 12/4? is that more like 12"X4"? I also notice others mention 4/4 or 5/4 when it comes to wood, and often wondered what those numbers represent.

Mark Riegsecker

01-19-2007, 9:39 PM

Tim,

It must be an old term that just sticks with us. Like 8,12,16 penny nails. That, I've heard came from how many nails one could get for a penny. I don't know if that's true but of course not so any more. But when 12 penny is mentioned you can visualize it being about 2" long and know if that's adaquate for the job at hand.

I think those quarters came from the same time (way back when) and that's a long time you know. It too is easy to visualize when you understand it's meaning and easy to remember.

Just think of 1/4" +1/4" +1/4" +1/4" = 1"
So 4/4 = 1" , 8/4 = 2" , 12 divided by 4 = 3

That's what Jim was referring to a 3" board. But I warn you don't go to a BORG and expect anyone to know what you just learned.:D

As far as I know rough lumber is 4/4, a full 1" before it's surfaced. If it is, it's about the only measurement out there that's true because it's been a long while since I've seen 3/4" plywood.
I like to get rough lumber and plane myself because I can sometimes get a clean board that measures 7/8" thick.

Mark

Jim Becker

01-19-2007, 10:10 PM

Yes, Tim, I was referring to 3" thick material.

Tim Wagner

01-19-2007, 11:27 PM

But I warn you don't go to a BORG and expect anyone to know what you just learned.:D

I don't associate with them. I do not wish to be assimilated. :cool:

Mike Jobe

01-19-2007, 11:43 PM

I have owned a 10' craftsman contractor since 97, its been a good work horse for me. BUT, I recently bought the powermatic 66, and wow, what I have been missing, my opinion, if you can save a little more and wait just a little longer you will never regret the powermatic buy. It costs more but if you shop around on craigslist or even ebay you can find them out there at a good price. I think it was stated before that this saw is the gold standard and in my opinion is the best on the market hands down.

Tim Wagner

01-21-2007, 2:46 AM

Well the 3 HP model is on backorder aswell, So I'll just wait and get the 5 HP.

Does anyone have a picture of a Riving Knife? I am trying to imagine what it looks like and what it's used for?

Mike Null

01-21-2007, 8:38 AM

Tim:

I would suggest that you visit Rockler or Woodcraft and pick up one of the tablesaw books they sell. It'll be about $20 and has info you're going to need anyway. But it'll show you what all the devices are and also how to make some very useful jigs.

I second looking on Craig's list for a good used TS.

Mike Heidrick

01-21-2007, 10:15 AM

Well the 3 HP model is on backorder aswell, So I'll just wait and get the 5 HP.

Does anyone have a picture of a Riving Knife? I am trying to imagine what it looks like and what it's used for?

Here is a picture of the riving knife. On the sawstop the blade and guard/riving-knife mechanism move straight up and down so you can use the knife at all height settings of the blade.

Tim Wagner

01-21-2007, 11:23 AM

How many have actualy used craig's list. I have to tell you. I am very leary about it. the pages seem little more than a few sentances thrown together to make a breif discriptiuon. No detailed discriptions, (that I have ever seen) I have never seen a Picture of any of the products. Maybe I just don't navigate the pages correctly.

How do i check the credibility of the seller? i.e like ebay's feedback section

what about buyers protection?

I just don't feel as secure like i do on Ebay.

Along with the books mentioned, I would like to know what DVD's are out there w/solid wood working projects. I have Diy network on all the time, but I just wish they had more In shop WWS'S insted of a full afternoon of Crafting shows. heck This Old House is the best show on that channle.

Anyway, Maybe some one could PM me, and give me some pointers on how to navigate that CL, and how to tell who is trust worthy and who is not.

ther is also the problem of getting t5he unit home, as I don't have a pick-up or a big truck to use. I guess I could get a Ball and hitch for my Brother-in-laws Explorer, and rent a U-haul trailer or something.

