Torsion Table David Marks Designed Pics 'O Plenty

[Scott Vigder]

With seriously old, unlevel floors in the shop and a landlord who won't be smoothing them anytime soon it was time to build a nice flat work table. Off to HD for two 1/2" and one 3/4" MDF sheets and a few nice, straight 2x4's. Total expense around $52.

First I leveled the sawhorses

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Following David's instructions, I jointed and planed the 2x4's and placed the 3/4" MDF sheet on them as a work surface. Using homemeade winding sticks it took about 20 minutes to shim the board flat.

Then I squared, glued and brad nailed two corners. I started the interior slats using spacers to perfectly align each row.

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Being extra careful to make sure the spacers were properly set, I built the second row.

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The remaining rows went quickly. The last row is a little tricky as you need to see if the last row of slats need to be trimmed to compensate for minor variations introduced along the way.

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My slats needed to be trimmed about 3/32", which was real close to what David's needed to be trimmed in his show (!).

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***** Continued *****

[Scott Vigder]

Once the slats were trimmed, the interior was finished.

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The top face board of 1/2" MDF is then placed on top, and a reference line is drawn to guide where the brads will be nailed.

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With generous amounts of glue applied, the top board is placed then nailed. Putty fills in the nail holes later on.

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After flush trimming the MDF, it's time to sand! Of course, this entire process is repeated for the bottm face.

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Using some not-so-great- ash boards lying around, I fashioned the end trim pieces. I glued the long pieces on first...

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***** continued *****

[Scott Vigder]

Then glue on the long trim boards. These stretched my 50" Bessey's to their maximum!

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Now for some nice BLO all over.

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And the final table top, complete with 4 coats of Briwax.

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The legs will be 3/4" plywood, three sides so I can store stuff like the compressor underneath.

[Jim Becker]

Nice job, Scott.

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BTW, I merged your threads. There is no need to post three separate threads...you can reply to your own thread to add additional picture posts. The limit is five pictures per post and you can post as many times as you like in the same thread.

[Tom Andersen]

Scott,

you've done beautiful work on this table. Thanks for sharing. I have three questions:

Don't you think that your slats and edges could have been made thinner, yet preserving appropriate stiffness? I tried to make a torsion box once but it came out surprisingly heavy, so I scrapped it before completion. What is the weight of your table? Can one person lift it?

You have sanded the MDF table top. Will the sanding remove the surface resin layer? Obviously, you have re-protected it with Boiled Linseed Oil, so I guess that may be the answer?

How did you ensure that the table is flat, and how flat did it finally get to be?

Sorry for the direct questions, but, as mentioned above, I have in mind to make one too.

Fine work you have done!

Tom

[Al Willits]

If I remember right, Marks table was 3/4" top and bottom with 1/2" slats inside, going by Marks version it does become heavy and although it can be moved by one, two makes it easier.

If weight is a concern, maybe knock a foot off the table's width or length?
Not to sure I'd make it any thinner, I'm willing to bet Mark's table is a bit over built, but not sure how much.

Nice table Scott, I use mine all the time, coated mine with Turpentine and Tung oil and the about 5 or 6 coats of Johnson's & Johnson's wax.

I use a flat blades putty scraper to take spilled glue off, and with the coating of wax, works very nice.

5% picture limit?...musta missed Mr. Fry's post....:D :D

Al

[joseph j shields]

Tom,

Where in Sweden are you???

I used to work for ABB and traveled to Goteborg 6-8 times a year.

If I was bad, I would have to go to beautiful Vasteras :-)

-jj

ps I'm right now enjoying a little licorice Catch snus :-)

[Scott Vigder]

Don't you think that your slats and edges could have been made thinner, yet preserving appropriate stiffness? I tried to make a torsion box once but it came out surprisingly heavy, so I scrapped it before completion. What is the weight of your table? Can one person lift it?

You have sanded the MDF table top. Will the sanding remove the surface resin layer? Obviously, you have re-protected it with Boiled Linseed Oil, so I guess that may be the answer?

How did you ensure that the table is flat, and how flat did it finally get to be?

