Table saw blade for bridle joints?

[Jamie Buxton]

I cut tenon cheeks and bridle-joint cheeks on the table saw. The workpiece goes through the saw with the wood fibers vertical, so the blade meets them in a way which is neither ripping or cross-cutting. I generally use a combo blade, because that's generally what's in my saw, but I've tried a rip blade too. With either style of blade, it is clear that the blade is not happy. I must push the wood harder than usual, and sometimes the blade heats enough that it burns the wood -- even with hard-to-burn woods like oak. Does anybody know of a blade pattern which is better for this operation?

[glenn bradley]

I can only speak from my experience. I use an 80 tooth Freud and a backer board to avoid tearout. You kinda get a feel for the feed rate; I don't have to use much forward force at all and don't have the burning problem (although I get my fair share doing other cuts).

Don't know what your using for a jig. I'm using the tenon jig that Rockler sells, Powermatic also puts their name on it (I found that out when I opened the Rockler box and there was a Powermatic manual inside).

With the extra effort to move the material through the blade that you describe I wonder if maybe the jig isn't tracking well. That is, the wood is not being moved directly in line with the blade (?). If you're not using a jig, check whatever you're clamping to to see that it is square and runs true.

[Charles McCracken]

Jamie,

That cut is a rip cut because it is along the grain. It sounds like you need less teeth because it is a deep cut. This is the same effect as ripping very thick stock. Try a blade with 18 to 20 teeth like the LM71M010 (10" X 18 teeth FTG).

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I use an 80 tooth non ferrous metal blade. It cuts a nice square chisel shaped kerf leaving me a clean smooth corner and nice smooth tool mark free cheeks.

[Jim Becker]

What Charles said plus...consider making the full depth in several passes like you would when mortising with a router. Burying the blade in the wood that much is quite a lot to ask of the saw, even if it's got lots of power available. Yes, this is more work and takes more time, but it's a very deep cut!

[Mark Singer]

This doesn't answer your question but.....I usually make those cuts at the bandsaw

[Steve Wargo]

I second the bandsaw.

[Jamie Buxton]

This doesn't answer your question but.....I usually make those cuts at the bandsaw

Yeah, the bandsaw would do a lot of it, but not quite. Consider the female side of the bridle joint. (I am because I'm about to make an entire kitchen with bridle joints on doors and drawer fronts.) The bandsaw can cut the cheeks, but I still need to clear out the middle third of the workpiece. Got a solution for that which doesn't involve hand chiseling?

[Jamie Buxton]

Jamie,

That cut is a rip cut because it is along the grain. It sounds like you need less teeth because it is a deep cut. This is the same effect as ripping very thick stock. Try a blade with 18 to 20 teeth like the LM71M010 (10" X 18 teeth FTG).

Charles, it seems to me that the cut is like a rip only down near the table saw's table. Up near the top of the blade, the blade is cutting close to right angles to the wood fibers, which is not like a rip. I think that area is where the blade is unhappy. Here's something I've tried to see what's happening. If I make a cut and get the blade fully buried in the wood, and then tilt the top of the workpiece toward me, that briefly frees the top of the blade from cutting contact with the wood. However, it leaves the bottom of the blade in contact. I can push the wood forward more easily, until the upper part of the blade is once again cutting.

[Jim W. White]

Jamie,

I'm with Glenn on this. I tend to suspect your jig is not quite parrallel to the blade if your having these types of problems.

I say this because I make these cuts on my contractor saw (Cratsman) all the time with no burning issues, and my saw is certainly NOT running in the "ample power" mode. For the female end, I use a Freud Super Dado and knock them out in one pass, still with no issues. My feed rate on these cuts is always very slow and it is extremely important to have the peice tightly clamped to the jig (which in my case is just a homemade one which rides over the fence.

I hope you resolve this. Bridle joints are great, but I can't tell you how many times I've forgotten to adjust the female depth of the cut to account for the panel insert groove depth :mad: . I don't know why that hasn't cemented in my thick skull yet?!

Jim in Idaho

[Charles McCracken]

Charles, it seems to me that the cut is like a rip only down near the table saw's table. Up near the top of the blade, the blade is cutting close to right angles to the wood fibers, which is not like a rip. I think that area is where the blade is unhappy. Here's something I've tried to see what's happening. If I make a cut and get the blade fully buried in the wood, and then tilt the top of the workpiece toward me, that briefly frees the top of the blade from cutting contact with the wood. However, it leaves the bottom of the blade in contact. I can push the wood forward more easily, until the upper part of the blade is once again cutting.

The reason it is like a rip is that you are making large curls of wood (as opposed to small shavings that result from crosscutting) and you need large gullets to clear the curls which dictates that there be less teeth.

In the test that you performed you may have changed the cutting angle slightly but, most importantly, you effectively reduced the thickness you are cutting.

[Steve Wargo]

When I make a bridle joint I use my bandsaw with a carbide blade. The carbide blade is a bit wider than a standard skip/hook tooth bandsaw blade. Not an 1/8" thick like a table saw blade but thicker nonetheless. I place a stop block clamped to the fence and make my two cheek cuts, flipping the work piece so the cut is on the outside edge. Then just free hand the rest using the stop block for a reference. Not as fast as a stacked dado head, but it is much faster than chiseling... but I still clean up the shoulder with a chisel. Probably not what you wanted to hear, but it works for me.

[Alex Berkovsky]

Yeah, the bandsaw would do a lot of it, but not quite. Consider the female side of the bridle joint. (I am because I'm about to make an entire kitchen with bridle joints on doors and drawer fronts.) The bandsaw can cut the cheeks, but I still need to clear out the middle third of the workpiece. Got a solution for that which doesn't involve hand chiseling?
My first project (a demilune table (http://www.diynetwork.com/diy/ww_tables/article/0,2049,DIY_14446_2275128,00.html)) involved bridle joinery for the legs. I made the cuts on the BS and used a Forstner bit to drill away the bulk of the stock to remove the center section. I then chiseled little of the material left to square the end of the joint.

[Mark Singer]

Jamie,
I just remove the waste as with dovetails....chop one face ..flip chop the other....3 minutes..!

[Jamie Buxton]

Jamie,
I just remove the waste as with dovetails....chop one face ..flip chop the other....3 minutes..!

This kitchen has 112 bridle joints, in 2 1/2" wide jatoba, a dense, hard, wood. Even if I'm as quick as you, that's five hours of chopping! And I strongly suspect I'm not half that fast....:( Hence the interest in a power-tool solution.

[Doug Shepard]

This kitchen has 112 bridle joints, in 2 1/2" wide jatoba, a dense, hard, wood. ...

Yikes - jatoba! I normally use a 20-tooth Freud rip blade for the handful of bridle joints I've made. But I'm just curious if you've tried a dado set for the female portion. The tooth count on those isn't normally all that high though maybe for jatoba...?