24" Jointer Setup

[Rob Will]

I am setting up a 24" jointer and would like to know your thoughts on ckecking the tables for flat and true. I have a Starrett 48" straight edge, feeler gauges, and various other measuring devices. If need be, it is possible to install shim stock to true the tables.

Anybody have any good tips for jointer setup?

TIA,
Rob

[Al Willits]

Try this.


http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=39513

Should be a link to a video that I found as a novice, excellent.

Al

[Bill Simmeth]

Should be a link to a video that I found as a novice, excellent.
And if you had come to ArnFest earlier this month, you'd have seen Bob Vaughn tune a jointer close-up and all personal-like. (www.arnfest.org (http://www.arnfest.org)).

[Jim Becker]

Sorry Rob...there is no way you are setting up a 24" jointer. There are NO pictures... ;) (drool....)

[Rob Will]

OK guys, here is a pic of the jointer.
I suppose what I am really asking about is how to check the tables for parallel. Each table top can be individually moved back and forth from the cutterhead independent from the wedge bed. There is a place where shim stock can be inserted to level each table.

If my straight edge is only 4' long, how can I measure the height of the outer ends of the table? The infeed table alone is 4'.

BTW: Setting up the blades is easy, it only takes a minute to loosen the 64 jib screws.;)

Thanks,
Rob

[Daniel Simon]

Signature line was edited to remove a direct link -- TOS Violation
Ken Salisbury

Man do you suck! :)

[Bill Simmeth]

Rob, nice jointer. Get John White's book, Care and Repair of Shop Machines. He has a nice tutorial on how to make a Master Bar out of MDF that is adjustable and as accurate as any machinist's straight-edge. You can make it virtually as long as you want. He's the shop manager at FWW, so he might have an article on it posted on their website...

[Reg Mitchell]

Hi Rob....seems like you have been bitten by a very unusual bug. It leaves it victom virtually helpless to collect heavy ARN and decorate their shop makeing nice wooden trinkets.....:eek:
Very nice score. Yes I think you would have been a good addition to this past Arn Fest.
They do have long, not real cheep, and very heavy stright edges that riggers use to set up machines. Might be an option, but what Bill Simmith said too.
Let us know how you get it level and get the table para....para.....;) stright
Reg

[martyphee]

What I did with my porter 16" (I had to repour babbitts though).

I leveled the outfeed and then adjusted it to .001 below the head. I was using a 52" straightedge from Lee Valley rated at .003". After that I adjusted the infeed to the outfeed by laying the straightedge half and half across them and using a feeler gauge and halogen light. After this it was able to produce dead flat boards.

If your straight edge sits flat across both tables then it's good.

My tables were almost 4' each.

[John Gornall]

A machine this size needs a different approach to setup than the typical jointer. Start with a good machinist's level. These are calibrated with lines that show thousandths of inches per foot out of level. Create a scale drawing of the top of the jointer and work across and along each table marking the readings. Then use leveling screws in the feet to get the outfeed table as close to level as you can get. The machine should then be bolted to the floor and possibly have a suitable grout poured under the feet. Grout used for machine bases is a type of concrete that expands a little as it sets whereas most concrete contracts. This will keep the machine in place. Then working with shims in the outfeed bed ways do the final leveling - here you will find out if the table needs any machining. Use your straight edge as well. After the outfeed table is straight, flat and level you can work through the infeed table to get it flat, straight, and level, and finally you can line up the 2 tables. Machines this size and weight take a bit of time and work but if done well they will be good for a long time. Good luck - it will be worth it.

[Matt Meiser]

Maybe have a survey crew come in? :D :D

[lou sansone]

hi rob

my newman 60 has ~ 24" wide tables as well. I called the outfeed table my reference ( it was parallel to the cutter head) and then checked the infeed with a long straight edge. it was fine. Although these machines can be tweeked, do you think you need to? Are you having any problem jointing a board? I am just wondering if you are looking for something that is not really an issue.

best wishes
lou

[Alan Turner]

Rob,
Nice score. John has it right. On my Oliver, I kept moving it around the shop, albeit only short distances. It was never right. I had my dealer come in, after speaking with Rick Fink at Oliver, and after I had decided where it would finally live. The first step is to level the thing. On mine, I needed to level the base as it is a two legged, 4 foot model. Not sure how this applies to a 3 legged machine. After leveling it, then the two table can be set pretty easily. But, if it is out of level, at least on mine, there was no chance of it being right.

Good luck.

[Jim Becker]

Level is important for any number of reasons, but one of them is merely that cast iron bends. Really, it does! (I learned that quite clearly when setting up my Stubby...until the base was level, the spindle and tailstock would not exactly mate up) Getting the machine level means that the weight and stress is evenly distributed.

[Rob Will]

I think I'll round up a machinist's level.
Also, I forgot about my 78" aluminum level......err, straight edge....that might help to get "close".

Lou,
The jointer got banged around pretty hard during shipment. I'm just checking to see if it has any serious problems. I've fixed all the cosmetic stuff and ordered a few knurled knobs to replace the broken ones. This thing sounds sooooo deep........it has that distinctive "I'm not from Home Depot" sound.


