Mini Max Bandsaw adjustment problems

[Jim O'Dell]

Ok, so I got the Mini Max E16 cleaned up yesterday afternoon late...didn't plan to look at it until today. I built a back panel for the contractor saw (Ridgid 3612) that took most of the morning. Decided that bandaw had failed to have a blade on it for far too long, so broke out the 3/4" blade and stuck it on. Well, that required looking at the alignment of the upper rack and pinion system, and saw how out of alignment it was. No surprise. I aligned the blade guard in both up and down positions, and watched it moving up and down, everything seemed fine. Tightened the mechanism by it's two bolts, and it puts the rack in a bind against something, to the point that you can't hardly adjust it up and down. I found two set screws on the right side of the column, but tightening them with a hex key also puts the rack in a bind. They seem to run into the back side of the rack. Don't have any idea what they could be for. Thought at first it adjusted some type of pad inside the shaft that would keep the rack running true inside the tube. I do know it looks a little like an after thought as the access holes in the frame are wallered out a little, and don't align up well with the set screws. I've used the touch up paint on the upper one, but haven't touched the lower one yet.

So MM gurus, does the alignment mechanism need a washer between it and the back plate of the frame so that the rack doesn't bind against the frame? I did see a little evidence of paint flakes on the rack after forcing it up and down while it was in a bind, though I couldn't find where they came from. Does it sound like this unit adjusts like it's big brothers, or does it sound like it is a totally different animal/design?
49924This picture shows the openings for the 2 set screws


The other question is the amount of blade that hangs over the wheel. Which is proper, again using a 3/4" blade.

49921This picture is the bottom wheel.

49922This one is the upper wheel with just a little blade hanging over (too little?)

49923 This last pic is a little more hanging over. No matter how I adjusted the upper wheel, the bottom stayed the same. I'm sure it has a different adjustment, but what am I getting into with the pulley and belts? The 1/4" blade might be a problem if this much of it was over the bottom tire, but is the 3/4" ok?

Thanks for looking. I hope someone has some ideas. Jim.

[Jim Becker]

My 1/2" and 1" blades all hang over the edge of the wheels on my MM16...and that is the proscribed way to track them. (The added benefit is that the tension on the wheels isn't futzing around with your tooth set and they cut straighter for much longer in my experience)

Specific adjustments to the E16 are going to be harder to help with...not too many of them represented at SMC to the best of my knoweldge. You might post on the MM forum on Yahoo Groups. The link is on the MM web site if you don't have it.

[Jim O'Dell]

Yeah, I was hoping the adjustments sounded like they might be similar to the MM16. I may just try to put a washer behind each bolt to space the piece away from the cabinet. It has to be rubbing/binding there somewhere since it only has a problem when it is tightened down.
On the blades, how much overhang is the right amount. Just the edge of the teeth, or to the gullet? Thanks! Jim.

[lou sansone]

I have found over the years not to worry about the blade hang over the wheel thing. I know that mm and laguna like to talk about it, and for a while I set my saws up like that, but it didn't seem to buy me anything. with my 36" saw there is just no way to really do this with 1/2" blades. the wheels are 2" wide ( some 36" saws use 2.25" wide wheels ). I keep all blades centered and have never had any issue, but the wheels do have a crown on them.

lou

[Jim O'Dell]

But, Lou, isn't that the difference in use between a crowned wheel and a flat wheel? Crowned are to run in the center, flat off the edge? Now I'm not the expert here, and look for those in the know to correct me if I'm wrong. I would also think running a blade off the edge of a crowned wheel to be pretty near impossible.
I'm remembering this from either posts here, or from reading Mark Duginske's 'The Bandsaw Handbook', (and don't own a copy to verify) but want to make sure how far off the wheel the blade runs on a flat tire. Just the tip of the blade, or to the gullett? And then if the bottom wheel is as critical or not. Right now the blade on my bottom wheel is slightly more that to the gullett, and would appear to be a pain in the tookus to adjust. :eek: Thanks again! Jim.

[Mark Singer]

All the larger blades run over the edge and that is prefered...my Aggazzani does as well

[Bill Simmeth]

To the center of a properly crowned, quality rubber tire is the time-honored way to track a blade. Sure, it's much faster and cheaper to set up a wheel and tire without proper crowning using neoprene or other such material (no doubt why 'modern' mfrs push this). Keep in mind that band blades need a crown to track properly. Running on the rim is merely a quick/cheap way to track as the rim/tire interface creates a "crown".

However, running the blade along the rim, IMHO, runs the risk of ruining your tooth set quickly should a deviation in tracking cause the teeth to traverse the rim edge. In contrast, a quality rubber tire will yield to, not "futz" with, the set of your teeth.

