saw scott phillips at wood craft today- delta to be made in U.S.A.

[tim mathis]

hi just got back from wood craft at their annual woodworking extravaganza . scott phillips gave many demonstrations and he said that last week he was in a meeting with delta boss's , they said that a 9% price increase is coming next week. he also said that the reason is that delta is moving their production back to U.S.A. . he also said that their is a standing order for 450 new machinists in tennessee.i took this as all delta products will be made in U.S.A.. i for one will pay 9% more for made in the U.S.A..( this is the first i have heard of this. if this is old news please disregaurd .) my tool decisions (brand) may have gotten easier. have a great weekend tim m. in centerville , ohio.

[Brian Clevenger]

If that does become the case, look for some good deals on JET tools in my area.

[Tom Pritchard]

Tim, that's great news! I would gladly pay the extra percentage if I could purchase a "Made in USA" tool! Thanks for passing the information along, it was news to me!

[Greg Peterson]

Made In The USA. Isn't that a Springsteen song?

Music to my ears. 9%? Worth it, especially if the quality goes up.

I'll have to wait and see now. This would definitely alter my future TS and BS purchases.

[Chris Barton]

Interesting, lots to digest in this post. I wonder if anyone down at the Delta plant in Jackson, TN have heard this. Since Delta is owned by Black & Decker and everything they produce is made over seas, I wonder why they are making an about face on this. If 450 people hit the ground in Jackson right now they couldn't find a place to live...

[Bob Marino]

Tim,

If this is true, that really is great news. I hope it to be so.

Bob

[Gary Keedwell]

That would be great news. Now if they can find hundreds of machinists in Tennessee that can fit the bill. ( only kidding!!!)

Gary K.

[John Miliunas]

Yup, as long as the quality comes with the "Made In USA" sticker, it's well worth the 9%! :D I wonder how long it will be before those machines start hitting the market, though? Fortunately, I'm pretty well set for main machines. .......Well, except that nice 3hp shaper Delta makes would look nice in here! :D :cool:

[Reg Mitchell]

tennessee :eek: ....I think that some of the companys are finally realizing that they are not being supported since they have moved over seas but I migh be wrong too. I do know that the quality we have with things made elsewhere is not very good and we have many problems trying to get pars to work properly....But its great news
Reg

[Dave Sweeney]

I for one hope this is true however there is a difference between "Made in the USA" and "Assembled in the USA". Assembled in the USA would not be worth an additional 9% added cost to me.

[Chris Barton]

I am going to wait to see the proof in this rumor. Delta closed it's main USA tool plant in MS a few years back. I can't imagine how bringing their production facilities will do what they really want, to make more profits. I own Delta equipment (all made over younder) and it is very good gear and I have no complaints. Lastly, I don't think they could talk 450 machinists into moving to Jackson, plus there wouldn't be a place for them to live. Paint me a skeptic...

[Jim DeLaney]

For me, this is one of those "I won't believe it until I actually see it" sort of situations. Once offshore, I can't imagine any company trying to economically re-establish a manufacturing base here. Presuming they've kept the original building(s) etc., they'll still have astronomical startup costs, in addition to much higher labor costs, as well as greater potential liability exposure.

DeWalt bought them a year or so ago, and it's already well known that quality has suffered, as has customer service. DeWalt already has many products that compete directly with the Delta line - miter saws, hybrid saw, etc., so I can't imagine them trying to 'improve' Delta to compete with the established products.

Some thing just sound too good to be true...

[David Rose]

Hmmm... I wonder...

Since we sold our cast iron, then our steel, now our copper to other countries are we seeing buy back costs too high? As firearm shooters may have noticed, or will soon, ammo/bullet/brass costs have gone up about 30% in the last year and expected to climb more. This is 3x what we have seen in any of the 35 years that we have been in business. The more we dug into the "why" of our wholesale cost increases, the more we found that we did not own the metals. This has been distressing to me, the one who receives orders and changes prices.

I'm not sure how producing the product in country will be effected. We still have to buy back our metals.

And I am sad to say that "made is USA" does not mean quality control anymore. Many imports have fewer quality control issues than our own products.

I will gladly pay 9% more for equal quality USA products to imports. We must support our workers to maintain a "position" in the world. I hope that we can recoup a superior position. I don't think this is a political statement, but if Ken thinks it is, delete it. I will not sweat it.

David

[Mark Rios]

Could I get a clarification please on this subject? My new (used) Unisaw is supposed to be about 4 years old, according to the old owner. The base cabinet has a sticker on it that says, "Proudly made in the USA". Does this mean that it is actually only assembled in the USA? If not, would someone be so kind as to explain exactly what it does mean?

