Saw alignment problem???

[Jim Hinze]

I recently purchased a used Grizz 1023, we replaced the arbor bearings and belts, cleaned & Lubed the insides...

I aligned miter slot to blade within .001, fence toed out at .003 (excaliber fence)... but with my systematic combo blade I'm getting signifigant X patterns when ripping. When using a forest WW2, they are signifigantly less but still somewhat visible, same for my freud TK blades.

Arbor runout measured at the flange is about .001, but telesopes to between .004 - .006 at the very outer rim of a blade (I *think* that's ok and within specs...)

I did some debugging today and found 2 things:

1. The blade was about 5 degrees out of perpendicular with the table.
2. with the blade at full height and a dial caliper touching a master plate on the arbor, lowering the blade causes the dial caliper to go from 0 to .70 (the blade moves .30 closer to the fence).

I obviously fixed #1 :), but am not sure if #2 is a problem or not because the .30 is even across the width of the master plate and/or a blade.

I have not retried a cut yet but will do so shortly and try and post a picture or two.

One other point of note, the rip result is almost perfect from a dimension standpoint .. meaning if I take a 3' board and rip it to 2", measuring with dial calipers, the board is within .003 throughout the entire length measuring about at about 6 points.

So it boils down to cut quality, not accuracy....

Any tips, suggestions, iders?

[Mike Canaris]

Sounds like balde flutter..have you used a full kerf blade...?

[Joe Jensen]

2. with the blade at full height and a dial caliper touching a master plate on the arbor, lowering the blade causes the dial caliper to go from 0 to .70 (the blade moves .30 closer to the fence).

but am not sure if #2 is a problem or not because the .30 is even across the width of the master plate and/or a blade.

How new is the saw? I'm pretty certain that your .030" (I assume that's what you've measured) problem is not adjustable on most saws. I think this error has to be controlled when the mechanism is machined. With my SawStop they call that a "heel" adjustment. I think .030" is quite a lot and unless there is a way to shim it you will have trouble. You could adjust the saw with the blade set for your most common blade height, and then know that it will be different when you use a different blade height. The problem will manifest itself as more tearout on the top and bottom of the cut. this is something I'd definitely be on the phone with Grizzly..joe

[Phil Thien]

It is normal for the trunion to distort slightly when the blade raising mechanism is raised to the top. For the purposes of adjustment, you should do you measuring with the blade a half-crank or so from the top.

Thanks,
Phil

[Jim Hinze]

Sounds like balde flutter..have you used a full kerf blade...?

Looks like it a bit too... The systematic and forrest are both full kerf, best cut with the WW2.

[Jim Hinze]

Saw is about 10 years old or so..

I got another tip from my club's site that said the arbor bracket may not be parallel to the table top and could possibly shim there.

I'm going to test cut quality as it stands now, post a pic and if it's still not up to par, I'll pull the top off and take a look. Perhaps there's some dirt caught where the arbor bracket mounts pushing it slightly out??


How new is the saw? I'm pretty certain that your .030" (I assume that's what you've measured) problem is not adjustable on most saws. I think this error has to be controlled when the mechanism is machined. With my SawStop they call that a "heel" adjustment. I think .030" is quite a lot and unless there is a way to shim it you will have trouble. You could adjust the saw with the blade set for your most common blade height, and then know that it will be different when you use a different blade height. The problem will manifest itself as more tearout on the top and bottom of the cut. this is something I'd definitely be on the phone with Grizzly..joe

[Jim Hinze]

It is normal for the trunion to distort slightly when the blade raising mechanism is raised to the top. For the purposes of adjustment, you should do you measuring with the blade a half-crank or so from the top.

Thanks,
Phil

Thanks Phil... I figured there'd be some, but .3? If the cut quality was good, I'd probably leave it, but that's really what started the questions.

[Jim Hinze]

Ok, here's the piece (shaded w/pencil) from the right of the blade:

http://www.hinzewoodcreations.com/wood/cut_quality/DSC00208.JPG

Same piece, further down the board, no shading:

http://www.hinzewoodcreations.com/wood/cut_quality/DSC00209.JPG

Piece from left side of blade (cutoff):

http://www.hinzewoodcreations.com/wood/cut_quality/DSC00210.JPG

another view of cutoff:

http://www.hinzewoodcreations.com/wood/cut_quality/DSC00211.JPG

[Phil Thien]

As a test, maybe clamp a wider piece to your miter gauge and cross-cut this using your right-hand miter slot. If the patten persists, then you might have a vibration or instability problem in your arbor. If the cut is smooth, then I'm guesing either (1) The wood is releasing tension when cut and rubbing against the blade--try cutting some plywood, (2) You are applying inadequate pressure of the workpiece against the fence--try standing to the right of the fence and pulling the workpiece against the fence as you cut, or (3) Your fence maybe is not adequately clamped.

Let us know what you find!

[Joe Jensen]

It is normal for the trunion to distort slightly when the blade raising mechanism is raised to the top. For the purposes of adjustment, you should do you measuring with the blade a half-crank or so from the top.

Thanks,
Phil

I think Phil makes a point I missed. All saws will move a little when pushed tight to the stop, either top stop, or the 45 or 90 degree stops. I'd check this too.

If you aren't at the stop, then I'd pull the top and inspect. I assume the saw has not always done this, or is this saw new to you?..joe

[Jim Hinze]

Phil & Joe...

Thanks again for responding with very helpfull advice.

I've found 3 things that were contributing:

1. Like an idiot, I never checked the arbor flange. It had point of it that were covered with resin and dust. I cleaned that very well.

2. The splitter was not quite aligned properly causing the work piece to be pulled slightly to the left (engaging the rear teeth in the cut).

3. The fence was not adjusted as I thought. It was toed in .003 toward the blade, not away (had to take a remedial cource in reading a dial caliper :o )

Now I get what I consider a very acceptable cut with little scoring on all blades I have. If I use a fether board to keep the piece tight to the fence (I have a grip-tite) the cut gets better yet.

[Joe Jensen]

Jim, glad to hear that you got it figured out..joe