Make a skew chisel?

[Dave C. Brown]

I'm feeling poor and having just watched Alan Lacer's skew chisel videos, I'm thinking, hey, maybe I could make one and save some money. His cost $159 at Craft Supplies USA. Ouch.

I'm thinking, buy some tool steel, grind the skew end, grind the tang freehand, make a handle, and you're done. (Wait, you have to somehow attach the handle. Details...)

But I look at www.McMaster.com and there is a huge variety of tool steel. I thought the HSS steel in most of the tools was M2, but that's stuffs expensive in the raw, so I wouldn't be saving any money, and it doesn't come in very many sizes. What would I buy if I was going to make a tool? Any place cheaper?

Just FYI, Alan Lacer recommends a skew that is at least 1 1/4" wide and 1/4-5/16" thick.

Kudos to the first person to talk me out of this idea.

--Dave

[Lars Thomas]

Dave, you've come to the wrong place if you are looking to be talked out of a tool making endeavor.:) I don't see why you couldn't do this (but it might not actually save you any money.) Usually a skew doesn't have to be very long. . . do you have any old pieces of steel lying around? How about an old chisel?

[Curt Fuller]

I've wondered if you could convert some of the old wood chisels you find at yard sales, antique shows, "the bay" etc

Grind them to a skew edge and make a longer handle. Anyone know why not? They're probably some pretty good quality steel.

[David Klug]

Dave you could definitely make one out of tool steel but you would want to temper it. I used to make cold chisels when I had a forge on the farm.

DK

[Dario Octaviano]

The 8pc HSS set from HarborFreight comes with a skew that is about 1" x 1/4"...it is hard to beat that.

BTW, the set is about $35.00 last I checked though I bought mine about $25.00 about 2 years ago. The tools are still working great!

[Jonathon Spafford]

I know that you can use old files... many many people use them for making knives so they are a good steel. I know someone who made a scraper from a file. You'd have to get the teeth off on a face grinder (izzat what its called). Once you are down to bare metal you want to temper the steel, because the steel is way to hard as is. You can use a stove top, a toaster oven or a kitchen oven. You'll have to be careful though. The color you want to see is sort of a straw color. I think maybe 350 in the oven for twenty-thirty minutes, but I am not sure. Check it often and make sure that you temper it evenly. After tempering, grind an edge on it, but make sure you quench often or you'll lose the hardness and have to re-harden the whole thing by heating and then quenching in oil and you don't want to have to do that.

[Philip Duffy]

The key to a great skew, in my experience, is thickness of the tool steel. Width is a nice variable but relatively unimportant in the scheme of all things. Thickness gives you stability which minimizes vibration. M2 or one of the new tool steels in 3/8 by 1 1/4 would be just about a dream. I have a piece of scrap about that thickness and by 1in wide that is incredible. I just rounded the end with a grinder, stick welded a tang and put on a very ugly handle. It is a dream to use.

[Terry Quiram]

I went through this very scenario last week with a man that runs an industrial grinding company. He has given me a lot of old, no use to anyone else steel to make scrapers. I asked him if he could order some 3/8 x 5/8 so I could make a Lacer knockoff. We looked at the McMaster Carr catalog and the blank that would satisfactorily make a good skew cost more than just buying the skew. He suggested contacting a knife maker for a piece of steel. I want at least Rc 60. I will keep looking.

Terry

[Dave C. Brown]

Terry,

Thanks for the confirmation. I thought I must be looking at the wrong kind of steel. I'm thinking about just buying this one, as it's the right size:

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=43174&cat=1,330,43164,43173

The 1 1/4" one, that is.

Anyone know about Henry Taylor tools?

But I'll keep thinking about it. For now, I'll keep practicing with my oval skew.

--Dave

[Robert E Lee]

Dave, you might check with Pennstate on their Benjamin’s best. I have a couple of their bowl gouges and scrapers and they have been working very well.
Bob

[Terry Quiram]

Dave

Henry Taylor is a very good quality tool. Get the Lacer style, it just feels right when you are using it.

Terry

[Trevor Walsh]

I like the file idea, or buy some W1 flat stock from McMaster. It's the same steel composition pretty much when compared to old files/chisels. HSS is really overkill in my opinion. It's main advantage is that it stays hard at several hundred degrees, where a normal tool steel would be tempered soft. If you need that in wood turning you've already burnt up your stuff.

