Joint Question

[Jerry Solomon]

I'm building an A&C plate rack. The upper cross piece has to be joined to vertical pieces on both sides. The cross piece is 2-1/4" wide. I have a DW682 biscuit joiner. The smallest slot it cuts is for a "0" biscuit. When I test cut the "0" slot it is 2-1/4" wide. I'm a little nervous about seeing the edge of the slot if I'm a little off center. The other options I see are: (1) dowels, (2) FF biscuits (maybe), (3) loose tenons,
(4) pocket screws.

At present I don't have a biscuit joiner capable of cutting FF slots. I also don't have a pocket screw jig (maybe it would be a good excuse to buy one). Seems that dowels might be the simplest solutions although I have never had good experiences with using dowels in the past. I'm looking for advice - what do you think?

[Ted Shrader]

Jerry -

As I started reading through your post, I was thinking FF biscuits. But wait, your can't do that with the DeWalt. Have you thought about a stopped dado or sliding dovetail? Next best would be dowels.

You can get the dowel centering markers (or whatever they are called). Drill the holes in the center of the shelf, put in the centering markers, put the board in place and tap it to mark the sides for the mating holes.

Good luck,
Ted

[Lee Schierer]

I'm not sure I cleary understand your problem, but what about using screws in recessed holes and filling the hole with a plug. With a little care selecting the grain for the plug and making sure it is oriented correctly when installed, it will be pretty near invisible.

[Steven Wilson]

How about a mortise and tenon joint?

[Jerry Solomon]

Lee - The screws would work. The vertical rails are 2-3/4" wide so I would have to either use pretty long screws and/or use a deep counterbore - maybe a 3" screw with a 1" counterbore would allow the screw to penetrate the horizontal member about 1-1/4". This together with glue would probably produce a reasonably strong joint.

Steve - I've already cut the horizontal piece to length so I couldn't use a standard M&T. I could use a loose tenon and one possibility might be something like a beadlock. I have a hollow chisel mortiser but I don't know how easy it will be to cut a mortise in the end of a narrow board almost 30" long.

Ted - I was experimenting with my biscuit joiner. I found that by setting it on the "0" depth setting and by shimming the machine slightly away from the edge of the board I can reduce the width of the slot it cuts. I then took a "0" biscuit (I don't have any FF's) and cut it down substantially and was able to fit it in the narrow slot. This might be a solution also.

Thanks for sharing your ideas.

[Steve Jenkins]

Rather than centering your biscuit slot just set it back from the front so it doesn't show through and trim off the part of the biscuit that sticks out the back after it is glued together. I'm assuming that it goes against a wall. Steve

[Todd Burch]

Steve, exactly what I was thinking. Purposefully cut the slot towards the back. You could use a #20 then if you wanted. Saw off all that sticks out and move on to the next project. ;)

Todd.

[Jerry Solomon]

Steve - I'm not understanding your suggestion. This is a T-joint where a 3/4" thick x 3-1/2" wide vertical piece connects with a 3/4" thick x 2-1/4" wide horizontal piece - a butt joint where a rail and stile connect. Obviously, the vertical piece is 29" long so there's no problem with the length of the biscuit slot there; however, the 2-1/4" wide horizontal member presents the problem. My biscuit joiner cuts a 2-1/4" wide slot even when set for "0" biscuits.

[Steve Hepditch]

Jerry,
Couple suggestions: For A&C accuracy you could fake through mortises. I saw this done on a tavern table that looked great. Basically you cut a mortise on the outside of the joint, screw into your rail through the bottom of the mortise, then fill the mortise with a square plug that stands proud of the outside of the stile. It will appear as though you've created a through mortise. Just make sure to orient the grain properly (end grain showing) so it appears to be part of the rail. This will allow you to use the pieces you've already cut, as they'll be the right length.

Your other option is something you've already stumbled upon. If you shim the fence of your biscuit joiner, you'll create more shallow grooves. I believe if you shim it with 1/4 hardboard, you'll get a FF-sized slot from the 0 setting.

Of course, the loose tenons will work also. I think all of these options will be strong enough for a plate rack, but if I were using FF biscuits, I might consider doubling up on them, depending on how much weight you think the rack will see. Some of that china gets mighty heavy...

Steve

[Jerry Solomon]

Steve - The fake through mortise is something that hadn't occurred to me and would look nice. Thanks for the followup.

[John Wadsworth]

Jerry,

I hate to ask the obvious question, but what's wrong with a real mortise-and-tenon? That's the classic solution and not hard to execute in a number of different ways, depending on your tools and skills.

For technique, you can do the mortises with a mortising attachment, a router, or mortising chisel (with or without boring out most of the waste first); the tenons with a backsaw, table saw, or bandsaw.

For design, you can make the tenons blind, through, pegged, or even tusked.

Good luck with 'em, however you go...

John W.

[Jerry Solomon]

John - At this point, I have already cut the horizontal part to finished length which prevents me from making a standard M&T joint. The plan that I am using showed a biscuit joint but the biscuit slot is almost too wide for one of the members even at the "0" setting. If I want to use a real M&T joint, I'd have to pitch the part and make another.

[Byron Trantham]

How about pocket holes? Thier strong and easy to install. Just a thought.