Maybe if someone finds something in my leauge they could bring it to my attention. I live in Cleveland ohio. I need a saw with 3-5 HP, 220V, and single phase. I also want a Router table on the side. hence the reason i wanted that particular Grizzley model. Left tilt. not all beat up and a bizzilion years old.

I know of a 1988 unisaw supposidly being fixed up with 52" fence.

Tim, I do have a saw available. It is a 3hp single phase saw built in 1988. I have completely gone through it and repaired anything wrong. I am finishing up the side table for it and it will be ready for sale shortly. My asking price would probably be about $850 for the saw with the fence and side table. I will get some pictures later today and send details when I send the pictures.

is this a good deal? he never did get back to me, and that email was dated 11/16/06.

this group has been most responsive with me in helping me out. and I thank you. I am into the Saltwater aquarium thing too, and several groups have what they call frag swaps. everyone will grow out coral frags and bring them to a central location, a Party of sorts, i.e someones house or whatnot, and they would trade with eachother and buy and sell. Do we do anything like that in this Hobby?

For my first project I have to cut a rotten floor out from under the sink cabinat in the kitchen and replace it. the actual floor part of the cabinate itself. so after i rip it out I need to install a 3/4X5" ledger board around the sides and back so I can screww the melameen to it. I could only get a 3/4X6" board and I have to rip it down to 5" because HD doesn't do rip job's, pricks. So I have been saving the Job for I have something to try my new saw on. I could use my circular saw, but you understand.

thanks for spending your time talking with me here.:)

Tim Wagner

01-21-2007, 11:29 AM

That looks like it prevents kickback??

I also forgot to include in my last post that I currantly have 1200.00 to spend. and still saving.

Mike Jobe

01-22-2007, 4:27 PM

Tim,
To answer your question regarding Craigs list, it is like any other newpaper by classified, with any purchase you would want to ask questions and get a feel for the purchase. With a saw like this, you would more than likely buy locally, so you could actually see and touch before you buy. That is my rule of thumb, if its expensive buy local on Craigs.
Mike

Greg Peterson

01-22-2007, 6:16 PM

With Craigslist, I have had more misses than hits, both as a buyer and seller.
Your results may vary.

When wood working tools come up on Craigslist, at least out here, you better be mobile, get there quick and have money in hand.

There are deals to be had, but in my experiences, they are rare.

Tim Wagner

01-22-2007, 8:41 PM

you better be mobile

therein the problem lies. if close i could see it and pay right away, but would take a day or two to arrange time off and a vehicle.

do you all see a problem with having a router table built into the table saw. I just am having second thoughts now about the 7' rails. I just thought about the acrylic i want to work with. I'll be using 4X8 sheets on occassion. and if that acrylic isn't sitting flat and straight. it may just come flying apart. I may just decide to get a seporate router shaper thingy.

as a side note, what was the size of that jointer Norm uses in his NYW? it looked to be 12 or 16" pasibly. what would a good size be.

Jim Becker

01-22-2007, 10:54 PM

Unless he has upgraded, Norm's jointer is a Delta DJ-20 8" jointer.

I just sold my Jet LT Table Saw to a Craig's List buyer...she picked it up this afternoon as we couldn't hook up on the weekend. In fact, she did the PayPal transaction from my network after making a "test cut", etc. But as was already said, it's pretty much just like any classified situation and the buyer/seller dance varies with the people involved. My saw buyer told me that when she went to pick up the jointer she bought, the guy cut off the cord and plug right in front of her 'cause he didn't want to included it...I included both the cord and twist lock as well as a 6' extension with twist locks and the 20 amp receptical for the wall.

BTW, if you can't get the Grizzly machine you want soon enough due to backorder, check out the Shop Fox versions at dealers.