And from what cutting and carving tools I've make and used I think w1 or any other simple high carbon steel creates a finer cutting tool.

[Tom Sherman]

David I have heard of people using leaf springs to make skew chisels. Never done it my self but it might be worth a try.

[Bernie Weishapl]

I like the file idea, or buy some W1 flat stock from McMaster. It's the same steel composition pretty much when compared to old files/chisels. HSS is really overkill in my opinion. It's main advantage is that it stays hard at several hundred degrees, where a normal tool steel would be tempered soft. If you need that in wood turning you've already burnt up your stuff.

And from what cutting and carving tools I've make and used I think w1 or any other simple high carbon steel creates a finer cutting tool.

I definitely would not use a file to make a turning tool. If you have a catch it can shatter on you. I saw this first hand when a turner in town here made a skew from a file and 26 stitches later he agreed it was a bad choice.

[Ken Whitney]

On the other end of the size scale, Bob Hamilton shows a 3/16th inch skew in one of his videos made out of key stock. I made a copy, and it works fine.

[Vince Welch]

Terry,

Thanks for the confirmation. I thought I must be looking at the wrong kind of steel. I'm thinking about just buying this one, as it's the right size:

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=43174&cat=1,330,43164,43173

The 1 1/4" one, that is.

Anyone know about Henry Taylor tools?

But I'll keep thinking about it. For now, I'll keep practicing with my oval skew.


--Dave
Hi Dave,
The inexpensive steel really does not hold an edge long especially when it comes to using a skew. Henry Taylor tools are great!!! Top Notch! Also check out Doug Thompson! He has Skews and either make the handle or or check out the Aluninum handles on that guy who offers the great sandpaper's website for $25.00! (I can't say his name) Then you are set!
Thanks, Vince

[David Walser]

... HSS is really overkill in my opinion. It's main advantage is that it stays hard at several hundred degrees, where a normal tool steel would be tempered soft. If you need that in wood turning you've already burnt up your stuff.

And from what cutting and carving tools I've make and used I think w1 or any other simple high carbon steel creates a finer cutting tool.

Not long ago, virtually all the best turning tools were made out of high carbon tool steel. When I first started turning in 2003, on turning forums such as this one, it was common to debate whether HSS was better than high carbon steel. The argument was that the edge on HSS tools might last longer, but it couldn't be gotten as sharp. Many old timers kept their favorite high carbon tool ready for making the the final finishing cut -- relegating their HSS tools to roughing out work.

However, I don't recall seeing this debate for several years now. Why? HSS has proved to be simply better by any measure than high carbon steel for turning tools. Not only does a HSS edge last longer (3x - 5x longer), you can get it just as sharp as its high carbon counterpart. (Since HSS is more abrasion resistant than high carbon steel, it took turners a while to learn how to sharpen HSS tools properly. Under magnification, it can be seen that properly sharpened HSS tools and high carbon tools are equally sharp.)

In addition, the bane of a turner is the need to frequently resharpen. So most of us try to get that task done as quickly as possible so we can get back to turning. Enter the high speed grinder. When I started woodworking, I was taught to never take a fine bench chisel to the high speed grinder (unless the edge was so damaged it needed significant reshaping). Instead, sharpening a chisel involved spending 5 - 10 minutes working the chisel on a succession of bench stones until it could be used to shave the hairs off your arm. For turners, the high-speed grinder is the sharpening tool of choice. For many turners, sharpening begins and ends with the high-speed grinder. It's almost impossible to ruin a HSS tool on a high-speed dry grinder. That's not the case with high carbon tools -- it takes a light touch and frequent dips into the water bucket to avoid drawing the temper from a high carbon tool.

So, compared to high carbon tools, HSS wins on two of the three counts -- the edge lasts longer, they can be sharpened on a high-speed grinder without burning the edge and ruining the tool, and they're the equal of high carbon tools in sharpness.

