Bandsaw Questions

[Andy Haney]

I'm considering a bandsaw...never have owned one. I think the use would mostly be to re-saw for small projects like boxes. I'll likely be in the 14" range. I've been reading different material, and have a few questions.

1) Is it important to have 2 speeds? If so, why?
2) While the reviews seem to indicate CI wheels are better, is there enough difference to consider that a major factor?
3) One gimic appears to be orientation of the thrust bearing (flat or on edge). Does it matter?
4) Are cool blocks "better" than bearings? If so, are after market blocks best?
5) Should I favor steel or CI frame?
6) If I add riser blocks to achieve greater re-saw capacity, do I introduce "flex" in the frame that could be a problem?

I'm also interested in any other information/bias you wish to offer. Thanks for any help.

Andy Haney

[Bill Boehme]

1) Is it important to have 2 speeds? If so, why?
No, one is all that is needed and it should be 3000 to 4000 FPM (correction). See the Suffolk Machinery site for more information.


2) While the reviews seem to indicate CI wheels are better, is there enough difference to consider that a major factor?
Not on a 14" saw. Much more important is balance and roundness. Out of balance CI wheels are much worse than out of balance aluminum wheels. Except on the higher end machines, you will hardly ever get a machine with perfectly balanced wheels. The good news is that you can balance them yourself fairly easily.


3) One gimic appears to be orientation of the thrust bearing (flat or on edge). Does it matter?
I have machines with both and it is mostly a gimmick although "on-edge" may have a slight "edge" over flat. (sorry about the pun -- OK, I'm not sorry)


4) Are cool blocks "better" than bearings? If so, are after market blocks best?
"Cool Blocks" is a registered trademark so I suppose that they are equal except that sometimes a dealer will advertise "cool blocks" and you won't find any documentation with the saw to indicate they are genuine. The real Cool Blocks are graphite impregnated phenolic material and have a gray color. There other competing materials like ceramic on the market, but I personally prefer Cool Blocks. You can actually make your own guide blocks out of a hard oily wood like teak or cocobolo and they work very well -- maybe as good as anything else.


5) Should I favor steel or CI frame?
This is very dependent on the saw. Cheaper saws have lighter frames. The high-end Delta saw has the heaviest and most rigid CI frame and the lower-cost Jet has a lightweight CI frame. On the tubular steel saws, the total weight is a fairly good gauge of how rigid the frame is, but it is best to get your hands on one and see if the upper wheel assembly can be flexed.


6) If I add riser blocks to achieve greater re-saw capacity, do I introduce "flex" in the frame that could be a problem?
A little additional flex, but not nearly as significant as how much flex is in the basic saw.

Additional things to consider would be the sturdiness of the table and the sturdiness of the upper blade guide assembly. Some of the TS frame saws seem to have a lot of flex in the upper guide assembly and in the table. If you really need the riser block (this implies a CI saw, obviously), that means you will be resawing wood up to 12" and for that I would recommend a motor of 1.5 HP.

Bill

[Chris Jenkins]

Andy,

Let me start off by saying I'm just a hobbiest and I'll answer your questions from my experiance. People who use a BS daily would know this better than I.

1. I have had only one saw with multiple speeds and I never used it. Truely you only need one speed to work wood, all you need to do then is adjust your feed rate depending on the wood you use. Now if you plan on cutting metals and wood, then you need two speeds. I know Wilton makes a BS that has good speed ratios for metal and wood, but have not cut any wood on it, so I couldn't give you any performance advice there.

2. I had a Grizzly 18" BS with AL wheels and I didn't notice a large difference, though I did not do any major 12" resawing, where blade tension and stressing is more critical. I think the most important issue when it comes to your wheels is to have them balanced and set them in the same plane.

3. Once again I think this is a question based on use. I had Euro style on one saw and have traditonal on another. I believe the theory is that by having a bearing that is rotating with the motion of the blade you are making more contact with the bearing surface rather than just that small point of contact where bearing is only making a tagental contact point. I like the bearings that are oriented correctly so I can put more thrust on that bearing when roughing stuff through at fast speeds.

4. I've never used cool blocks on my saw, though I have used them. One thing I like about them is that they are great for small (1/8") blades and doing real scrolly work. This way you can acutally make contact between the block and the blades (more of a pinch technique). By doing this you can twist the blade harder and the blocks will give it more support than a bearing can. Though like I said that seems to be only a big factor when doing real scrolly work with small blades, otherwise I would prefer a good bearing on all blades 1/2" and over.

5. I have had both, though I have not had a steel frame in a 14" model. The 14" steel frames seem to be a newer hybrid to the WW scene. The idea behind a steel frame is that it is a beefier (different) frame style that will support higher tensions for BS blades, specifically needed for resawing machines (18" machines, IE longer blades). I can say I have resawed on both and have no issues. Though I do NOT use my BS as any type of resaw mill! The few 14" steel frames that I have seen do not follow the traditional full length tapered design of that frame style of a true 18", so I can't say if these new hybrids are better in my experiance. IMHO, i feel the hybrid 14" BS's are just the same as the Hybrid TS's - nothing more than show. You can't compete a true cabinet style trunnion against that of a contractors trunnion just because you put a sheetmetal cabinet around it in the TS world. Follow my drift? Marketing, as far as I am concerned.