My question isn't from a political standpoint (I want a good quality product. If it's actually "MADE" in the USA, so much the better), I am just wondering if I'm using a real American made product or one from another country.

Thanks very much for your input.

[David Rose]

Maybe someone else knows the current requirements to being labelled "made in US". But the last I heard it was 0% parts manufactured in the US, and assembly required in the US. At least that is what we are being told about guns. It has gradually dropped over the past few years.

David

[Travis Porter]

I bought a DJ-20 about 3 years ago because I was under the impression it was made in the USA. I could have bought a taiwan model for a good deal less, but I went ahead and bought the DJ-20 because it was supporting USA. When it arrived, the top assembly had stamped on it made in Taiwan. The stamped steel base was the only part made in USA.

On my 10 year old bandsaw every part of it but the wheel covers and frame is made outside of the USA including the thrust bearings which I recently changed.

I think the US Department of Commerce reviewed what "Made in USA" meant awhile back. I believe I saw something on 60 minutes or some show about it. IIRC, I believe a certain percentage of it has to be manufactured in the US, not all of it.

[Alan DuBoff]

Wow, that's actually great news. I'm a big advocate of "onshoring", opposed to the "offshoring" falacy that has been happening to save money. Good to see anyone bringing manufacturing back onshore, IMO. Kudos to Delta, if this is so.:cool:

[Ed Blough]

As I understand it Delta was all made in the USA until about 10 years ago. Then they started manufacturing some parts outside the country.
Then they made complete machines outside the country having two lines of tools.
One line was USA made and the other was not.
The only difference between the two lines was part number and the sticker. Then the out country line started to get more features and such.
Then they made the x5 line which I think started out as all American but evolved like everything else to out of the country.

There was a Delta/Porter Cable store in our town and I know they had 14 inch band saws which were all american made sitting beside 14 inch band saws that were manufactured out of the country. The out of country units had more features and a cheaper prices. They had different part numbers and the in country one all had the sticker.

I also know there were all american unisaws and foreign saws. I think the American ones were labeled Unisaw and the foreign were Professional Table saws but that might have been the contractor saw line. I don't remember.

If Delta starts manufacturing again in the US that will definitely effect my decisions to buy.

[Allen Bookout]

If Delta starts manufacturing again in the US that will definitely effect my decisions to buy.

Same here!!!!! I am proud to set my bandsaw where the "Proudly Made in the USA" is clearly visible.

[Art Mulder]

I for one hope this is true however there is a difference between "Made in the USA" and "Assembled in the USA". Assembled in the USA would not be worth an additional 9% added cost to me.

And again, there is a difference between "Assembled" and "Finished". (not sure if Finished is the right word.)

What I mean, is buying the castings elsewhere, but doing the grinding/polishing here, or whatever is needed to make the surfaces dead flat and so on.

[Andy Hoyt]

Mystery Solved!

This development must explain why tod has been absent - he's been busy putting the final touches on this (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=30002).

[Jerry Olexa]

If that does become the case, look for some good deals on JET tools in my area.

They already have some pretty aggressive prices in their fall/winter promo (on their website). I saved +$200 on my new jointer.

Good news from Delta. I hope its true...

[John Callahan]

If your saw was made in 2002 I'm fairly certain it was made and not just assembled in Tupelo, Mississippi and it came with a US built motor (probrably a Marathon). In 2003 parent company Pentair decided to close the Tupelo plant and move production to the Porter Cable plant in Jackson, Tennesee. In 2004 Pentair sold the Tool Group (Delta, Porter Cable, DeVilbiss, Oldham among others) to Black and Decker. Current Unis say, iirc, "Assembled in the USA from domestic and foreign components" and use a made in Brazil WEG motor. Rumor has it that the castings may be imported too. Moving production back to Jackson and the US would be a good thing if it were true but seeing Black & Decker is the parent company I'm a bit skeptical. B&D is noted (notorious?) for shaving production costs wherever possible and moving production back to the US goes against that. Most if not all Porter Cable production was moved to the DeWalt plant in Mexico.

[Eric Commarato]

I wonder if Delta will re-open their plant in Tupelo, MS?

[Matt Meiser]

I hope with all my heart that this story is true and I'm not questioning Tim at all. BUT, this story sounds too good to be true. 450 machinists? If they were going to bring back manufacturing to the US, I would assume that most of the laborers would be doing assembly. Modern production facilities use automated maching centers to do the work--not machinists. This sounds like a story that's gained embellishment as it was passed on.