Rob

[lou sansone]

one of the nice things about the three toed jointers is that they are always sitting equally on all three legs. you would have to have one heck of a tilted floor before that was not the case. It is not clear to me when folks use the term " leveling" what they really mean. If you are saying that in the case of a 4 legged machine, that it needs to be shimmed in such a way that each leg is indeed carrying its intended weight. I would say that makes perfect sense. If you are saying that for a machine to work properly and to correctly joint a board that the machine's tables must be level, then I disagree. All that is needed for a jointer to joint properly is the tables to be coplanar to each other and to be parallel to the cutter head. If the machine was bolted to a substantial foundation that could be articulated into a vertical position, the jointer would still operate as it is intended to ( provided that gravity did not distort the machine).

lou

[John Gornall]

Correct - the machine doesn't need to be level. But "level" is a good baseline for aligning the machine. If the outfeed table, the cutter head, and the infeed table are level within a few thou both across the machine and along the machine then it's simple to raise or lower each until coplanar.

It's been a few years since I was on the front lines doing this kind of machine setup but here's the routine We used:

The floor would be laid out with center lines for position.

The bolt pattern for the machine's feet or baseplates was laid out.

The floor was drilled for anchor bolts

Machine placed in postion

Leveling screws placed through the machine feet or baseplates and grouted or epoxied into the floor. These screws had washers and bolts below the machine foot and above.

Using the bolts below the foot the machine was leveled about 1 inch above the floor. Each machine has an appropriate element for leveling. The bolts above the feet were then torqued and the leveling was checked.

A form was built on the floor around each foot or the whole machine baseplate and grout was poured to support the machine's weight.

Then the machine went through final alignment of it's own elements based on the intial leveling.

In the case of this big jointer I would use the above procedure and the initial leveling would be across the cutter head having checked the the bearings and shaft are good. Along the machine I would level the out feed table. Leveling is particularly easy with a 3 legged machine. Then after the grout was strong I would level the outfeed table and then bring it in alignment with the cutter head. Finally I would do the same with the infeed table.

A good machinist's level about 18 inches long is a precision tool and suitable to this job.

[Bill Simmeth]

Lou, I'm with you. There's a very big difference between setting-up a three-toed jointer like you, Rob and I have versus a twin-pedestal jointer like Alan has. Completely different animals.

[John Gornall]

Building or machine setup it's usual to start with "level".

But to simplify lets forget level - the machine is placed on the floor - any floor.

A machist's level is a precision measuring tool it can measure any angle (use it with a sine bar for example) but we won't use it to measure any angle or to "level" anything, we'll just use it as a base measurement.

The tool is placed across the cutter head and a reading is taken. Then the tool is slid sideways a few inches and placed across either the infeed or the outfeed table of the jointer. If the readings are not the same the table and the cutter head are not coplaner and need adjustment.

Place the tool across the far end of the outfeed table and take a reading. Then place the tool across the other end of the outfeed table and take a reading. If they are different the table is twisted.

Place the tool along the center line of the outfeed table and take a reading. Repeat for the infeed table. If the reading are not the same the tables are not coplanar and some shimming will be needed.

Just shim until the tool reads the same for both readings.

Then align to the other table and cutter head with a straight edge.

I would take a machinist's level when I did the initial inspection of the machine. Just a few quick measurements all over the tables would tell me a lot about the machine and would make the decision to purchase for me.

[Rob Will]

John,
What would be a good length of machinist's level to buy?
8" or 12"?

Rob

[Reg Mitchell]

rob if memory serves me right those can get pretty pricie.
reg

[Rob Will]

rob if memory serves me right those can get pretty pricie.
reg

I think ENCO has a 12" import for about $125. The brand name item is $500 +

Rob

[Reg Mitchell]

i would think the ENCO brand would be pretty good Rob. I get sorta warm around th neck about import things though. Not knocking them but its just a peve of mine that I won't buy them if it is a few dollar more made in America and try to keep a job here. Might find one on the bay at a good price they have many machinest tools and can get some good deals at times. I get mics and a few other machinest tools fo my machine shop there
Reg :D

[lou sansone]

starrett 15" unit @ ebay Item number: 250042815402http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/globalAssets/rtCurve.gifhttp://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gif

lufkin Item number: 250044623674

12" starrett Item number: 300042168921

search under level

best wishes
lou

[Rick Lizek]

John,
What would be a good length of machinist's level to buy?
8" or 12"?

Rob
I've been setting up machinery professionally for 20 years and while I do have a machinists level I wouldn't even bring it out for a tripod jointer. A 6' machinist straight edge is my main tool along with a set of feeler gauges. I certainly wouldn't even bolt the jointer to the floor. In 35 years of woodworking I can only think of one machine that was bolted to the floor (a drill press) and that only lasted a few weeks before it was permanently unbolted. This includes moulders, straight line ripsaws, double end tenoners, etc. We did bolt the Taylor clamp rack down. I do use the machinist level for Oliver and such type jointers with a double pedestal base. I also have a special indicator base for setting machines. Northfield sells special indicator sets for setting up woodworking machines but mine does the work of the three that Northfield sells.

[Ted Miller]

I am with Rick on this one, even in the days of my smaller 8" jointers weighing in at 500 lbs I did not bolt them down, now using 10 and 12" jointers weighing in over 1000 lbs hell nothing moves these guys, my old machinist level was the best thing my dad gave me for setting up my shop tools...

[lou sansone]

I agree with rick as well.