Tim Wagner

01-23-2007, 10:14 PM

BTW, if you can't get the Grizzly machine you want soon enough due to backorder, check out the Shop Fox versions at dealers.

http://www.bibbtool.com/shop-left-tilt-tablesaw-classic-fence-rails-220v-single-phase-p-738.html

I found this one. question is, the arbor size of 5/8. will that accept a full dado set? shouldn't it be closer to an inch?

has anyone ever gotten there saw dissasembled? if not I'll be taking it apart in the frt yard and snow to get it downstairs.

Dave Harker

01-23-2007, 10:52 PM

tim, here is what you can expect to get when you take delivery of your Grizzly 1023 saw (pics of my delivery and setup in link below - scroll down past the jointer assembly section to see table saw assembly section).

Mine is 3hp, and is very, very powerful. I'm very glad I bought it, and would buy it again. Yes, it accepts a full dado set, the 5/8" is the diameter of the arbor, not the available length (which is much longer than 5/8").

http://webpages.charter.net/harkerhome/WWShop/grizzly2004tools.html

Tim Wagner

01-23-2007, 11:04 PM

this is going to be fun. how wide is that base? me and one other guy has to slip it down a 30" wide staircase to the basement.

Dave Harker

01-23-2007, 11:41 PM

Tim, I just measured mine. The bottom part of the saw's base, where it meets the wheeled mobile base, is 20.5" square.

Don Brillhart

01-25-2007, 11:20 AM

Chris Padilla

01-25-2007, 12:18 PM

I just sold my Jet LT Table Saw

Oooh! Whatcha get to replace 'er? Due to my infrequency lately, I probably missed the gloat thread...kindly point me to it! :)

Grizzly 1023 is a great value...I've had one going on 5 years now and I wish it would die so I could get a Saw Stop!! Oh well.... :D

Don Bullock

01-25-2007, 5:13 PM

Check out the Steel City hybrid saws For the same money as the Sears saw you can get a saw with the trunions mounted to the cabinet, not suspended from the table like a contractor saw. As far as I know, Steel City makes the only hybrid saw that not only looks like a table saw but has the same configuration of the drive mechanism.
Don Brillhart

Steel City currently has some nice rebates too. $100, $150 or $200 depending on the saw. It's sure worth a look.:D

http://www.steelcitytoolworks.com/rebate.cfm?section=5

Ted Miller

01-25-2007, 5:35 PM

Tim, I want to say that all of my heavier equipment came from craigs list. I have made some good freinds as well from that auction site. The main thing is no shipping charges but of course you must have a truck and help to pick up the larger pieces. I also buy up wood from shops that are closing down or just cleaning up shop very cheap from that site. I only look at purchases within 50 miles of my zip code.

Expect to spend hours of assembly and fine tuning when you purchase online for the larger pieces...

Scott Donley

01-26-2007, 12:13 PM

Check out the Steel City hybrid saws For the same money as the Sears saw you can get a saw with the trunions mounted to the cabinet, not suspended from the table like a contractor saw. As far as I know, Steel City makes the only hybrid saw that not only looks like a table saw but has the same configuration of the drive mechanism.
Don BrillhartJust a note, the Sears zipcode saws are also cabinet mounted trunions.

Jim Becker

01-26-2007, 2:31 PM

Just a note, the Sears zipcode saws are also cabinet mounted trunions.

And, I believe...made by the same manufacturer. Compare the included accessories.

Tim Wagner

01-26-2007, 7:46 PM

well i visited the PM66 and a saw stop today. i'll probibly get a PM2000.

One thing tho. Do you all use the stock miter guides? they just don't look as sturdy as I remember them, and I thought that the whole guide/ rail would be T shaped.

Jim Becker

01-26-2007, 8:14 PM

I used my stock Jet miter constantly for strictly 90º cutting and kept a 1/2" MDF sacrificial face on it. (I used a sled for 45º miters) I've not seen a miter gage with the whole guide bar "tee-d", just a fixture at the front to keep it from lifting and sometimes another at the back. They are usually removable, too, so you can use the miter gage on tools that do not have the tee slot design.

