Smithy v. Shopsmith?

[Phil Gwinn]

Hi everyone, I am Phil and I am new. Just bought a 20 x 30 steel building (workshop) with an attached three bedroom house and two car garage. I have been seriously looking at the Smithy Supershop and the Shopsmith. I was wondering if anyone had experience with either or both? Hopefully after we close and move in I will be able to contribute more substantially.

[Steve Rowe]

Phil - Welcome to the Creek. I had a Shopsmith Mark V for about 24 years. Like many, it was my first woodworking tool.

It served me well during that period but frankly has its limitations and while it is a 5 in one tool, it doesn't do a great job at any of the functions. The absolute worst of all the tools is the tablesaw. The drill press is marginally acceptable because the table flexes too much. The disc sander horizontal boring machine functions are acceptable. The lathe is OK but I hated the toolrest and the lack of a quill on the tailstock end.

If you are looking to buy one go for used and not new. The new ones are priced so high you could outfit your shop with pretty reasonable quality stand alone tools for the same or less money than a Shopsmith. With the shop size you have, it doesn't sound like space is an issue. Several years ago, I sold my Shopsmith in good shape for $650 so you should be able to pick one up in that ballpark.

Steve

[Jim Becker]

Phil, welcome to the 'Creek. It's a great community to hang out in!

I agree with Steve...if you do decide to go with a ShopSmith combo machine, buy used. There are plenty of them out there for considerably less money than new. Beware of "off brands", however...you want "real" ShopSmith. I've never known anyone that's owned the Smithy, although I've seen ads from time to time in those ad mailers that come from the post office.

Personally, I favor good quality separate tools that you acquire as you need them for your work. The exception being Euro combos which are generally very high quality and high functionality. But also quite expensive...

[Jake Helmboldt]

I can't speak from experience, but when I got into woodworking a couple years ago I was intrigued by the Shopsmith since I have a small workspace. But then once you compare the features to full-size machines it just seems like a compromise in every respect.

The tablesaw looks totally inadequate (and I've heard some say it is downright scary with any wood of moderate size), the jointer is puny, etc. I think the horizontal boring setup and lathe might be the only reasonably good tools (compared to stand-alone machines). It just seems to be a major compromise, but that is my 2 cents.

Jake

[George Summers]

Like Steve, I had one for many years and within it's limitations it produced some nice items (I used mine out of a 10" square metal storage shed so I was truly space-challanged). Yep, the sanding function and the horizontal borer are the nicest features but unlike Steve, I loved the drill press function. Variable speed on the fly, table adjusted to any angle easily and I never experienced table flex. Lathe is good for standard spindle turning, Any big, off-balance bowl blanks will throw it for a loop. And, get the real thing not a knock off like Smithy. And, yep, get it used.

George

[Sam Chambers]

Phil:

Welcome to the Creek!

I had a Shopsmith, and like many others, it's how I got started in the hobby. I think Steve's analysis is correct. The Shopsmith is a jack of all trades, but master of none. I would recommend it only if you're really short on shop space (and it doesn't sound like you are), and you're working on small projects. It's expensive - if purchased new - and there are very few accessories made by anyone other than Shopsmith.

I got my Shopsmith setup (Mark V model 510, jointer, bandsaw, belt sander, lathe duplicator) from my Dad, and completed a few projects on it. I sold it and got enough to buy a refurbished Delta contractor's saw, a new Powermatic 6" jointer, a scratch & dent Jet 14" band saw, and a new Grizzly drill press. I definitely prefer dedicated machines.

The Shopsmith is a well-made machine with serious limitations. Mine wouldn't stay in alignment, no matter what I tried. So, every time I made a change to the setup - even just to change the blade height on the table saw - I had to adjust the alignment. That was more frustration than I wanted to deal with, given my limited shop time.

It's possible to turn out good work on a Shopsmith, but I wouldn't try building larger projects with one.

[Phil Gwinn]

Thanks everyone for the warm welcome. All the tools I own are low end and benchtop tools since I never had more than a single car garage space.

I spent 22 years in the Marines and there was no way to lug around a workshop full of tools. So, now that I am retired I intend to make up for lost time. Hence the not-joke about buying a shop with a house attached :D

I am basically a well read rookie. Got lots of magazines and books. And I am reasonably handy with a scrollsaw and my little craftsman bandsaw. I was looking at the Shopsmith as it bills itself to be precision engineered. And I still like the idea of portability and as a gadget junkie I love the idea of multifunction.

