Euro Slot Mortiser Advice Needed

[Mike Palmer]

I am looking to purchase a dedicated slot mortiser and I have been looking at several European models. I am looking for some advice from current users or others that have reseached this subject. I currently have a Rojek mortiser that utilizes a router for the motor. The table moves and the mortiser is stationary. I am interested in gettting one where the table is stationary and the head moves.

I am looking at 5-6 different models. They each are similiar (ie. the table is stationary) However, some have tilting heads (Laguna, Casadei, knapp) others offer tilting tables (Griggio, Paoloni) and some are fixed (Panhans, Felder) I have several questions:

1. Does anyone have any experince with these models?
2. What is the advantage of a tilting table or tilting head?
3. Do these machine cut in both directions? (I ask because the one I have does)
4. How does a mortising bit differ from a router bit?

Attached are some pictures of the different ones I am considering. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

[Rick Lizek]

I'm confused about your comments on the Rojek. The Rojeck uses a motor not a router and runs around 3450 rpm. What do you mean by cutting in both directions? All mortisers pretty cut the same way. I've used many slot mortisers including the, Rojek, Paolini, SCMI, an older Griggio as well as converted handmills over the last 25 years. I much prefer HSS spiral 2 flute endmills to mortiser bits. Cheaper and a nicer cut. Tilting head has an advantage with larger stock. Anyone one will work fine tilting head or table with typical sized furniture parts.

[Philip Glover]

Mike,

A traveling head is better than a traveling table on this type of machine.
When morticing a large or long workpiece, a bed rail for example, that is overhanging the table, it is much easier to clamp and support the workpiece on a stationary table and move the head. In some cases, an operation with a long work piece on a moving table is not feasible. For a traveling table to work well, the machine would need to be large and heavy, like a horizontal milling machine. So, stick with the traveling head machines.

As far as brand goes I would go with Casadei. It is a traveling head, it's heavy duty, and they only make industrial/commercial type machines. Some people I know of have had trouble with parts availability with Griggio. I do not know much about Panhans - they may be good. You may want to contact SCMI about their morticer. The other machines are non starters.

The endmill type cutters have the advantage that they can plunge cut straight in, i.e. bore. The birdsmouth mortice bits can not plunge straight in, they must traverse and plunge simultaneously to cut to depth.

Regards,
Phil

[Mike Palmer]

Rick, thanks for your reply. The earlier model Rojek had two options: a motor drive head and a router head. I bought mine when they were closing out the router drive head option and were going to motors only.

The Rojek works fine for small furniture parts and the high speed router with an upcut spiral bit cuts very clean. However, when building large doors, it would be nice to move the cutter head rather than to try to move the piece.

Since I have not used a motor type, I wasn't sure if the special mortise bits cut the same. Can you elaborate more on the titling head and table functionality. What are the benefits of each? TIA

[John Renzetti]

Hi Mike, I have the Felder FD250 mortiser. It's a decent machine. Weighs about 500lbs. It's probably the least expensive of those you are looking at. The Griggio and the Panhans are top notch. If you can afford them, (cost around $5 to 6K) you couldn't go wrong. I haven't seen the Casadei, but it looks like my FD250. I think Erik Reibling in NY brings in the Casadei. The Laguna model shown doesn't look like the Knapp from Austria. The Knapp has a couple of collet options instead of the standard chuck.
The tilting option is great if you are doing things like louvered doors. I know a shop in FL that uses a FD250 Felder to produce louvered doors on a daily basis.
I've used a variety of bits in my machine, spirals, an end mill, a plunge cutter from Clico in England. The favorite are the bird's mouth bits. These give the smoothest cut. They don't plunge deep. You use a ramping motion. They are quick enough for me.
I added a VFD to my machine which gives me speed control from 500-4500rpm.
All your choices are good. Get the best one for your production and budget.
take care,
John

[Mike Palmer]

John, thanks for the info. Question, did you add the VFD to get more speed or to slow down the motor. What is the advantage of adjusting the speed? TIA

[Mike Palmer]

Rick, one other question I have is if the motor units cut in both directions, what is the purpose of a forward/reverse switch to change the motor direction? I have seen tis option on a few of the machines. TIA

[Rick Lizek]

Multi spindle slot mortisers have gear driven spindles so every other spindle is reversed in direction. Commercial mortise bits will run in either direction. Onsrud has the best selection. Endmills have more options in sizes I find.
Lower speeds are good for drilling. I often use it as a doweling machine or as a horizontal drill. When drilling a 2" hole you want to go a lot slower than 3,500 rpm. With the VFD you can double the speed which could be handy at times. Some of the mortisers have an option of a drill space setting bar with indentations every 32 mm for doweling.

You need center cutting endmills to plunge.

The Paolini and another brand are made by the same company. I suspect the Casadei and Felder have the same background. Anyone of the machines will do a fine job. For the most part any moving table or head will suffice for furniture. A moving head is good for really oversized stuff.

The best mortiser I ever used was a converted handmill. It was a collet type unit and it required very little modification to use as a slot mortiser. An old handmill, even if it too sloppy for machine work, is tighter than a new mortiser. Sometimes you can get them for scrap iron prices.

Slot mortisers go back to at least the 50's. Can't understand why they aren't more popular.

[Mike Palmer]

Rick, Phillip & John, Thanks for all your input.

Of the machine you guys have used over the years is there anything about any one machine you've liked more than others. (For example: the stops, smoothness, accuracy, doweling features etc..)

I agree with Rick, these machines are ofter overlooked in the US market. They are a big time saver. Floating tenons, IMO, are the only way to go. thanks again.

[John Renzetti]

hi Mike, I have only used the Felder but have seem some of the others. I think the Felder is probably the smallest of the bunch. Also see if you can find an older heavy iron machine. Allan Turner has an old cast iron Griggio in his shop. Something like this could be less than a new machine.
Reversing is for cutters that only cut either right or left handed. The birds mouth bits will and the others I've used will cut in both directions.
I installed the VFD myself. The idea was to fine tune the speed to the size of the cutter. Most of these cutters are designed to run in the 2000-6000rpm range.
My machine came with a square chisel attachment. Works well and the slow speeds I get with the VFD really helped fine tune the cut. The thing is I found that I could get just as quick a square mortise by cutting the oval mortise and then squaring it off with a Japanese cornering chisel. Also gave me a chance to use hand tools which I like also.
If you plan on making any type of louvered door get one with the tilting head. I don't think Felder offers this anymore. Pretty sure the Knapp and possibly a couple others offer this.
For doing a lot of mortises, these things can't be beat. I built a bench that had 52 mortises and they were cut very quickly and very accurately in a matter of minutes. If you only have a few to do, it's probably much quicker by hand or with a router and jig.
If you have any more questions let me know.
take care,
John