Newbie needs help!!!

[Anthony Garrett]

Hello Everybody,
I'm new to group and new to woodworking as well. I guess I'm the King of the Newbie's, and I need help desperately. Do to budget issues I need advice on the following items: 1. Hand Planes-- What's the best of the low end planes, Groz or Anant, or should I spend a little more money and go with Kunz? 2. Chisels-- You've got C.I. Fall, HMG, Two Cherries etc. Again, I can't spend a fortune on these so what's the groups advice on which brand to start with? Any and all help is greatly appreciated!!:D

[Mike Henderson]

For decent low cost chisels, I'd recommend the Irwin blue handle. You can often find a set at Costco or one of the other discount houses. These aren't the top-of-the line chisels but they're good, serviceable chisels that will provide value even if you later buy a higher cost set.

If you don't already know, you will need to learn how to sharpen properly.

Mike

[Michael Gabbay]

I second the Marples. They are a great working set with good steel. As for planes, look at used Stanleys from the early 1900's. There are a few online dealers and many available at flea markets. The online guys will generally sell nice quality (flat soles and good condition) for the same as a new low end plane.

[Roy Griggs]

Anthony,
For planes I would recommend looking at antique Stanley's or Millers Falls which can be had for about the same or less than Kunz or Groz or Anant. A good source is always e-bay but you would probably do well to spend a little more to buy from one of the many dealers in old tools who are members of the various woodworking forums. Many have planes that are already cleaned and are ready to be put to work after sharpening.

I will agree with the Marples chisels but would also throw out another cheaper alternative...I have a set of Stanley No. 60 chisels with the yellow plastic handles and the metal striking caps; butt ugly and almost indestructible. Not made for fine woodworking but are a good first set.
Will take and hold a good edge though not the finest. My set were inherited and I've had them for 30+ years.

The antique tools are still out there and will serve you well at a lower initial investment in cash, although they are seldom ready to use when you get them, and you need to learn what to look for. The process of cleaning and sharpening, etc. can help you learn about your tools. I prefer the old tools and most of my tools are older than I am!!! (And in better shape for their age.)
roy

[Jake Helmboldt]

Anthony, I also say go used on the plane. No 4 smoothers are a dime a dozen. Do a little homework like Patrick Leach's Blood & Gore site to ID the age of planes.

I am relatively new to handplanes for anything other than rough work and I got a nice 1930s Stanley and put a Lie Nielsen thick blade in and it works great. All for less than a new plane. And unless you buy a Veritas or Lie Nielsen you will have to fettle a new plane anyway, so get something you know is made well. Besides, the fettling is a good way to familiarize yourself with the tool and if it is in decent shape it won't take much time to get it ready, especially with a new blade. It seems the longest time I spend on a used plane is cleaning up an abused iron that is chipped or ground crooked.

Jake

[Mike Henderson]

Just to clarify - the Irwin and Marples are the same thing, except you probalby won't find new Marples any more. Irwin bought Marples and still makes the same stuff but brands it as Irwin instead of Marples. If you find a Marples is probably old stock (which is not a bad thing), but if you see the Irwin brand, that's not a bad thing either.

Mike

[Robert Rozaieski]

I have a set of 8 Marples blue chips that I'll sell you if you are interested. The sizes are 1/8", 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", 3/4", 1", 1-1/4" and 1-1/2". They were my first set of cabinet chisels and served me well for years.

The backs are already flat since I already flattened them and I'll touch them up on my stones before I ship them off so they are shaving sharp when you get them. Just unpack and use, no initial setup.

Woodcraft sells the 8 piece set for $70 plus another $36 to sharpen them all. I'll sell them to you sharpened for $50 plus shipping to your address. You will just have to maintain the edges. If you are interested, send me an email at robert_rozaieski@merck.com and we can make the arrangements.

Bob
Glad to grease the slope for yet another!

[Zahid Naqvi]

Anthony, first of all welcome to the creek, it's a good place to swim. I think you already have valuable advice above. Since you stated you are new to WW'ing I will start with the basics, my apologies if this is redundant information.

I started like you a few years ago and on advice from several experienced neanders went the old tool route. The restoration process will help you understand the workings of a tool and what parts play what role towards the end product, i.e. what they do to wood. Some people don't have the patience to go through the restore process before they can use their newly acquired tool, for them there are many new tool options. I guess one decision you have to make in the beginning is what's more valuable to you; time or money, the follow up decision will depend on this.

I really enjoyed the restoration process so for me it a was a no brainer. There are several folks on the creek who restore and sell old tools, this is also a cost effective option.

