Thought I would be the first

[James O'Mara]

Okay I was always a lurker at the pond as I know I don't know enough to contribute much. However I couldn't resist the urge to be the first to post in a new forum. What is laser woodworking, is it something like woodburning? Help a neophyte out and tell me what this is all about.

Jimmy

[Keith Outten]

James,

Lasers burn wood in a simular fashion as you would with an old woodburning tool. The difference is that todays lasers are computer controlled, don't require you to learn any programing and lasers can cut wood and plastics.

Think of all the scroll saw patterns that you will never have the time to create because they are too time consuming, you know the ones I mean...they have a thousand holes to drill and thread the saw blade. Less sofisticated patterns are what most of us woodworkers select because we just will never have the time to finish the really cool projects with lots of detail.

As an example, I purchased a Fish pattern that has over 600 holes to cut, scanned it and we worked the design in Corel Draw to convert all of the lines that needed to be cut to vector lines. It take only 45 minutes to cut the fish, and now I can give them to friends and family. I can make them while watching television.

I can also make custom router bases and very slick jigs and fixtures for my shop. Since I can cut to within +- 0.004" I can make many of the really nice fixtures you see in magazines but never buy. I can also create one of a kind patterns for projects and throw them away when finished. Zero clearence plates for table saws, drill guides, router patterns, etc.

You can also engrave all of the cool stuff like graphics and photos in your projects but it is the machining capability that will provide the most benefit to your shop.

[James O'Mara]

I assume that this is something that is way beyond the means of the average hobbyist. So does it leave burns like a wood burner wood or is there a clean line. If the line is clean I could see where many of the tools we use today would become obsolete in the near future. Are there any websites that I could see and learn more about this? It all sounds very futuristic yet exciting.

Thanks,
Jimmy

[Ken Salisbury]

Originally posted by James O'Mara
I assume that this is something that is way beyond the means of the average hobbyist. So does it leave burns like a wood burner wood or is there a clean line. If the line is clean I could see where many of the tools we use today would become obsolete in the near future. Are there any websites that I could see and learn more about this? It all sounds very futuristic yet exciting.

Thanks,
Jimmy

An example of some small wooden logo medallions I had laser engraved for imbedding in my work rather than wood burning or writing a name on projects like bowl bottoms etc.
<p align="center">
<IMG src="http://www.klsal.com/logosale.jpg">

[James O'Mara]

After seeing your example I now realize that this is not something that is going to replace the tablesaw to cut a straight line anytime in the near future. Thank you both.

Jimmy

[Ken Salisbury]

Another example
Here is a pine chest with design and name laser engraved on it.
<p align="center">
<IMG src="http://www.klsal.com/chest.jpg">

[Howard Rosenberg]

you order for your pens.
The script goes up the LENGTH of the pen, could script run ACROSS the cylinder?
Does it use regular computer typefaces and fonts?
Is one necessarily confined to English letters?
Can the negative space be done quite broadly and then a matching-sized letter be engraved and the pressed into the hole AND THEN be turned?
Lots of questions, I know but this really has me going.
Thank you.
Howard

[Ken Salisbury]

Originally posted by Howard Rosenberg
you order for your pens.
The script goes up the LENGTH of the pen, could script run ACROSS the cylinder?
Does it use regular computer typefaces and fonts?
Is one necessarily confined to English letters?
Can the negative space be done quite broadly and then a matching-sized letter be engraved and the pressed into the hole AND THEN be turned?
Lots of questions, I know but this really has me going.
Thank you.
Howard
Howard,
1. The text or object can be oriented in any direction even on an angle.
2. Any font you can generate on a computer can be programmed to the laser.
3. "Can the negative space be done quite broadly and then a matching-sized letter be engraved and the pressed into the hole AND THEN be turned?"I am not sure what you mean by that.
4. You can engrave just about anything you want -- logos, initials, graphics, etc. Primarily the laser input is from some Graphics program re: Corel Draw, Photo Draw, etc, etc. So what ever you can imagine can be lasered on an object - even photgraphs.

Now - what else do you want to know???

[Howard Rosenberg]

Thank you for your answer, Ken.
What I meant was: can you use the Laser to inlay? Sort of like a router and inlay templates.
Use the Laser to create a hollow (shapes, letters etc.) and then create a matching object to fit the recess?
The idea would be to then turn the inlaid wood, metal etc.
Thanks, Ken.
Howard

[Aaron Koehl]

Howard,

Inlay can be achieved with the laser with woods
up to 3/8" thick. Any shape can be cut out-- pretty
ornate. My favorite is cutting out typefaces. Also,
many many other materials can be cut out-- acrylic
can be slightly thicker than 3/8".

- Aaron

[Ken Salisbury]

Sure you could do that.

[Ian MacDonald]

How wide is the kerf cut by the laser? Does it depend on the material you're cutting? What kind of laser is used? How powerful is it? (i.e., Watts)

Just idly curious,

-- Ian

[Aaron Koehl]

The kerf is widely dependant on the material. Depending on
the speed and power settings (and some hand waving),
cut pieces will usually fit back together very snug.

Any error due to kerf can be tweaked out of a graphic, but
99% of the time, kerf isn't an issue.