Tom
Yes, the slats could probably be thinner, but you could get warpage or twisting of slat pieces if they are significantly smaller. The table top weighs a lot. I can turn it over by myself, but I have to be careful because I waxed the bejeebies out of the work surface to keep the glue from sticking. I believe David did use 3/4" MDF for his table top, but I really thought that was overkill, and it adds 50% of the tops' weight (top and bottom) to the table. Yes again, the surface is protected by the BLO.
The table is as flat as my eyeballs can guage with the winding sticks. I guess it would be interesting now to build a new torsion table using this one as a base work surface. According to my T-square and Empire level, it's pretty darn flat.

[Mike Hill]

Scott: Something I have wanted to do for awhile, but space is a problem here. Looks like you could park a truck on that table. Very strong construction. Congratulations on a great job.
Mike

[Mike Spanbauer]

Nicely done Scott. One question, how big is your table? Looks like 5x4 or so?

mike

[Tom Andersen]

Tom,

Where in Sweden are you???

I used to work for ABB and traveled to Goteborg 6-8 times a year.

If I was bad, I would have to go to beautiful Vasteras :-)

-jj

ps I'm right now enjoying a little licorice Catch snus :-)

I am in Smaaland well south of Vasteras. Sweden is LONG country with midnight Sun in the north (right now getting pretty dark up there) and rain in the south. Sweden has a low population density which I find to be big asset. Maybe I am asocial;)

[John Piwaron]

This very project is on my to do list for this winter. Heck, not only is it on the list, I have the materials for it.

How heavy would you say yours is in total? I'm asking 'cause I'm likely to have to hoist this bad boy around by myself.

[Matt Meiser]

That looks familiar. Yours looks just like his.

[Al Willits]

""""""""""
How heavy would you say yours is in total? I'm asking 'cause I'm likely to have to hoist this bad boy around by myself.
"""""""""

Making it out of 3/4" does make it heavy, but I found with D handles on each end I can drag it around if needed, I also can get it back on my table by leaning it up against the table and using the D handles, pull it on to the table.
The table I put it on is carpeted so it slides on fairly easy.

I'm thinking I might have made a slightly smaller table and it would have worked for what I need, maybe a foot off the longer lenght.
This thing is strong enough that I can stand on it, and I'm not a small person, 1/2" might indeed work, but I think over building here is better than under building and having it warp.

Al

[Scott Vigder]

Thanks for all the nice comments.

The table started out as a 4x5, but it comes in closer to 44 x 56. Ooops.

I'd guess it weighs around 90-100 lbs. It could be lightened by skipping the hardwood trim. I suppose you could reconfigure the alignment and eliminate a row or two of slats inside, but that compromises the long-term stability of the flat surface. I really like the D handle idea.

I should clarify I used the 3/4" MDF only for the 4 sides that are now covered by the ash.

I also had an eye on the futere, so that if the top becomes seriously gouged or otherwise mangled I can flip it over and use the other side.

Last night I finished a 3-sided plywood base that the table will sit on. Table + base will give me a 38" working height, ideal for my 6'1" frame. I am still contemplating how I will attach the base to the top! :rolleyes:

[Laurie Brown]

This may be a dumb question, but as a newbie I'm wondering what exactly IS a torsion box table, and why do you need one?

[Al Willits]

Sent ya a web site to check, hope it helps.

Al

[Paul Chinetti]

If you want to post that website that would be awesome. I am looking at building one and I am trying to learn as much about them as I can.

[Grant Davis]

Shweeeeeeet looking torsion box Scott. You have inspired me to get started and make a trip to HD myself.

[Eric Gustafson]

I am about to build a box like this, but am going to use an interior door blankfrom HD, 36"x80.(`$23) I am going to laminate it either mdf or ply to boths sides and mount a pair of those folding table legs from Harbor Freight to the bottom. It will be smalller, but big enough for my needs and lighter too.

I have used door blanks in the past when I built model airplane wings because the door blank is a torsion box, factory made.

[Bob Wingard]

I too saw Marks' episode where he made this table, and I wondered then, as I do now if it wouldn't be easier/quicker/stronger if the inside pieces were all made with interlocking half-lap joints ?? You could clamp all the long and then the short pieces together, and gang-cut the half-laps with a dado set. Seems like it might add a bit to the rigidity to have each internal component one piece instead of all those little ones ?? Clamps could be used at some of the intersections, keeping things flat, and it would be less critical to pre-level the bottom sheet of MDF.

Any comments ??

[ryan smythe]

http://thewoodwhisperer.com/?p=196

This is a video tutorial on how to build one.