Smithy advertises itself to be a heavier duty machine tool quality update of the Shopsmith concept. It also costs less. I don't know where my niche in woodworking is yet. I like small keepsake projects, toys, and scrollsawing. I'd really like to learn how to turn on a lathe (did that in HS about 25 years ago) and make pens.

Guess I will be bugging y'all with questions as we go along.

Thanks again for the welcome!

[Steven Wilson]

My father had a Shopsmith and I use to use it when I was younger. It's a poorly designed, dangerous machine that should be in a junkyard and nowhere else. It almost killed me when I was a young man and put me off from woodworking for 20 years. After watching Norm I was convinced that woodworking didn't need to have the pucker factor afforded by the POS Shopsmith so I took the plunge and have safely enjoyed the hobby ever since. I now use a European combination machine and their is no comparison between the death trap called a Shopsmith and a properly engineered, safe, and enjoyable combination machine.

[Ed Blough]

Hi everyone, I am Phil and I am new. Just bought a 20 x 30 steel building (workshop) with an attached three bedroom house and two car garage. I have been seriously looking at the Smithy Supershop and the Shopsmith. I was wondering if anyone had experience with either or both? Hopefully after we close and move in I will be able to contribute more substantially.

The only reason to buy a Shopsmith is to conserve space and from the size of your workshop you do not need to do that.

As far as being unsafe or any of the other things Shopsmith is accused of is simply not true. It is as safe or unsafe as the operator of the machine.

I have one and I really like the things I can do on it. I'm forever building something, shapeing something, fixing something with it. I don't use a jointer, bandsaw, lathe, drill press, disk sander, horizontal boring machine, grinder enough to justify buying standalone.

Oh I could buy them and fuss with them and all that goes with owning the various machines but what is the point? I can usually do what I want on the Shopsmith.

I agree it is far more impressive to fill the workshop wall to wall with machines, but I was always taught to only buy what I really needed. Would I like to have a 20 inch jointer? Sure but what is the point of spending that much money just to have something that 90 percent of the time you only joint 1 or 2 inch wide boards on?

If space is tight consider the Shopsmith if it is not consider buying separate machines, but buy wisely don't buy something that is fantastic to have and brag about but you only use 5% of it's capabilities 90% of the time.

[Mike Heidrick]

So as far as I know no one has ever died with a shopsmith so Steven Wilson calling one a deathtrap is pretty humorous to me.

I bought a Delta right tilt arbor saw, PC 7518, and Shopsmith with power stand for one money a couple of years ago. I would not give up my table saw at all but I love the Shopsmith for a few special reasons. I use it about 90 percent of the time as a sanding station or drill press. I have the 20" scrollsaw and 12" sanding disc running on it and it sits very nicely under my wood rack. It is great. I also own the 6"X48" belt sander and it is great as well on the power station. I also use it as a drill press as all I have is a small Montgomery Ward benchtop stand alone drill press right now. The SS Drill Press works great and its table and fence are very large and adjustable for a drill press.

I never gave the SS table saw a chance on it as I did not need to with the Delta. Looks kinda different when setup as a table saw. I think I will stick to the stand alone table.

As to the flexing of the table, not sure what you were doing to flex it with the drill press setup but that seems very extreme to me.

I would definatly try one out yourself and see if you like it. Get it used definately and look locally as people on ebay spend big $$ on them for some reason. A Mark V just sold here last month for $200 with all the pieces. Do not get a clone of the SS.

I do like using the lathe but what I use it for is pretty basic.

I think it is a great tool if you get the right deal on one!

[Gary Swart]

I had a ShopSmith and hated it. Even after I got power stands for the bandsaw, jointer, belt sander, and strip sander it just wasn't what I could work with comfortably. The table saw is a tilt table, not arbor and that really is a PITA. Not only that, it's a direct drive. You have to remember to slow the motor down before you shut if off. I'd suggest you get a Grizzly catalog and get some good machines.

[David Rose]

My jointer does way more face cutting than it does edging. I constantly wish for a wider jointer than a 6". Right now I could use a 12". That would be a more rare use though. If the wear marks on my old jointer tables tell any stories, it is that it was used for many years at around 5 1/2" much more than at 1 or 2".