6. Logically you will introduce more flex into the system by putting in a riser block. Think about it. If you raise the frame and you tension the blade, you have added a larger area to flex over. Conversly - If you raise the frame you have also given the frame more area to distribute the force over. I would say without doing some true froce analysis on the design it would be hard pressed to say how much more the frame is flexing to the point that it is bad for the user. I have heard good things about changing the tension spring in the back though. Check out Cater products for one of these. I believe it goes for about $20 at Woodcraft.

Additional Info. I downgraded from a 18" to a 14" - not something you see in the WW World, everyone wants to upgrade in this tool consuming hobby. The 14" foot print is much smaller and can be easily added to a mobile base if shop space is a concern. My resaw capacity is only 6", but unless you are book matching wide panels do you really need 12" of resaw? You mentioned boxes. Most boxes are about 6 tall and that includes the top and foot (depending on design) so you would likely resaw 4 - 5.5". Just some food for thought.

Chris

[Erik C. Hammarlund]

Speaking from recent personal experience:

Buy used. I picked up a saw which is exactly what you would want (or better) for under $300. It's a 14" but will take a 3" blade and resaw up to 12".

If you're not in a hurry and you stay on top of Craiglist and your local want ads, you may be able to get a very good deal.

[Robert MacKinnon]

No, one is all that is needed and it should be 3000 to 4000 RPM. See the Suffolk Machinery site for more information.

Oopsie Bill, I think you meant 3000-4000 surface feet per minute (SFPM), not RPM. I wouldn't want to be anywhere near a bandsaw whose wheels are running at that speed; talk about catastrophic failure!!!

[Eddie Darby]

I'm considering a bandsaw...never have owned one. I think the use would mostly be to re-saw for small projects like boxes. I'll likely be in the 14" range. I've been reading different material, and have a few questions.

The top 14" bandsaw right now IMHO is the 14" Laguna bandsaw.

http://www.lagunatools.com/lt14.htm

A close second would be the Delta 14" bandsaw.

http://www.deltamachinery.com/index.asp?e=136&p=6157

if you start with examining these two you should be able to know what will fit your needs best.

Speed is usually an issue with metal cutting bandsaws. The important thing with a bandsaw is the feed rate. The two speeds just allow you to go a wee bit faster in your feed rate.

Stiff frames are a must for controlled cuts.

Most ball bearing guides do not give full support to the blade, and that is a guides primary reason for existing, so Cool Blocks allow a larger surface of support or contact area.

Cast iron wheels have more mass and so they don't slow down in the cut, but keep their momentum up. Balance and roundness are very important, as are the number of spokes and the steardiness of the ball bearing in the wheels.

I have a Delta 14" bandsaw and I had to make some adjustments to it to get it cutting great, so I would highly recommend that you get a good book written by an expert on the subject. I was sure glad I did.

I run the low tension Swedish silicon steel blades in my bandsaw, such as the Timber Wolf blades. I have a 14" riser and have not had any problems, but I run at maximum a 1/2" thick 3 tpi blade, as this saw really can't properly tension a 3/4" blade.

I enjoyed the tweeking process on my 14" bandsaw, but if I were buying today I would favour the Laguna, since it is my understanding that they perform better out of the box. Perhaps there is someone reading this that has the Laguna who can add to this?

[Andy Fox]

Andy,

I'll share my recent bandsaw purchase experience....

Earlier this year, I purchased a Craftsman 14" 1 HP steel frame, iron wheels, bandsaw for around $400. This saw is similar, but differs in many ways, to the Rikon, and is likely produced by the same factory. It ran smooth and precise with little tweaking (if you don't count having to tap all 9 holes in the table, but others have had better luck). The guides could be tweaked to run nearly square with the blade, but the upper guide deflected easily compared to cast iron saws. The bearing guides were somewhat hard to adjust properly, and the thrust bearings failed (spraying grease) after only a few hours of use. I could've replaced them with better ones from a bearing dealer, but I opted to return the saw for a refund.

I then purchased the Delta X5 14" 1.5 HP cast iron, well-balanced aluminum wheels, bandsaw with riser block for around $1000 (including riser). (BTW, $100 rebate promised by the local woodworking machinery dealer salesperson so far proves to be an empty one, as the dealer and Delta both decline to pay up and point fingers at each other. My latest "assignment" from the dealer is to write Delta a letter about the issue. :rolleyes: ) I haven't finished tweaking this saw yet. I need to order some things from Iturra Design (get their free catalog before making a decision) to get the guides to run anywhere close to parallel with the blade, and there's significantly more vibration than the Craftsman, although I could probably resolve this with an upgraded aftermarket link belt. The guides (blocks) are much more solid and much easier to adjust, mostly due to Delta's solid design. I'm happy with the Delta after trying both saws. If I had an unlimited budget, I'd probably get one of the highly regarded European saws. An old Delta 14" bandsaw would probably be a better deal than a new Delta.

