Big Bandsaw Decision

[Gregg Feldstone]

Hey Creekers, my first posting here.
I am returning my Minimax MM16. I am torn between a Laguna LT16HD, LT 18 and Agazzani B-20. I have not had the opportunity to see any of these in person. I live near Corpus Christi, TX. Firstly......anyone out there in Corpus, San Antonio, Austin or the Hill Country who has one of these and wouldn't mind showing it off?
The price and spec. differences are not that important to me. I am conerned that I might not be able to put a carbide blade on the 16" Laguna. Is an 18" wheel big enough for carbides?
Do the ceramic guides on the Lagunas create a high pitched whine with the saw on? The video states to touch the blade with the guides.
I've seen pro and con about Laguna customer and tech services but nothing about Eagle tools either way. Any comments? General opinions on which might be a better saw? I simply want the best performing bandsaw, period!!

[Jim Becker]

Do tell why you are returning the MM16...it often is considered the best performing machine in its class. Did you have problems? Were they not resolved?

[Gregg Feldstone]

First, I do't have my money back yet, so I won't say much right now about what was wrong....but it should not be the way it is.
I was also considering the Bridgewood PBS 440 unitl someone at Wilke was very rude to me. I had called once before and was basically told they don't have time for phone calls and to come to their store in person.
I can't give my money to a company that doesn't care or is not set up to take care of long distance customers!

Which saw do you have, Jim?
Any comments on some of the specifics I mentioned?

[Brian Hale]

Wilke was rude??? That's far and away the opposite of my experience with them. I suggest you call and talk to Curt (owner) and i assure you your opinion will change.

As for which BS to get, if you're not happy with the MM16 you most likely won't like the Laguna saws either as they are a lighter weight saw than the MM. The PBS series are a VERY nice saw with (according to Fine Working) the stiffest frame in that price range. Curt at Wilke will be glad to tell you all about who makes the frames for which saw and the good and bad of each.

Brian :)

[Mark Singer]

Gregg,
I have had the Aggazani 20" for many years and it is flawless. Smooth vibration free. Jesse at Eagle is always available and does a great job pre tuning the saws...It resaws well and I have used it for very fine work like architectural models, etc...

[Matt Meiser]

I'll have to agree with both Brian and Mark. Wilke was great to deal with when I bought my jointer. I mostly dealt with Curt (didn't realize he owned the place) and then I called back to talk to someone at customer service about some bolts that were too short. They were all very polite. Yours is the first negative post I've ever seen about them--I suggest giving them another chance.

And I had a chance to try Mark's bandsaw when I visited him last year. It was an amazing saw, especially compare to my 14" saw!

[nic obie]

If you didn't like the MiniMax machine and you think Wilke's people are rude, I'd advise you to stay away from Laguna. I have a feeling you wouldn't be happy. ;)

Aggazini makes a very good saw, you might try them.

[Craig Stueve]

I have yet to hear from anyone who has used one, but the new Steel City looks like quite a saw. I have seen the 18" model in person and it apears to be very well built indeed. The 20" is $1849.00 until the end of the year. That seems very tempting at that price.

Here is the link for you. http://www.steelcitytoolworks.com/products_tools.cfm?section=2&category=2&tool=50300

Craig

[Doug Shepard]

I have yet to hear from anyone who has used one, but the new Steel City looks like quite a saw. I have seen the 18" model in person and it apears to be very well built indeed. The 20" is $1849.00 until the end of the year. That seems very tempting at that price.

Here is the link for you. http://www.steelcitytoolworks.com/products_tools.cfm?section=2&category=2&tool=50300

Craig

I also haven't used one (or even seen one close up). There's a thread on the Knots Forum from a member named SARGEgrinder47 that might be worth looking at. He's got a pretty thorough writeup on those from a close inspection of their machines at a WW show.

[Dennis Peacock]

Gregg,

I have a Laguna LT16 and while it's been a very good saw for me? I'd go with the Aggazini saw. Very good machine with a very good reputation of the company.

[Gary Herrmann]

Perhaps Minimax will swap the saw for another. Based on my experience and those of others here, Minimax is right at the top of the list in terms of customer service.

Admittedly, I haven't had any problems with my MM16, but I was also very impressed with the customer service before during and after the sale.

[Jim Becker]

Which saw do you have, Jim?

Gregg, I own an MM16 (older model; 12" re-saw height w/ 3.8hp motor) and it's been a pleasure to have in my shop. In my experience, MM makes good on problems. They did so on another MM machine I had some electrical issues with early-on.

[Jim Young]

You know my vote, Agazzani.