I don't own any "bragging tools". Most of mine are older and lower end, with a couple of exceptions in fixtures and hand tools. All my power tools get a lot of use with almost every project. And I have a fairly full garage.

David



I agree it is far more impressive to fill the workshop wall to wall with machines, but I was always taught to only buy what I really needed. Would I like to have a 20 inch jointer? Sure but what is the point of spending that much money just to have something that 90 percent of the time you only joint 1 or 2 inch wide boards on?

If space is tight consider the Shopsmith if it is not consider buying separate machines, but buy wisely don't buy something that is fantastic to have and brag about but you only use 5% of it's capabilities 90% of the time.

[john lawson]

Phil:

You have already received a lot of good advice, so I wont belabor most of the points already touched on. Here are a couple of things to think about.

First, don't buy a new Smithy or Shopsmith. The older model Smithy that was made in the U.S. is reported to be an excellent machine, but they are rare. The Taiwanese copy is too heavy and not as well made. If you do decide to buy either a Smithy or TotalShop (another clone) dont pay more than $500 and that should get you both the basic machine and a jointer or bandsaw. The older Shopsmiths are very good machines. For a 10 year old Shopsmith you should get one for less than a $1000. If you go for a Shopsmith 10ER (which I have), those go for around $200, give or take $100, and they are a very good basic machine. They are better than the Shosmith Mark V as a drill press, sander and lathe; not quite as good as a tablesaw.

I own a very expensive European Combo machine and it acts as my main woodworking machine; tablesaw, jointer/planer, shaper, moritsing machine. Last week I made two sets of bunk beds on commission out of hard maple. I used my old Shopsmith constantly as a drill press, lathe, and horizontal boring machine. It worked great. In each case it was as good or better than anyhing else I had available that would have cost more money.

If you are space constrained the Shopsmith is a viable alternative to expensive stand alone machines, but don't pay even close to retail price for one.

good luck

john lawson

ps If you have any questions or need pictures contact me by PM I will be glad to provide details.

[Ray Moser]

I've had a Mark V for about 10 or 12 years. It is ok
if you have limited spaceand as stated the saw is the worst of the 5 tools. When I realized the cost of the accessory tools I bought stand alones (band saw, planer, scroll saw and jointer). If I ever get a workshop with more room I'll buy a real table saw but still keep the Shopsmith for a lathe, horizontal drill and disk sander. I would stay away from the Shopsmith look alikes-there have been several that have come and gone and left their owners with no place for repair parts. SS at least appears that it will remain around. I don't understand the comment about remembering to slow the unit down before shutting it off. I have never done that. You do need to have the unit running however, to change speeds.

[skip coyne]

do a goggle search for shopsmith user groups , there is a yahoo group Ive belonged to for a few years .

I don't think I'm allowed to link here but goggle will get you there .

I have owned two ER10's Ive built some decent stuff, Cradle when my son was born , 16' sailboat etc.

I sill own a 10er also have a 10 table saw and radial arm saw and a GRS (you might want to drop down and read the Eurkazone forum here and consider the ez smart as option )

paid 165 for my first er10 back in '78 sold it when we moved in 83 (for a profit )

bought the second er10 about 3 years ago for $65.00

no way would I put 3k in one

I was thinking the other day of selling it but I think ill keep it for the drill press

[CPeter James]

I don't know where you are located, but here in New Hampshire, there are at any given time time a dozen or so ShopSmiths for sale. We have a local (New England) classified paper that also does internet and there is always Craig's List. Prices range from $200 and up.

If money is the issue, look around for used tools. I have a shop full of top of the line stuff that I picked up here and there. I try not to pay more that 40% of new cost for a tool in top condition and one that needs a little work even less. Most woodworking tools have few moving parts and bearings and belts are inexpensive.

CPeter

[Rennie Heuer]

I'll jump in and echo much of what has been said. I owned a SS for over 25 years, first real WW tool I owned. It made sense for me because my shop was in a basment (converted coal bin actually) of a very old house with 7' ceilings and a total work area of about 8 x 12. It was OK for small projects, though I see many people turning out some very nice work on a SS, but it does not do any one thing very well. As soon as I had the room I went for stationary machines.