[John Weber]

As already stated, Delta still "makes" several tools in Tennessee. If you have questions about particular tools you can call Delta and they can address those. Delta has had a Brazil connection for year, since they owned part of Invicta at one time (I believe), they also import machines and components from Asia. I'm not sure what the plans are, but I'm sure they are still figuring out who they want to be since the B&D buy out. Pentair wasn't doing Delta any favors, so B&D isn't a terrible thing, just different. For the most part the basic machines are still excellent. There has been a number of new low end imported offerings, but that's a much different market then what many of us are in. I doubt we will return to the days where all the "better" stuff was made in the US, but having the option is a nice option, and one that I look for when I can.

[Mark Rios]

Okay, I went out and checked the identification plates (stickers).

The motor sticker has DELTA on the top of the sticker. then all the motor info and then, about two thirds of the way down it says,
Delta International
Machinery Corp.
Pittsburgh, PA

Then toward the bottom of the sticker it says, Made by Marathon Electric Mfg.
Made in the USA

The sticker on the side of the cabinet just says Delta (Machinery or Mfg or something like that), Jackson TN. at the top and Made in the USA at the bottom (along with some other info items like the catalog number, etc).

Does this make sense to you folks? Sound pretty close to John C.'s post.


BTW, thanks very much for all the great info.

[Randal Stevenson]

Maybe someone else knows the current requirements to being labelled "made in US". But the last I heard it was 0% parts manufactured in the US, and assembly required in the US. At least that is what we are being told about guns. It has gradually dropped over the past few years.

David
While I don't know the current requirements, I know things changed AFTER a lawsuit between the FTC, and the Stanley tool group (Stanley, Husky, Mac, ETC). They were bringing in tools, CLEARLY labeled on their shipping boxes as made in (China, Taiwan, etc) and their resale packaging and advertising said made in the USA.

[Bill White]

THey could always come back to Tupelo and reopen the plant here. I would be glad to see that.
Bill

[Dennis Peacock]

I for one would buy a USA Made Delta machine in a heartbeat. That's one reason why my next drum sander is 100% USA Made...and I know that for sure as I will drive to the plant and pick it up next year. :)

[Dennis Peacock]

I have contacted Delta and am waiting for a return response. Hey, I even pointed them to this thread. ;) :rolleyes: :D

[Chuck Harris]

I'm not suprised if Delta decides to move back to the US. Delta was always a high end tool like Powermatic. Unisaws and better Delta jointers, planers and shapers are not the type of tool that gets sold in your local big box retailer. A whil back I was cruising through the local Lowes. I walked past the planers when a price tag caught my eye. It was the Delta 2 speed 13" for $199. I pounced. I thought it was a mistake since that planer normally sells for $439. Lowes was dumping them since they didn't sell. The high end tool store in town never had a problem with the 439 price but Lowes can't move that level of tool.

Delta most ikley has figured out why we'll turn our nose up at a $45 Stanley plane and buy a Veritas for $200 or a Lie Neilsen for $300. For a company like B&D there is only one reason to buy a company like Delta. thats to get to that customer that is willing to walk by that $549 TS and plunk down $2000 for quality. For that customer price is not the factor, quality and reputation are what matters. If a company does anything that hurts that rep or quality like moving offshore look out. B&D wouldn't be the first company to learn this the hard way. Look at Grizzly they generally have good price points but if they didn't have a certain quality level they wouldn't be able to sell tool 1. Not to mention how they would get savaged in this forum. I for one hope they do return to the US. It might cause other high end companies to rethink that move to a non US plant.

[Jeffrey Makiel]

One repeating theme I’ve noted in this thread is that Delta will slide down the hill if owned by B&D.

It should be noted that B&D produced high quality industrial tools as well as those cheap power tools. Many of my portable power tools are B&D industrial quality that were purchased in the 1980s. After years of abuse, they still run fine.

However, it seems that folks mostly remember, or were exposed to, those cheap electric drills that the local bank use to give away when you opened up a checking account, or the cheap jigsaw from Channel Lumber or Rickels Home Center.

I believe B&D recognized that their name was known more for their lower line of power tools. Around 1990, B&D (which I believe was owned by Simplex) acquired the DeWalt name from the defunct US based DeWalt stationary tool company. They re-baded all their industrial grade tools and gave them a yellow case. They also began developing and expanding their line of industrial tools under the DeWalt name. Even today, I believe DeWalt makes some good stuff which ranks up there with Bosch, Porter Cable and Milwaukee. B&D also had interests in the German tools called Elu which were high quality tools like the Elu routers and biscuit joiners.