[Jim O'Dell]

Ryan beat me to Marc's podcasts on line. I actually watched both segments at work this afternoon. Had to start and top a lot, but very easy to follow, and IIRC, he gives credit to David Marks as who he patterned his after. One thing he did different than Scott did, is he screwed a piece of masonite to the top, flush trimmed it, then trimmed the 4 edges with hardwood. This way he can change out the top if it gets damaged.
I'm contemplating building my multistation tops as a torsion box. The will be narrow (13") but 10 feet long. Will have to segment the top and bottom layers, alternating which end the 8' length sections are, but I should be doable. The two 5' wide torsion style doors I made for the shop have 2 sections per side. They have held up well. Bob, I did do the slats as long lengths with half laps on these doors. Somehow my execution of cutting them didn't come out perfect, but they worked just fine.
And Laurie, it's all about strength, stability, and the lowest weight possible, given the importance of the first 2 items. It is stronger and lighter than a solid wood piece the same dimensions. Interior hollow doors are the best example we have as was mentioned above. Cardboard material boxes are made from is another. The interior parts glued tight to the skins helps keep the twisting/bending effect down to a minimum. Same is true for I-beam or H-beam construction. materials perpendicular to each other adds strength. Airplane wings are also built on the same principal, though slightly different execution.
Oh, and Marc is a member here at SMC. Obviously a busy guy, so we don't see him real often. Jim.

[Al Willits]

Here's David Marks Torision table.

http://www.diynetwork.com/diy/shows_wwk/episode/0,2046,DIY_14350_26946,00.html

Least I hope it is...:)

Al

[Greg Funk]

I too saw Marks' episode where he made this table, and I wondered then, as I do now if it wouldn't be easier/quicker/stronger if the inside pieces were all made with interlocking half-lap joints ?? You could clamp all the long and then the short pieces together, and gang-cut the half-laps with a dado set. Seems like it might add a bit to the rigidity to have each internal component one piece instead of all those little ones ?? Clamps could be used at some of the intersections, keeping things flat, and it would be less critical to pre-level the bottom sheet of MDF.

Any comments ??
I made a bunch of torsion box shelves recently using pre-finished 3/8" plywood for the outer skins as well as the internal structure. I ripped 2" wide strips from the plywood for the inner grid and cut dados halfway through every 6" or so. Then they just snap together. I stapled the inner grid strips with an upholstry stapler. It's very quick and easy to do and results in a rigid internal frame.

Once I had the frame stapled together I glued on the outer skins and piled on as many sheets of plywood as I had plus a few other heavy object lying around the shop. I didn't staple the skins.

The resulting torsion boxes (about 3' x 7') where very stiff with only a slight deflection with my son and me standing in the middle of the box. And it is quite light. Making the inner core out of thicker material doesn't add any strength.

I think it's still important to start with a flat base.

Greg

[Al Willits]

"""""""""
I too saw Marks' episode where he made this table, and I wondered then, as I do now if it wouldn't be easier/quicker/stronger if the inside pieces were all made with interlocking half-lap joints ??
"""""""""

I asked David that at a seminar and if I remember right, he said he built it with separate pieces because he felt it was easier that way considering the TV audience, or something close to that.
Memory fades a bit at times, but I was left with the idea that to do it with interlocking pieces would work fine, but care would be needed when cutting to get the proper fit.

Also, since completing and then tung oiling the top, then waxing, I've quit using wax on it, seems when I run a heavy piece arcross the top, it scraps the wax off and I get to remove it from the project.

Although I now use a kraft paper to cover the top and that would stop the wax removal.

More of that learning curve again....:)

Al

[Scott Vigder]

Al - I tried the paper too. I have some masochistic streak as I like reapplying the wax occasionally, plus I really like the smell of the Briwax.

Jim - I thought of a removable top, but I decided when both top and bottom become unusable I'll be ready to build an new torsion table.

Everyone - I have a lot of shop space, and a heavier table is good for the older uneven flooring that dominates the space. The table has held up very well, and I only need to re-wax it every three to four weeks.

It was fun to build, and let me tell you, a real challenge to remember to take pictures for my fellow Creekers along the way!

[John Crum]

Scott, that is a really nice job. Coincidentally, Fine Woodworking site has a video running right now on exactly that same subject and it looks like they used the same procedures pretty much. They did, however, use 1/2" mdf for the top & bottom. Again, nice job and thanks for sharing.