If you do wind up with the SS let me give one word of caution. PLAN. Because you need to set up each tool for use you can't 'forget' to do something and just go back an make a quick cut or drill one more hole. Plan every step to minimize your set up time. Also, repeatability can be a real issue as there are no scales for ripping, and the table tipping can be a bear to get right. Forget about a bevel on the end of a long board.

You have to ask yourself why there are so many used ones around for sale. I have two theories. 1. People who want to move on to higher levels of WW grow out of them, 2. Lots of people attend the demonstrations, have visions of furnishing their entire home in a few weekends, and take them home only to become frustrated.

Sorry, I don't mean to sound bitter. I loved my SS and made lots of things with it. I just wanted more accuracy and less time 'compensating' and setting up.

Last word - promise - buy used. Many are hardly out of the box condition. Be patient, look around.

[Paul Canaris]

I am not sure what your budget is, but if I understand your need, I would look for a used Robland X-31 or possibly something in a Minimax or Rojek entry level unit. These are all serviceable combination units.

[Dave Lehnert]

I had a ShopSmith and hated it. Even after I got power stands for the bandsaw, jointer, belt sander, and strip sander it just wasn't what I could work with comfortably. The table saw is a tilt table, not arbor and that really is a PITA. Not only that, it's a direct drive. You have to remember to slow the motor down before you shut if off. I'd suggest you get a Grizzly catalog and get some good machines.
The Shopsmith is not a direct drive. You can open the cover and see that. As far as slowing the motor down before you turn it off. That is just a safety issue SS recommends so you don’t stop the SS in table saw mode and switch to the bandsaw and forget to turn down the speed. Has nothing to do with the tool.

I owned my Shopsmith since 1989 and like it a lot. The drill press is the best IMHO. It’s made for woodworking. Not Metalworking like a regular drill press that most use today.

People will ALWAYS make the comment “they can’t be any good because so many are for sale” If you get to know the Shopsmith you will see a lot of them built years ago like in the 60’s. They are built like tanks and so easy to replace any parts that my go wrong that one never does go bad to the point of unusable.

[Dick Brown]

We had a SS at the school shop where I taught. Tried to trade it on other tools and couldn't find even a used tool store that would take it. Don't mean to imply that it isn't a good unit but sure didn't work for us as to much time spent changing for each kid's diffrent needs. Just be aware if you buy one and then go to stand-alone tools, you may find it hard to get rid of.
Dick

[Phil Gwinn]

Wow. Amazingly enough y'all have actually clarified my thinking. The shop that I will have is going to be multipurpose. Woodworking, automotive, metalworking/welding etc. My first big project is actually a stone outdoor kitchen. So part of that floorspace will keep BBQ building tools handy.

I thought alot about the comments by Mr. Blough, "I have one and I really like the things I can do on it. I'm forever building something, shapeing something, fixing something with it. I don't use a jointer, bandsaw, lathe, drill press, disk sander, horizontal boring machine, grinder enough to justify buying standalone."

I really am relating to that. I guess if I get into specified woodworking enough then I'd go for the dedicated machines. But, it sounds like a weekend crafter and part time DIYer might benefit. Thanks again guys, this place is great.

[Steve Rowe]

As to the flexing of the table, not sure what you were doing to flex it with the drill press setup but that seems very extreme to me.


I have noted several responses regarding the flexing of the table and I probably need to clarify. The table flexing I observed was when using a hollow chisel mortiser attachment. The flexing was so severe that the mortise wouldn't even cut perpendicular to the face. I determined that the use of the hollow chisel mortise attachment was hopeless on that machine. I did not notice flexing when using soley as a drill press.

The Mark V that I had was circa 1980 (:rolleyes: I've always wanted to use that term on something that I actually bought new) and later models had what appears to be an improved table and fence system. The newer table design may or may not have the same problem.
Steve

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I have tried to frame a reply and decided to say only this:

I wouldn't have one if it came for free.

[Dave Falkenstein]

With a 20X30 building, why even consider Shopsmith or Smithy? Treat yourself to individual tools as your budget allows.

[Erik C. Hammarlund]

I just dont' think it makes sense.