Today, the debate (and it's not much of a debate) is whether the newer steels are worth the extra cost -- the edges made with these steels last 2x - 10x longer than HSS and, properly sharpened, are just as sharp as HSS tools. The only real question (in my mind) is whether or not you can actually reap the benefit of the exotic steels greater edge holding durability. Most of us know that the edge starts to dull as soon as it meets the wood. After a few minutes of turning, the tool might still be cutting "fine", but it's not as sharp as it was a moment or two before. As a consequence, most of us touch up our tools just before taking that proverbial final cut. So, let's suppose before taking that final cut your HSS tool was sharp enough to have kept cutting "okay" for another 5 minutes or so, but an exotic steel tool would have kept cutting okay for another 15 minutes. You only save a trip to the sharpener if you wouldn't have "touched up" the edge at the grinder before making the final cut with the exotic steel tool but you would have with the HSS tool. Like I said, it's not much of a debate. Most seem to believe that the exotic steel tools have edges that last longer -- which means more time turning and less time at the grinder. To my mind, the only legitimate argument is that you might be able to afford three HSS tools for the price of two of the exotic steel tools. Would you rather have three tools or two longer lasting tools (not better in terms of cutting, but in terms of durability of the edge)? I think each turner has to answer that question for himself or herself.

Here's what I've learned from this history. Can you do quality work with high carbon steel tools? Of course you can. These were the standard for decades. You'll just spend more time sharpening than you otherwise would. You won't find any major tool house making high carbon steel turning tools today. The reason is the turning community has rejected high carbon steel in favor of HSS and the exotic steels. If you want to make your own tools, high carbon steel is a perfectly valid option if you don't have access to the more durable steels or don't have the ability to work these steels (which requires much higher temperatures).

[Leo Van Der Loo]

I'm feeling poor and having just watched Alan Lacer's skew chisel videos, I'm thinking, hey, maybe I could make one and save some money. His cost $159 at Craft Supplies USA. Ouch.

I'm thinking, buy some tool steel, grind the skew end, grind the tang freehand, make a handle, and you're done. (Wait, you have to somehow attach the handle. Details...)

But I look at www.McMaster.com and there is a huge variety of tool steel. I thought the HSS steel in most of the tools was M2, but that's stuffs expensive in the raw, so I wouldn't be saving any money, and it doesn't come in very many sizes. What would I buy if I was going to make a tool? Any place cheaper?


Just FYI, Alan Lacer recommends a skew that is at least 1 1/4" wide and 1/4-5/16" thick.

Kudos to the first person to talk me out of this idea.

--Dave

Here's some good steel 6 inches long, 1 inch wide, and 3/8 thick, steel cutting cobalt steel, price about $23.--, you add a handle and sharpen it, and you are all set, good luck.

You can get thinner if you want, though not wider I think.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INSRAR2&PMAKA=317-9808&PMPXNO=19503218

Oh I would not bother making one, I would just buy one ;)

[Roger Chandler]

Files are a terrible idea! Some do it, but it is dangerous!

Why not take an old scraper, and just grind the skew end? It would be about half the cost of the Lacer one you spoke of, and you can get a scraper at WC for about $60.00.

[Neil Strong]

Files are a terrible idea!

+1, unless you are highly experienced with metallurgy and with accurate tempering, in which case you wouldn't be needing to gather info about that here.

+1 to re-purposing a HSS scraper if you have a spare one or can buy one at a reasonable price. Secondhand is a good option... good steel stays good!

HTs are good gear and that looks like a good price.

A Thompson 1&1/4" would outlast you... tough steel!

Here in Australia the P&N 1&1/4" is another v good tool.

If you can't come at any of the above because you are a bit poor just for now there will probably be someone who can lend you one until you save your pennies or have a birthday...:D

.

[Harlan Coverdale]

A Thompson 1&1/4" would outlast you... tough steel!

Came here to say exactly this. I've been very happy with mine, and it was quite a bit less expensive than the Lacer skew.

[Alan Zenreich]

I like my Thompson 1.25" skew.

Keep in mind, when looking for a handle for it... none of the commercial handles will fit the "out of the box" skew. Two edges of the tang need to be ground down a bit so it will fit into a 5/8" round hole. Not a big deal at all, just don't be surprised when you get the skew.

After the quick grinding tweak, mine fits into a Oneway Thread-lok adapter at the end of a nice padauk handle I turned. Nice little setup.

[Bob Espy]

I have the 1 1/4" Thompson skew. It's GREAT. Well worth the $90.00 and does a fantastic job. Make your own handle and you're all set.;)

[Dennis Ford]

For scraping tools, M2 steel is a minimum and as you have found it is very expensive. For homemade tools, I use O1 steel. It is a carbon steel and will not hold an edge as long as M2 but the difference is not a big problem for a skew. O1 steel is not very expensive and is easy to work with until it is hardened. It will take a very keen edge.