1) Is it important to have 2 speeds? If so, why?
No

2) While the reviews seem to indicate CI wheels are better, is there enough difference to consider that a major factor?
No, just make sure they're well-balanced (learn how to check this).

3) One gimic appears to be orientation of the thrust bearing (flat or on edge). Does it matter?
No--both have their advantages

4) Are cool blocks "better" than bearings? If so, are after market blocks best?
You definitely want to be able to use blocks if you want to try something like putting a 1/8" blade on the saw. Bearings might be a slight improvement if you're only going to be resawing with a 1/2" or larger blade.

5) Should I favor steel or CI frame?
Ignore the material, and get the best bandsaw for your needs.

6) If I add riser blocks to achieve greater re-saw capacity, do I introduce "flex" in the frame that could be a problem?
Some saws have a sturdier frame. I think the Iturra catalog says that the made in the USA Delta model has the stiffest frame, and the older the frame, the better. There might be an issue with some imports at high tension.

[Erik C. Hammarlund]

If you're in Kansas, i'd get on this pretty fast (http://kansascity.craigslist.org/tls/216610962.html), if it's what I think it is.

Really,when there is this type (http://kansascity.craigslist.org/tls/208446754.html) of stuff available used, why buy new? (http://kansascity.craigslist.org/search/tls?query=band%20saw)

[Jude Tuliszewski]

You will get many view points on your questions. IMO, it comes down to what you are willing to spend, and what you might do in the future. If you have a tendency to expand your usage of a tool after getting comfortable with it, then I would say get a larger saw to start with, 17 or 18 inch, even if it means saving a little longer. As the saying goes, a bigger saw can do what a little saw can do and a lot more, but a little saw can not do all that a big saw can do, something to that effect. That’s what I did and I am glad I did, the trade off of a more finicky set up on skinny blades, to me, is worth it for the added power and larger blades that can be used. If you have no desire to expand your work scope then I would say that a 14 will be a very good fit. Having said that, 14 saw- cool blocks, CI edges out aluminum wheels, CI frames have worked great for lots of years, something else to think about CI trunion for the table top, and blade release. Larger saws, double BB guides, with thrust bearing having outside dia. riding the blade, CI wheels, CI trunion, tension release, other factors will be a matter of money and preference, and by all means if you can find one used in good condition that you will be happy with go with it, beats paying new prices. JMHO, good luck with the search.

[John Bailey]

I'm far from an expert, but I did a lot of research before buying my bandsaw. I've been very happy with it with no problems. I don't have the riser and don't plan on getting one. I ended up with a 1948 Delta 14" model. It passed the nickel test with no set-up after transporting it on it's back 480 mi. in my pick-up. I've been resawing mahogany and teak up to 5" and couldn't be happier, and that's with a 3/4 hp. motor. This has been done with a 3/16 blade and a 1/2" blade. When I realized I couldn't get a larger new saw, I went with Iturra's advice and got the Delta, the older the better. It doesn't have all the modern niceties, but it works, and works well.

1) Is it important to have 2 speeds? If so, why?
I don't see the need as long as you're woodworking. If you plan to do any work with metal, it would be an issue.

2) While the reviews seem to indicate CI wheels are better, is there enough difference to consider that a major factor?
Some of the older Delta's had cast iron, mine has cast aluminum. I didn't think it made enough difference in this size saw to pass it up.

3) One gimic appears to be orientation of the thrust bearing (flat or on edge). Does it matter?
No--both have their advantages

4) Are cool blocks "better" than bearings? If so, are after market blocks best?
Mine has blocks, not sure if you call them "cool blocks" or not. All I can tell you is they work great.

5) Should I favor steel or CI frame?
From everything I read, the cast iron frame is better due to the dampening properties of cast iron and the ability to add a riser for high resaw. However, I don't think I would pass up a bandsaw because it were steel and some steel saws, like the Laguna, has 12" resaw.

6) If I add riser blocks to achieve greater re-saw capacity, do I introduce "flex" in the frame that could be a problem?
My opinion is that, given a wide blade, there would be. That's why I got the sturdier old Delta model and why I don't plan on adding the riser. Many folks, however, have had good results resawing 12" material. There is a good discourse on this in the Iturra Catalogue.

No matter what you get, I would suggest you get the Iturra Designs catalogue. It reads more like a textbook than a catalogue. (Iturra Designs - 888-722-7078, they don't have a web presence.)

[Andy Haney]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Probably will have the opportunity to shop some today...might even look at that used one if they still have it.

Andy