Well, it makes sense if it's cheap. Which is to say:

IF the price of the shopsmith for the tools you will use is less than the price of comparable separates, AND

IF you don't mind switching between uses, AND

IF you will never want to use multiple machines at the same time (which is not at all uncommon. If you rip strips on the TS you might joint between each one. You might be working on the lathe and also want to use a tool for some unrelated prject. For me, this is a huge deal. I'm slow, I like to work on different things, and I would be frustrated if I could not leave a machine setup and do something else)

THEN a Shopsmith might be for you.

The Euro machines are popular because (for the combos) they are really not that expensive, and they combine a lot of tool power into minimal space. I'm not sure the shopsmith is a good idea.

It really all depends on price. When I spent a whopping 2 minutes on boston craigslist, I found
a 12" delta BS (http://boston.craigslist.org/sob/tls/231575935.html) for $175
a 400 lb Blount wood lathe (http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/tls/228989828.html) for $150
a Ryobi 6" benchtop jointer (http://boston.craigslist.org/bmw/tls/231566744.html) for $100, or a much heavier duty jointer (http://boston.craigslist.org/nos/tls/231666387.html) for $225
various table saws, including this one (http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/tls/231490305.html) for $50, and this heavy dity 12" RAS (http://boston.craigslist.org/nwb/tls/231343777.html) for $100
and a floor drill press (http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/tls/225017359.html) for $50

If you bought ALL of the above items--and chose all of the more expensive, nicer, options I listed--your total cost would be $700.

And if you look JUST at the lathe and jointer, for example, you'd be hard pressed to argue they're not a lot nicer than the SS.

So... would I buy a SS?

Probably. For $300.
But once you're much over that it's a foolish move, iv you've got the space for separates.

[Don Henthorn Smithville, TX]

and like to putter a lot (and I mean a lot) the Shopsmith can serve your needs. But if you want to get some work done then get separate machines. I used my Shopsmith as a horizontal borer and a sanding station. It works great for those two tasks. Otherwise a floor model drill press beats the Shopsmith in every way as far as accuracy and correct drilling speeds. The table saw is dangerous no matter what others my say. The disk sander is almost always too fast for harder woods. The lathe is too light for many tuning tasks and as has been mentioned there is no quill at the tailstock where it is needed. I know the advertising makes it seem interesting, but for most people who really want to work wood, it will become frustrating very quickly. You will find that often after you have changed from one tool to another that you need to return to a previous set up for just a little correction and that will be a major task. A few will like the tool, but for most they will soon want to change to separate tools.

[CPeter James]

I don't know about you, but I am not orgainized enough to do all of one operation and then convert the machine to do the next and so on. In addition, I usually screw up at least one piece and have to go back and make a replacement. I could not even work with the Euro combos because of this. My failing, but I admit it. Besides, when I rip something, I then joint it on an 76" long jointer to try and get it straight and the rip the width plus 1/32" and then joint it again. Just my work methods.

CPeter

[James Crickmay]

Phil
I am looking for a Smithy supershop wood Lathe and came across your comments, you have a european Combo machine can you tell me the maker and where you got it from do you have a photo.

Thanks James

[Ronald Blue]

I am obviously in the minority here since I own two model 510 Shopsmiths. They were both bought used. I leave one setup as a tablesaw and do most other functions on the other. I also have the pro planer and powerstand with a bandsaw on it. Some of the posters are correct that it can be inconvenient switching from one operation to another. The variable speed is great though. Definitely buy used. They aren't anymore dangerous then any other tool. Someday I will upgrade to a cabinet saw. I don't see a need to rush to do that. I do not have the shopsmith jointer. I have an old craftsman which has to go soon. Is it for everyone? Certainly not as you can guess from the previous postings. It's capable if you are patient. As others have said there have been some nice pieces created with one. Check craigslist or ebay and any other possible local shoppers. They have been in business for a long time and all parts are available from them for the newer 500 series.

[Jack Lemley]

I am obviously in the minority here since I own two model 510 Shopsmiths. They were both bought used. I leave one setup as a tablesaw and do most other functions on the other. I also have the pro planer and powerstand with a bandsaw on it. Some of the posters are correct that it can be inconvenient switching from one operation to another. The variable speed is great though. Definitely buy used. They aren't anymore dangerous then any other tool. Someday I will upgrade to a cabinet saw. I don't see a need to rush to do that. I do not have the shopsmith jointer. I have an old craftsman which has to go soon. Is it for everyone? Certainly not as you can guess from the previous postings. It's capable if you are patient. As others have said there have been some nice pieces created with one. Check craigslist or ebay and any other possible local shoppers. They have been in business for a long time and all parts are available from them for the newer 500 series.