[lou sansone]

But, Lou, isn't that the difference in use between a crowned wheel and a flat wheel? Crowned are to run in the center, flat off the edge? Now I'm not the expert here, and look for those in the know to correct me if I'm wrong. I would also think running a blade off the edge of a crowned wheel to be pretty near impossible.
I'm remembering this from either posts here, or from reading Mark Duginske's 'The Bandsaw Handbook', (and don't own a copy to verify) but want to make sure how far off the wheel the blade runs on a flat tire. Just the tip of the blade, or to the gullett? And then if the bottom wheel is as critical or not. Right now the blade on my bottom wheel is slightly more that to the gullett, and would appear to be a pain in the tookus to adjust. :eek: Thanks again! Jim.

good point on the flat profile vs. the crown. I have to tell you that even with my italian 24" saw, that had flat faced wheels, I just did not see any difference in the stability of the cut or the having it mess with the tooth set. I can see the practice of letting the tooth hang over the edge on large blades might make sense if you had steel faced wheels like some of the very large resaws have. What is really to be gained by this practice though?

lou

[Jim Becker]

My MM16 does not have a crowned tire...it's flat. I suspect the E16 may be the same. If so, running with the teeth of the wider blades over the edge is preferable to reduce flattening of one side of the "set" when under tension.

[Bill Simmeth]

My MM16 does not have a crowned tire...it's flat.
Is it not crownable or do you just not want to do it? If it's too thin is it not replaceable?

[Jim O'Dell]

Bill, the Mini Max BS's are designed with a flat tire, as are others. Two different camps on how to build them. Neither one is wrong, but the blades do set up differently. My main questions on the blade are, 1) how much of the blade should be over the edge, and 2) should the top and bottom match. Ok 3 questions. :rolleyes: If they should match, and the overhang is at the gullet or less, how do I adjust the bottom wheel? I guess I need one of the other guys with the E16 to post. I may need to look back in the archives here, and on another forum and PM or e-mail them. Thanks! Jim.

[Jeff Fritzson]

Jim,

I am due to tune up mybandsaw and if I get to it tomorrow I can let you know as I have an E16 as well. If I do not get to i, I have the week of Thanksgiving off and will definitely get to it by then. Just in a middle of someo other issues I have to take care of.

Regards,
Jeff

[Jim Becker]

Jim, I'll try to remember to check tomorrow how much "hang over" the 1/2" band that is on my MM16 has. I don't recall if it's the full gullet or just partial. But I do know it's beyone the tooth set. I don't change the setup of the machine when I switch to my 1" carbide tipped blade from the 1/2" blade that is normally on it for utility cutting.

[Jim O'Dell]

Thanks Jeff and Jim. I'll be working on the cyclone exhaust tomorrow, so probably won't get back to the BS. It sure looks nice all cleaned up and with a blade on it though!:D Jim.

[Russ Massery]

Jim, Here's a link the Minimax website. Basically they say blades over 1/2 the teeth run over the edge. under get run in the center. http://www.minimax-usa.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=32

[Jim O'Dell]

OK, so I think I've found the problem for sure. I took the rack and pinion set up out of the machine to facilitate trying different washers for spacer depgh behind the set up. I can see where the rack is sliding against the back wall and scratching it when it is in a bind. I played with it for a while, and finally came up with a compromise. It moves fairly smooth, and hs a minimal amoungt of slop in the mechanism. The lock knob secures it well for when you are cutting, so I think it will be ok. But.....(here I go thinking again :eek: ) what would happen if I used a teflon tape strip against the wall of the bandsaw that the rack rides against? It should slip on it very well, but also let it have some "contact" with the wall to take the slop out. Any ideas? am I going overboarrd again as usual??:D

Thanks for the responses. I'm still concerned about the blade position. The bottom wheel rides almost 1/4" off the wheel for the 3/4" blade. That seems excessive. Haven't tried the 1/4" blade to see how it will ride. Upper wheel adjusts easily and I can place the blade where ever I choose. Bottom wheel shows no way to adjust. At least not easily. Thanks again! Jim.

ps: Russ, thanks for your note, on both forums!!

[Jim Becker]

Jim, my 1/2" Timberwolf AS blade that is currently mounted on the saw tracks with the teeth over the edge to depth of the gullet. If I recall, my 1" carbide blade tracks the same way, give or take.

[Jim O'Dell]

Thanks Jim! Top and bottom wheels the same?? My bottom wheel tracks past the gullet, and I think that's too far. Have a good day with the family! Jim.

[Jim Becker]

Yes, the same top and bottom, Jim. And I was in the shop almost all day!! :D :D :D (More about that in a "thread to come"...)

[Jim O'Dell]

Well then, I've still got some adjusting to do!! I've read through the manual (:confused: ) again, sure doesn't tell you much, huh? I need to look in the MM forum archives and see if I can find the MM16 owners manual that a user wrote. Maybe it has some more information that will help with mine.
Glad you got to spend some time in the shop! I've had 4 days straight, and wish I could call in tomorrow for another! Thanks again for the info. Jim (who can't wait until Wed. and the electricty!).