Our laser is a 35-watt, CO2 laser.

_Aaron_

[Ian MacDonald]

For thicker materials, what is the quality of cut surface? Does it remain perpendicular to the material's top surface? Can your engraver cut at angle such as you see in some marquetry to allow for a more snug fit? Perhaps that's not an issue when you can cut two pieces to such a close tolerance.

Regards,

-- Ian

[Aaron Koehl]

When cutting maximum-thickness wood (> 3/8"), the cut may not
be perfectly perpendicular, depending on the wood. By using less
power, a very slight angling effect can be achieved, so that wood
on the angled side will not be burned, and the inlay will fit together better.

When inlaying two different color woods, it is a nice trick to
scale the 'male' drawing up proportional to the (almost non-existant) kerf,
thus getting a perfect fit. I plan on trying out this theory very soon--I'll post pictures when I do!

Otherwise, the laser is limited to a single plane of cut.
(Sorry, no dovetails on the laser--only box joints!)

_Aaron_

[Ken Frantz]

I am interested in setting up the same kind of "tool" to use a router instead a laser setup.

Are there any among us that do this kind of hobby.

I should have ask first if this would be the right fourm for this to be brought up in??? If so, I would like to hear from others on this subject.

RUSTYNAIL

[Bob Lemon]

Ken check out this site http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAD_CAM_EDM_DRO/messages/

[Ken Frantz]

BOB:

I am a member (more of of lurker) of that group and I would say that most of them are into metal working instead of woodworking. Their tolerances are a lot closer than woodworking, so most of the stuff they are into is not what interest me even though I would love to do metal work since my major in college was in mechanical technology, but before the age of computer controled machines (early 60's)

Just an thought----Learning to use a slide rule was one of the most important courses that was required to take!!!!! I still have mine, but have forgotten more than I ever knew about the thing. There were a few calculator at that time, but the professors would make the comment."what would you do out in the 'field' if your batteries went down!!!!!!' So that was the reason to learn to use one. I think the course was deleted from the requirement in the early 70's.

I have seen several articles on woodworking that I have gleaned from that site. But I was just wondering how many members of this fourm are doing woodwork using this method in flat work and turning?

Sorry about the rambling!!!!

RUSTYNAIL

[Keith Outten]

Ken,

I have been interested in CNC routers for a long time. Check out the ShopBot machine. There are a lot of web sites that deal with ShopBots and at least one online forum that is in Virginia Beach I think.

In time I hope to add a ShopBot to my laser engraver, this would be an unbeatable package.

If you order the free ShopBot CD there is a video clip included of a ShopBot that drives two routers over a very large lathe bed. Turning wood will never be the same :)

[Derek Arita]

So what does the machine look like and how much are we talking? I would think it would be very expensive. Sounds like an amazing machine.

[Keith Outten]

Derek,

Shopbot CNC routers are in the 5 to 7 thousand dollar range I think, you would have to visit their web site for current pricing as I don't have any connection with their company.

I have been interested in their equipment for a long time, a 4 foot by 8 foot bed makes for a very attractive platform and lots of capability. Provided you have the shop space to house a machine that large.

[Aaron Koehl]

Forgot to mention, we also have a special attachment
that allows us to rotate cylindrical objects while engraving,
such as wine bottles, large dowels, etc., so that a pattern
can wrap all the way around.

_Aaron_

[Mike Maikowski]

Good question and good answers. But the only thing missing is where does a person purchase one and also how much is the cost. can you give me (us) any links so I can read more on this. thanks, mike822:confused:

[Keith Outten]

THe ShopBot CNC router system web site is at

http://www.shopbottools.com

There are several models avaialble the 4' by 8' is just under 6 thousand dollars and the table is about 15 hundred.

Visit their web site for details and some nice pictures of what the machine will do.

[Dave Hammelef]

Originally posted by Mike822
Good question and good answers. But the only thing missing is where does a person purchase one and also how much is the cost. can you give me (us) any links so I can read more on this. thanks, mike822:confused:

I think the one mike is refering to is your laser. They cost about 25K and I dont remember the company name but I am sure Keith or Aaron will let you know.

Dave

[Keith Outten]

Mike,

Sorry if we got OT but I thought you were inquiring about the CNC router.

There are several manufacturers of laser engravers that are suitable for woodworking. Epilog Laser and Universal Laser are two of the most widely known, there are more and a search at Google will provide a very long list. Epilog has been a vendor at a lot of woodworking shows and have been trying to open the woodworking market for some time.

I believe that Dale Sherman has spent a lot of time researching Universal lasers and I hope he will pitch in and post his comments.

Lasers start at around $13,000.00 for the desktop models and go up higher than any space shuttle has ever been. Price is based on the wattage of the power supply, the size of the cabinet and how many other accessories are selected. Some of the more common accessories and features are rotary attachments, auto focus, air assist and vector tables.

I intend to go into detail later concerning all of the accessories I purchased with my machine. I will post pictures of each attachment and try to explain what it does and what it doesn't do.

Note that I didn't include any links to the web sites of manufacturers. The truth is I really don't want to unfluence anyone concerning which is better as I really can't say since I have only used one brand.