Ronald,

+1 member of minority. I bought my Shopsmith Mark V in 1984, upgraded it to the 510, then the 520 and last year I upgraded the headstock to the PowerPro (all upgrades to the original unit). I have built everything from doodads to Cabinet/home enterainments centers measuring 2 feet deep, 7 feet tall and 8 feet long. I built all my home cabinets when I built my home 25 years ago. In addition to the Mark V PowerPro I have a Festool TS55 saw, vac combo that I break down sheet goods with (yes, I used to break down sheet goods on my Mark V till about 5 years ago but when I turned 50 I started looking for easier ways to handle sheet goods. As to dangerous, someone said earlier it is no more dangerous or safe than any other tool on the market with the possible exception of the Sawstop). I t has been rare over the years that setp up changes cost me any time (usually when my planning broke down or I messed up a furniture part and had to remake it). The PowerPro rocks! infinitely variable speeds up to 10,000 rpms. Quiet and smooth running. Same torque through all the speeds (the older models sacrificed torque as the speed increased). The PowerPro upgrade is the same motor and controller "Nova DVR lathe which sells for $2,000 plus). The fact that there are used ones for sale says nothing negative about the SS. The fact that there are 10ERs from the 50's still chugging along says everything! So, quality individual tools are great (if you buy quality your individual tools will knock down some serious change). My shop is 16x24. I have an Incra router table, Kreg assembly bench, SS powerstation w/bandsaw, Festool saw/vac, assembly/sheet goods breakdown table with fold up legs, Delt dust collector, mobile cabinet w/Rigid oss on it and a Makita 10in slider on shop built cabinet on rollers. There is now way I could sacrifice the floor space to get a table sa, lathe, drill press, horizontal borer, well you get the point. So if your shop is 40x40 and you have the green by all means go quality individual tools.

My 2 cents.

Jack

[Mike Heidrick]

I own a shopsmith Mark V and teh accessory stand. I have a 6X48 belt sander on the accessory stand and mostly use the the Mark V in drill press mode. I have made a few thousand dollars drilling aluminum for cnc machines with the shop smith. Variable speed, moveable table with gret spots on it to clamp parts, and horizontal drilling make it excellent. That sander is awesome for metal as well. Will I trade any stationary tools for a shopsmith - not many - but I am not giving up my shopsmith (until I buy a knee mill). I also have the big scroll saw from shopsmith and it is nice enough for me.

I do need a Mark V table for mine though.

[Gary Kman]

.... Just bought a 20 x 30 steel building (workshop) with an attached three bedroom house .....

Am I the only one that caught the important part of the original posters thread? Sheeeesh!

Phil, with an attitude like yours - Shopsmith, Smithy, axe, whatever - you'll get 'er done.

[Michael Mayo]

Well I don't know where to start given the varied repsonses? I decided about two years ago to get into woodoworking. I have always wanted to get into woodworking and I have always been a huge DIYer so it made sense to take up the hobby/passion. I found a used Shopsmith Mark VII which was only made for several years in the early 60's. They are once again making a Mark VII but it is based off of the current Mark V they just gave it the ability to tilt up in both directions which is what the originals claim to fame was. Shopsmith has a very long history and you would do well to research it's upbringing. The company has changed hands many times but the current ownership has been at the helm for quite a while now and is based on previous employees who resurrected it from bankruptcy.

I bought that Mark VII for $300 and it came with a jointer and jigsaw SPT (special purpose tool). And then after rebuilding it which was a blast I found a 54' model Mark V on Ebay that nobody wanted because it was in very poor shape but after rebuilding the Mark VII I knew that getting this one back in shape would be easy. I totally disassembled the 54' and blasted all of the frame parts clean. Then primed and repainted them. I cleaned and polished all of the accessories etc. and put it all back together. It has the 3/4 HP motor but works very well. after replacing all of the bearings and doing all of the alignments and asjustments. That machine cost me $99 plus maybe $100 in parts. A while later I found a SS DC3300 dust collector for $30 and when I went to look at it the guy had a complete Mark V with many accessories he wanted $85 for the Mark V. I didn't need another Shopsmith but for $85 it was a no brainer to purchase it. So for $115 I got a complete Mark V and DC 3300 dust collector. So you can find the machines very cheaply if you keep your eyes open and are quick on the draw because they don't usually last long depending on your location.