[Jim King]

No toy stores here for turners so I made mine out of a large wood rasp.

[Trevor Walsh]

Bernie, I didn't mean grind and use a file as is, there certainly isn't enough temper in it to cope with the stresses of turning. I imagined that annealing and heat treating all over again was understood, after all it's mentioned above my threads in relation to using file steel.

[Trevor Walsh]

David,
I think the HSS v. simple steel debate is cyclical, we're set in our sides. What my point was for Dave is, using re-purposed simple steel or inexpensive new simple steels is a no brainer. Considering his objective of a cheap (cost) skew. Not getting 5xs the life out of his turning tools, ironic because almost half of the replies to this thread endorse expensive alternatives, and hardly address his desire to MAKE the skew himself.

Hundreds of dollars in HSS turning tools is great if you're producing and selling at shows etc. The time saved in less sharpenings may offset their initial cost. If you are beginning, or doing this as a hobby, the cost of HSS doesn't do much for you, and is prohibitively expensive.

Now it might be argued that sharpening less often results in more practice turning, something someone new would like to do. However turning now, with less expensive tools is preferable to waiting for the money to buy expensive tools, no?

[Thom Sturgill]

Packard Tools Skew is hard to beat http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=packard&Category_Code=tools-pkrd-resc
I believe they are made by the same company that makes Lacer's.

[Jake Helmboldt]

Well David, should you decide to buy and not fabricate then I would look at the following:

Our friend from down under mentioned P&N as a good brand and others have said the same - they can be bought from Lee Valley and their 1 1/8 skew is ~$64.

Thompson is a little more but probably worth the extra. Both require making your own handle, but that is an easy project, fun and good practice.

I recently bought a Crown 1 1/4" of ebay for a song. I buy and sell a little on ebay and a lot of stuff seems to be going cheaply these days.

The Crown can be bought at Highland for ~$70. The steel isn't as good as the Thompson (nor probably the P&N), but the price is pretty good and I have been pleased with mine. I put a radiused edge on it and the extra mass is really nice. I'm sold on a big skew for some jobs.

The Packard looks identical to the Crown and is basically the same price. They are known for having good quality at reasonable prices. I don't know where the Packard is made, but the others are all non-Chinese, which is simply my personal preference.

[David E Keller]

Another thought... You might consider eBay for old skews or tools steel blanks. The skew is one of those tools that a lot of people abandon before really getting the hang of it, so I'd expect to see some for sale on the Bay.

[Josh Bowman]

Another thought... You might consider eBay for old skews or tools steel blanks. The skew is one of those tools that a lot of people abandon before really getting the hang of it, so I'd expect to see some for sale on the Bay.
+1 on buying used. Don't get hung up on name brands, steel types etc. Get started have fun and upgrade as you can afford it. Some of the most amazing work I've seen were done with CHEAP Harbor Frieght tools. The tools help, but it's about the skill.

[Nigel Tracy]

Why couldn't one make a big honkin skew out of this 1 1/2" scraper? If there's no reason why not then it seems a good deal at $29:

http://www.pennstateind.com/store/LX130.html

[Andrew Raymond]

Any thoughts on using a shock absorber rod for a skew....

[David DeCristoforo]

I might as well chip in my two cents worth here. I have made a lot of plane irons and several chisels as well as some knives and turning tools and I have always used O1 steel. The reasons are simple. It's cheap. It's very "forgiving" when it comes to heat treating. It's easy to work when it's in an annealed state using tools commonly found in the average small or home shop (belt sanders, bench grinders, files etc.)

This is not, by any means, a "high tech" steel but you are unlikely to have the necessary equipment or know how to properly heat treat those steels anyway. O1 is totally fine for woodworking tools. It takes a good edge and holds it well. I have been very casual about heat treating my O1 tools. I heat the end up to cherry red with a hand held torch. Then a five second quench in motor oil and a "cool down" quench in water. The steel gets plenty hard and I usually leave it like that. I typically only heat the steel until the end 1/4" is cherry red so the rest of the steel stays fairly soft. This has worked out very well for me even though it would probably make a "proper" metalworker blanch!

I have tried making tools out of other tools, file steel, spring steel, etc but none of them have worked out as well as the O1. Problem is, you never know exactly what kind of steel you have. When you buy a chunk of O1, you know what you got.