I don’t think it matters who owns Delta. If anything, the B&D folks have been around for a while, know marketing and how to re-invent themselves. But it is certainly interesting if they move production back to the US. It certainly would be contrary to the B&D perception that many folks seem to have of them.

cheers, Jeff :)

[Kirk Poore]

One repeating theme I’ve noted in this thread is that Delta will slide down the hill if owned by B&D.

It should be noted that B&D produced high quality industrial tools as well as those cheap power tools. Many of my portable power tools are B&D industrial quality that were purchased in the 1980s. After years of abuse, they still run fine.
...

I believe B&D recognized that their name was known more for their lower line of power tools. Around 1990, B&D (which I believe was owned by Simplex) acquired the DeWalt name from the defunct US based DeWalt stationary tool company. They re-baded all their industrial grade tools and gave them a yellow case. They also began developing and expanding their line of industrial tools under the DeWalt name. Even today, I believe DeWalt makes some good stuff which ranks up there with Bosch, Porter Cable and Milwaukee. B&D also had interests in the German tools called Elu which were high quality tools like the Elu routers and biscuit joiners.

I don’t think it matters who owns Delta. If anything, the B&D folks have been around for a while, know marketing and how to re-invent themselves. But it is certainly interesting if they move production back to the US. It certainly would be contrary to the B&D perception that many folks seem to have of them.

cheers, Jeff :)

Jeff:

I agree that B&D is a good marketing company, and they know the value of having a premium brand. I certainly hope that Delta is that brand. I will wait and see whether they preserve the quality and move the manufacturing (or at least the assembly) back to the US. I think they tried to have a high-end brand with DeWalt, and realized that they couldn't reach the high end of the stationary tool market, so they went looking to buy somebody.

I have one item to add though. Black & Decker bought DeWalt way back in 1960. I have a 1963 Dewalt RAS that mentions Black & Decker in the manual. According to the OWWM site, DeWalt sold off their big radial arm saws in 1989, where they eventually became the core of The Original Saw Company and are still manufactured in Iowa.

Kirk

[Ted Jay]

Why wouldn't they want to open a plant here in the good ol' USA...
They can bring in all their own foreign workers, they'll get free paid medical from... you and me. Heck, they'll probably get a free car and gas, and not have to take a driving test when they get here..... and then still charge you that extra upcharge because it say's MADE IN THE USA, and right next to it in real small letters "by foriegn workers".

I think I'm also in the "I'll believe it when I see it crowd".

[Dave Lehnert]

Sounds good but how in the world could they bring things back over here and pay American workers with only a 9% price increase?

[Kirk (KC) Constable]

What I find curious is the number of people that say they will buy Delta SIMPLY because it would be made in the USA...again.

Fool me once, shame on you...

KC

[Jeffrey Makiel]

Tim's original post mentions the need for 450 machinists if Delta comes back to the USA. I not sure if there are even 450 machinists left in any one state!

I use to be in heavy fabrication in the shipbuilding industry. That's gone. What happened to all the skilled workers?...I have no idea. There were about 5,000 tradesmen, but that was 15 years ago.

Now I'm involved in the construction of research devices which require highly machined parts. Getting bidders to fabricate the parts is very difficult. I've been told that the hiring and retention of journeyman machinists for in-house work is very difficult. I also hear similar complaints from the vendors we contract with.

I agree with the other posters above that moving any manufacturing back to the USA is difficult. We have decayed our skilled workforce and changed our educational prorities. Not to even speak of other issues as higher standards for the environment, workplace conditions, etc.

The biggest issue I think that Delta will face is the increasing quality of Chinese manufacturing. Also, it appears that many of the Chinese built machines being offered today are fairly innovative in design, and not just clones of old designs as was the past.

It's a tall order. We'll see...Jeff :)

[Nick Clayton]

Of course, they could always produce machines in the Marshall Islands with insignificant labor costs and call it Made in the USA.....................:(

[Allen Bookout]

Why wouldn't they want to open a plant here in the good ol' USA...
They can bring in all their own foreign workers, they'll get free paid medical from... you and me. Heck, they'll probably get a free car and gas, and not have to take a driving test when they get here..... and then still charge you that extra upcharge because it say's MADE IN THE USA, and right next to it in real small letters "by foriegn workers".

I think I'm also in the "I'll believe it when I see it crowd".

HOW TRUE. What a great response.