Now to address the machines themselves. I have also found them to be somewhat limiting and have moved on to acquiring seperate stand along machines. I just found the Shopsmith was too much trouble to setup for different operations. The tablesaw as stated was a compete fail IMHO and although I am sure it is usable by some it was completely unusable for me. I do use the drill press quite a lot as I don't have a dedicated DP and it works quite well actually. The jointer works awesome but is limited being only 4". I have the bandsaw on a seperate SS powerstand and it is alright for some small things but it is extremely limited for woodworking in my experience. I am looking for a dedicated 14" or larger bandsaw at the moment and I will use the SS bandsaw for metal cutting as I have a speed reducer now and I will be able to slow it down enough to use for metal. The scroll saw works well but I use it very little and if it didn't come with a machine I bought I would never buy one. It is however very heavy duty for a scroll saw and i am sure it is very useful for scroll saw specific projects as it has a very deep throat. The lathe I have only played with but it seemed to work quite well and I am not sure what the guy's are saying about a quill on the tailstock end? The SS lathe has many different tail stock centers and a tailstock attachment that as an eccentric which allows you to center it up to the headstock quill. It is limited by the heavyness of the machine to hold it all down. I tried to turn a big out of round log at one time to true it up round and the whole machine wanted to jump up and down even though I found the center point of the piece of wood. I had to weigh down the whole machine to stabilize it to turn the piece round but I got it done.

In short the machine is very good at what it is designed for. That isto give people with limited space many options to work wood with. If you are space challenged and have plenty of patience then this might be a good machine for you. It gives you a lot of options and the machine is incredibly versatile and can do many things that you would not be able to do with a dedicated stand alone tool. I will agree that it can do many things but is not the master of any of those things. I know a lot of guys that have modified the machine to do some crazy stuff even some guys that have adapted the SS to machine metals. What I fond very frustrating and is ultimately the reason I have gone to stand alone machines is that the time it takes to set the machine up for differing operations was just not acceptable to me and as previously stated once you change the configuration you have to go through all kinds of alignments and adjustments that just is a deal breaker for me. Given you have a large amount of room to work with I would choose to buy stand alone tools for your needs you will be happier and spend less money ultimately in the end. If you find a SS cheap nearby then buy it it is worth every penny I spent on the 3 machines I have even given it's limitations I have been pleased with what i can accomplish with my Shopsmiths. Definitely do not bother with the clones they are not worth the money wasted on them go with the original Shopsmith or don't buy it.

[Dave Lehnert]

Considering the OP is six years old, wonder what he decided.

[Ronald Blue]

I noticed the age this morning as well. I usually catch that too. LOL Some days your the bug and some days your windshield...

[Phil Gwinn]

James, I don't have a euro combo machine. I was once in the market for a combo machine and was asking for pro and cons on the two machines. Some day, when real life isn't so pressing, I may get back on it. For now, it's all work and then a scroll saw to relax with.


Phil
I am looking for a Smithy supershop wood Lathe and came across your comments, you have a european Combo machine can you tell me the maker and where you got it from do you have a photo.

Thanks James

[Jerome Hanby]

I have noted several responses regarding the flexing of the table and I probably need to clarify. The table flexing I observed was when using a hollow chisel mortiser attachment. The flexing was so severe that the mortise wouldn't even cut perpendicular to the face. I determined that the use of the hollow chisel mortise attachment was hopeless on that machine. I did not notice flexing when using soley as a drill press.

Another thing to look for, I think it's not uncommon to lose a bolt from the table and that will allow it to flex. My wife was complaining of flex when she was drilling pen blanks and that's what I found.