[Phil Pritchard]

Gregg

When it comes to using carbide tipped or stellite tipped blades bigger is bettwer - there's no substitute for size. A 20in saw is more readily able to tension a 3/4in TCT blade that a 16in saw (you should always use a blade one size down from the maximum wheel size in any case). A TCT blade like the Lenox Trimaster series requires 25,000 lbs of tension to cut at it's best. A 16in saw is probably incapable of toppinmg 20,000lbs whilst a 14in Delta struggles to even reach 15,000 lbs. Can't advise on the saws mentioned, but my big saw is an Agazanni Cosma 700 (28in) chosen over the Meber, ACM (Laguna), Steton and Centauro (MM/SCM). It has been absolutely faultless over the past almost 5 years run with 1-1/4in and 3/4in TCT blades in the main

Phil

[Mark Singer]

a little inspiration....

http://www.eagle-tools.com/Media/resaw.jpg

[nic obie]

A 20" band saw built on the same size and thickness frame as a 16" saw won't be able to reach the same blade tension. My older style MM16 has no trouble hitting 25k psi on a 1" band measuring it with a well cared for Iturra tension gage.

And just to stir things up a bit, I never de-tension either. :D I check the tension before removing the blade too and it it is ALWAYS more than what it was before I installed it. So much for myth about tweeking the frame. ;)

[Phil Pritchard]

A 16in machine normally has narrower wheels than a 20in machine and would have lighter tension springs, ergo the 20in machine is generally able to handle a wider blade under correct tension. I'd also hazard a guess that the 20in machine has a larger table than the 16incher which can be a help on larger pieces. My feeling about 16in machines is that most are considerably lighter than the 20in machines on the market. But there is actually another reason for going to a larger wheel size - namely that as a blade moves round the wheels the blade is constantly bent and straightened, so many times every minute. The blade weld, the weakest point in any blade, is being bent back and forth each time it passes over a wheel and can harden and fracture over time. With a smaller machine, i.e. shorter blade and greater degree of bending, blade failure will occur earlier because of the amount of bending it is subjected to. I used to have a 14in machine and the 28incher. Never had a blade failure on the 28in machine - I wear out the blades first - the 14in machine was about a quarter as likely to break a blade as wear it out in my experience. It may not be significant but the fact that old-fashioned woodworking shops rarely seemed to use bandsaws smaller than 24in is perhaps telling - and they didn't see a narrow bandsaw (i.e. a machine incapable of running at least a 2in wide blade) as a resaw, so 24in machines didn't enormous height beneath the guides (typically 10 to 12 inches).

Phil

[Alan Turner]

I have the 20" Aggi from Jesse at Eagle, and he will get my vote early and often. I run a 1" carbide on the Aggi, and have sourced other blades from him as well for other saws.

[Bob Aquino]

I have yet to hear from anyone who has used one, but the new Steel City looks like quite a saw. I have seen the 18" model in person and it apears to be very well built indeed. The 20" is $1849.00 until the end of the year. That seems very tempting at that price.

Here is the link for you. http://www.steelcitytoolworks.com/products_tools.cfm?section=2&category=2&tool=50300

Craig


That saw is very similar to my 18" delta that never got all that much critical acclaim. It seems to have some improved features such as a foot brake and some much better guides. They moved the tensioning lever from the top down to the bottom of the upper wheel housing and reworked the way the motor mounts to the side, but it is still the same frame and wheel assemblies. I've always thought the saw was a good design but hampered by lousy guides, looks like they read my mind when they built this one.

[Mike Wilkins]

Proud owner of a LT18 since 2001. This the model before the ceramic guides, Baldor motor, and 18" resaw height became standard. I switched to the ceramic guides later. Have not heard any funny sounds coming from the guides; just some light sparks which is normal when metal contacts ceramic.
There is no concern with causing any problems with the sparks, even though it can un-nerve some folks.
As for the Resaw King carbide blades; Laguna makes them for their LT14 so there should be no problem with using them on the LT16.
As you stated, try to find an owner in your area that would be willing to show off his/her machine for you. Contact Laguna to see if they can put you in touch with one. Any of the machines you listed should serve you well.
Good luck and watch those fingers.

[Gregg Feldstone]

Thanks to everyone for your replies and suggestions. I
am close to making a decision but will hopefully be looking at some saws in person soon. I am sure the manufacturers read this forum.

Can somene also recommend some good bandsaw blades in between a carbide and plain carbon steel?
I know about timberwolf, woodslicers, Lenox bimetal.
Has anyone heard of someting called "gold series"?
Thanks!!