PM2000 is a very, very nice saw. The incorporation of the riving knife and dust shroud is very nice and the built in mobility is thoughtful. (Figure you would have spent anywhere between $90 and $200 for a mobile base...and now you can invest that in blades)

Tim Morton

01-26-2007, 8:31 PM

Oooh! Whatcha get to replace 'er? Due to my infrequency lately, I probably missed the gloat thread...kindly point me to it! :)

Grizzly 1023 is a great value...I've had one going on 5 years now and I wish it would die so I could get a Saw Stop!! Oh well.... :D

Yes Jim, curious minds need to know!!!:D :D

Jim Becker

01-26-2007, 8:35 PM

Yes Jim, curious minds need to know!!!

Patience, please...perhaps a week more...and this is Mr. Wagner's thread!

Tim Wagner

02-10-2007, 7:27 PM

Well I had to visit woodcraft today, and Low and behold they had a PM 2000 set up. I got to see it, touch it, and fondal it. I think it will be a beutiful relationship. The nice heavy cranks, base, and table are all A1 quality. but I am not saying anything ya'll don't already know.:)

won't be long now. :D:D:D:D:D

Joe Spear

02-11-2007, 11:31 AM

5/8" arbor is the diameter of the bolt (and the hole in the blade), not the length of the arbor bolt. The length varies on different saws. A contractor or benchtop saw will have bolt (usually) that is shorter than that of a cabinet saw, limiting the width of the dado set you can install. For example, I think that the Freud variable dado set will not fit on a Ridgid 3650 because the arbor bolt is too short, but it will fit on a cabinet saw. I think, though, on most contractor saws you can fit a conventional dado set that cuts up to 3/4" wide.

Tim Wagner

02-25-2007, 6:28 PM

Ok I need to do one last comparison before i buy.

What are the best places online for

PM2000

Saw Stop

and General 650

I seem to be having trouble getting results in particular for the non-International General.

Thanks.
:D

Tim Wagner

03-27-2007, 7:57 PM

Well the Sawn (pm2k) is up, and running. Already riped a piece of pine on it to test it out. besides the fact that I still have the sticky stuff on the top, It cuts smooth as silk.

thanks for all the advice. simply a great group of WW's to speak with.

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Jim Summers

03-27-2007, 9:06 PM

Tim Wagner

03-27-2007, 11:20 PM

It went just fine. However, I found that after I removed the old piece, it was apparent that it wasn't seated all the way on the gear. the set screw marks were right on the end of the peice. I also don't believe the angle of the arbor had anything to do with the failure. I found that the wheels were retracted all the way, and they couldn't come up anymore. my fault.:o

Now I just need to get a Dado. Started a thread Here. (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=54944)

And get or make a couple featherboards, clean the top and wax it. small stuff.

I'll list some pics of the wheel assembly and some others tomorrow. too late now.

thanks. Tim.

Gene Bukovi

03-28-2007, 11:31 AM

PM2000 is a great choice. I did get my Delta 36-818 going and used it last night. I cut cherry strips 1.50" wide and they measured within .001 from end to end on a 43" long piece. I was impressed. I came from the steel industry my shears at work are not this accurate. I am using a Freud 10" 80 tooth ATB. Good luck on your saw.

Gene

Tim Wagner

03-28-2007, 9:40 PM

one question. I did a test cut yesterday, and ripped a piece of pine 2X6 to 3" in order to ckeck the scale on the fence. It was dead on. It was a bit of a rough cut because I had not yet gotten all the sticky stuff off yet, but other than that it cut nice. But this morning i was just looking at the cut peice I had and noticed that it was, from end to end, concaved on the cut side and bowed slightly on the factory edge.

Now did it:

A: warp in that quick of time?
B: Did I not get a good cut cause I didn't clean the table?
C: Or is my saw messed up?

I cleaned the top with some solvent and I have 5 coats of turtle wax on it now (it's what i had here now) is that enough?

Tim.