cutting angles

[Frank Fusco]

I just watched a Norm Abrahams' New Yankee Workshop where he made a poker table with eight sides. Of course to do this he had to cut a lot of angles. His method, using a compound/miter chop saw was to set the saw at a 22 degree angle on the left, make his first cut then swing the saw to the right at 22 degrees. I would have just flipped the piece being cut over and made the second cut on the left without changing the saw. My reasoning is that if the saw is off even a tiny skootch your final result would be a mess. Norm must have great faith in the accuracy of his saw. It did work, at least on the show, which could have been edited. How would y'all do this?

[Jim Becker]

Flipping or not flipping both work, Flipping does cause any "tear out" to end up on both sides, however. Personally, I'd build a sled to cut these angles so I could insure they are crisp and complimentary...I'd never trust "my" saw to be accurate enough!

Oh...it's Abram. ;) No "s" unless an apostrophe proceeds it... :D

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I bet you are right. I bet Norm's Projects are subject to a fair bit of refining before the show is released.

[Rick Christopherson]

Any time you make a closed path, your miters need to be dead accurate. In this case with 8-pieces, the error is magnified by a factor of 16. You wouldn't normally be worried about a 1/2 degree error, but when you multiply this by 16, you suddenly have an 8 degree overall error. If the circle was solid and not just a frame, then even a 1/10 of a degree error will be noticeable.

If Norm cut these using his miter saw, and changed the setting between each cut, I can guarantee that they didn't fit without error, because no miter saw is that precise.

I am making another one of my expanding round tables where my miters will be 30-inches wide across 8 pieces. Before I make any cuts, I first calibrate the miter angle. Since this is done on the tablesaw, I flip the pieces to make the second angle.

If I was doing this on the miter saw, I would first calibrate the left-hand cut and cut all the pieces, then calibrate the right-hand cut and cut the pieces to final length.

[Jim Becker]

I bet you are right. I bet Norm's Projects are subject to a fair bit of refining before the show is released.

He does two of each...the protoype where he works out the kinks and the one that is filmed for the show. And you can watch the whole thing via the web-cam if you have the patience and time...

[Frank Fusco]

Thanks, Rick explained it well. If I do something like that, I'll be a 'flipper'.
BTW, using his miter saw, he crossed his hands to hold the wood and his hand was only about three inches from the blade. I know he has done a whole lot of woodworking in his life and still has all his fingers, but that procedure bothered me.
And, I'll forgoe the 's'. :)

[Ralph Barhorst]

I am going to pick a nit here.

I think that Norm's technique is the best way. The goal is to get the pieces to align at exactly 45 degrees. Half of 45 is 22-1/2 degrees. I doubt that he set the saw at 22. It was probably set at 22-1/2 degrees. But even if it was set at 22 degrees, one end of the board would be cut at 22 degrees and the other end would have been cut at 23 degrees, getting the total of 45 degrees. The slight difference would not easily be noticed on the single joint but the total of eight joints would be accurate.

Flipping the board and cutting both ends on the left side would give a total of 44 degrees for the joint which would produce a noticable error when all eight joints are assembled.

Using Norm's technique allows good joints even if the saws alignment is not perfect.

[Jim Becker]

Ralph has an important point...no matter how you cut it, the two angles need to be complimentary to end up with the goal. This is one of the reasons I like to use a sled for mitering opposing joints...even if the jig is slightly off, as long as the total angle is correct, you get a good, tight joint.

[Frank Fusco]

I am going to pick a nit here.

I think that Norm's technique is the best way. The goal is to get the pieces to align at exactly 45 degrees. Half of 45 is 22-1/2 degrees. I doubt that he set the saw at 22. It was probably set at 22-1/2 degrees. But even if it was set at 22 degrees, one end of the board would be cut at 22 degrees and the other end would have been cut at 23 degrees, getting the total of 45 degrees. The slight difference would not easily be noticed on the single joint but the total of eight joints would be accurate.

Flipping the board and cutting both ends on the left side would give a total of 44 degrees for the joint which would produce a noticable error when all eight joints are assembled.

Using Norm's technique allows good joints even if the saws alignment is not perfect.

On other cuts he did mention 22 1/2 degrees. But the miter was 22. I thought that strange. Even I know that 2+2 doesn't equal 5. Or 22+22 doesn't equal 45.
I guess your qualifying of "noticable" error makes your way a good method.

[David Rose]

If Norm used soft enough wood, maybe he "crushed out" the error with his clamps. Something's got to show somewhere if the angle is barely off otherwise.

David

[Stan Krupowies]

And you can watch the whole thing via the web-cam if you have the patience and time...

Jim, what is the URL for the web-cam of Norm's show?

[Jim Becker]

Jim, what is the URL for the web-cam of Norm's show?
http://www.newyankee.com/yankeecam.php

It looks like they may be shooting today and Thursday based on the schedule...click on the image and it will pop up a new window that refreshes every 60 seconds...

[Frank Fusco]

If Norm used soft enough wood, maybe he "crushed out" the error with his clamps. Something's got to show somewhere if the angle is barely off otherwise.

David

No, the pieces in question were molding that he glued in place around the table.