While I completely agree about buying one used, I think the Shopsmith gets a lot of bad feedback that it really doesn't deserve. The things last forever! That's one big reason why prices in the used market are so low. I'm not wild about the table saw mode, but to be fair, I bought a table saw before I bought the Shopsmith and have never had a reason to use that mode. For 90+% of the cuts I make on my table saw, the SS would work just fine, but since sawing operations occur so often, it's a lot less work having a stand alone saw than it would be swapping over to table saw mode. I think the best feature of the SS is that it can replace a whole shop full of power tools for considerably less than $1000. As you gain experience and run across deals, you can replace it's functions with stand alone tools and even after you buy a jointer, lathe, drill press, table saw, and band saw, you still have the best sanding station in the world, a platform to drive all manner of shop built tools, and a great secondary tool to let you have redundant setups. For example, you could keep a dado blade mounted on it, have the bandsaw setup with a narrow blade for making curve cuts, or keep a drum sander mounted on the drill press. And, some of it's functions are all any normal wood worker will ever need. The lathe is just fine for spindle work and having the horizontal boring function is great. Most of us would never shell out our hard earned cash for a dedicated machine for that, and it works so much better than trying to jig something together with a drill press. One of the best parts is it doesn't occupy any more space that a similar capacity lathe sitting on a stand.

[Mark Burnette]

May as well weigh in since this thread has new legs...
I've had a SS (model 500) for 20-25 years and it's been a love-hate relationship. It's perfect for a tight space or a tight budget. I probably did more woodworking in my little corner of the basement on that machine than I've done since moving & setting up a "proper" shop in a 24x32 outbuilding. Just the same I couldn't wait to replace it with dedicated tools. I never had any problems with it and with sharp tools & blades it did good work--but was always a PITA trying to properly support the work (tiny table). I still have the old girl for the drill press (the mortising investment was wasted--the quill is too weak to drive a hollow chisel, IMO), 12" sanding disc and horizontal boring. There's just nothing as convenient for drilling into endgrain than the SS.

That said...now that I've finally bought a nice drill press I think it's time for the SS to go. I need room for a 6x48 belt sander :)


Old basement shop:
http://home.comcast.net/~mburnette/oldshop.jpg

[Jerome Hanby]

That said...now that I've finally bought a nice drill press I think it's time for the SS to go. I need room for a 6x48 belt sander :)


I've got a 6"x48" belt sander on my Shopsmith! One of these days I'll find a good deal on one of those strip sanders (or just build my own and power it off the SS). Add the conical sanding disk and I think I'll have all the sanding (other than a thickness sander, already collecting parts to build that one) that I'll ever need!

You know, you could pick up a belt sander SPT then cut down the rails on your SS and turn it into a dedicated sanding station. I've seen them cut down into less than half the normal length...

[Michael Mayo]

I've got a 6"x48" belt sander on my Shopsmith! One of these days I'll find a good deal on one of those strip sanders (or just build my own and power it off the SS). Add the conical sanding disk and I think I'll have all the sanding (other than a thickness sander, already collecting parts to build that one) that I'll ever need!

You know, you could pick up a belt sander SPT then cut down the rails on your SS and turn it into a dedicated sanding station. I've seen them cut down into less than half the normal length...


I have contemplated making one of my three SS's into a mini for just powering the SPT's. The 54' that I completely rebuilt from the ground up woould probably be the one I sacrifice if i do it as it has the 3/4 hp. motor and i don't want to screw up the basically stock 84' Mark V with the 1 1/8 hp. motor. The Mark VII doesn't lend itself to becoming a mini so that leaves the 54' model. I use it all the time to power the jointer already so I wouldn't lose anything by cutting it down to something smaller and i would gain valuable space. I think I may do just that this weekend as i was thinking about breaking the 54' down and storing it up in the lft of the garage anyway.

I too did not realize the OP was 6 years old what a knucklehead.

[Jerome Hanby]

I too did not realize the OP was 6 years old what a knucklehead.

You are in good company, I don't think anyone (other than the ones who mentioned it) noticed. Funny, SMC occasionally fires one of these at me. I've never caught it in time to be able to tell if it popped up as a new post for some reason of if someone responding to an old post triggered it...

[Floyd Cox]

Whole lot easier to get parts for the shopsmith.

[James Runchey]

I bought a used er10 in 1959 for $100. Best money I ever spent. My son bought a later model a few years ago, what a piece of junk. The old ER was a heavy, well built monster. I made many projects over the years. I still have it, used mainly as a drill press or the sander, since I have quite a few stationary tools. If I were in the market for one, I would choose the ER10.