Lastly, and the most imortant consideration, using the tools is more important than acquiring them. Start small, use what you have for a while and as time goes by and the scope of your projects expands you will feel the need for new tools. Acquire them as the need arises.

As for planes, you will need to determine an order in which you have to acquire these. There is a whole list of planes for all kinds of specialized tasks. The first two most people get is a #5 jack and a block plane, followed by a #4 or #3 smoother. Others follow behind as needed. A used stanley #5 with some rust and needing cleanup will run you between $20-$50 depending on condition. For around $60/70 you can get a fully restored and tuned #5. Probably the most liked stanley block plane is the 60-1/2. This is a low angle block plane and you can get one in very good condition requiring minimal work between $30-$40. Once you have used these for a few months you will be educated enough to make up your own mind on the next steps. I don't have much know how on the new plane market but Lee Valley/Veritas and Lie Nielson are excellent planes. Their #5 equivalents are around $200-$300 range and their block planes are in the $120-$150 range. Both these companies make excellent planes and they are ready to go out of the box. I would stay away from Kunz, Buck Bros and Anant. These planes even when new require a lot of work before thay are usable, you can buy an older Stanley for less amount, make it usable with less effort and you will end up with a much higher quality tool.

As for chisels the Irwin/Marples blue handle chisels are great starters. The only difference between these and some of the higher end is the frequency of sharpening needed.

Which brings us to another very important aspect of working with handtools, sharpening. You will need to acquire a sharpening solution at the same time as you acquire your first edge tool. Do a search for "Scary sharp" and you will find a setup which uses sandpaper. Very easy to setup and cost effective. Then there are water stones and oil stones. This is a whole entire discussion in itself. There are several threads on this which have been discussed in the past, do a search on SMC and you will find some very valuable information on sharpening.

[Bob Hallowell]

for the planes I would also recommend the used route, That's all I have and they have served me great.

For chisels I would recommend the mhg, hartville tool has them on sale for $80 for a boxed set of 6 right now. http://www.hartvilletool.com/product/11737

I own a few and love them.

Bob

[Mike Henderson]

Another set you could try is this one Lee Valley (http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=49989&cat=1,41504,43500&ap=1)sells. I haven't use them, but if Lee Valley is standing behind them, I would believe they are good.

Set of 8 for $58.50.

Mike

[Steve Wargo]

I will echo the Irwins for the money, but if you can find a set of the new Nooitgadagt on ebay I think that you'll get more bang for your buck. They are usually around $7-9 per chisels and sold in sets. They are a nice buy. Good luck.

[Clint Jones]

If I were starting out I would go with purchasing an older stanley no.5 and retuning it rather than fork out the $$ for something like a LN or Veritas. Like Zahid said this will get you familiar with all of the planes parts and how they work. Also learn to keep your blades sharp this will make a big difference. I know this should be in the classifieds but I have a nearly new stanley 5c I will sell you for $30.00 plus shipping it has been used only a handful of times and has a full length blade. A plane like this is an ideal starter.

[Greg Salata]

I must agree with the others. Find some good old Stanley users and you will not be sorry. They will be better quality than the new cheapies.

Good Luck

[jonathan snyder]

I agree with the others, go with an old stanley to start with. I would suggest a pre-war plane, much better quality than the newer stanleys.

If you dont want to go the e-bay route, try Sandy Moss @ http://www.sydnassloot.com/tools.htm

or Walt Q @ http://www.brasscityrecords.com/toolworks/toolindex.html

I have bought from both of these folks, and been very satisified, you will get a good user. If your not sure what type to look for, e-mail or call either of these guys, they will help!

check out these sites for info on stanley planes

http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan0a.html

http://www.hyperkitten.com/tools/stanley_bench_plane/dating/index.html

http://www.hyperkitten.com/tools/stanley_bench_plane/dating/type_study.html

JOnathan

[Brian Kent]

Over the last ten months I've collected about a dozen planes, used and new, and have worked with most. The one I keep on going back to is the Rosewood Jack plane (I got it at Japan Woodworker for $36) "Rosewood 11" Jack Plane for Hardwoods - #AH1059-150". My other all-the-time plane is a Lie-Nielson low angle block plane. I checked on prices for you and found one for $75 delivered (http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_p/A!221.htm).

Both the Rosewood and the block plane have A2 blades sharpened to 60-62. If I had more funds I might have gone with the adjustable mouth block plane but I have been extremely happy with the one I got.

[Clinton Findlay]

The two offers of selling the chisel and plane seem pretty good to me, I'd snag the plane myself if I wasn't on the other side of the globe. :rolleyes: