I need a new TS - hope I don't start something

[Mike Tempel]

Well, I sold my C'man contractors table saw. Couldn't pass up the offer :cool: . Now I am in need of a new saw. I typically do 90% of my WW'ing in the winter months due to the oppressive heat here in SE Texas and I have vacation coming for just that purpose at the end of November. I can't wait and I don't want to be caught without one when vacation starts.

I would like to get a cabinet saw, 3HP, left tilt, and single phase 220 is all I can handle. I really would like to get a SawStop :o but the price is more than this hobbyist cares to put out. I am leaning towards a Jet or a Delta, would like at least a 30" fence like a Beismeyer or similar. I would like a 52" fence but just bought a new Goldwing :cool: :cool: and the bike takes up some of my shop space that I am willing to lose for my new ride. Also, I would like to have something that I could possibly get locally but am not totally against the idea of having one shipped. I like to put my hands on what I am buying before I get it home. This pretty well narrows it down to the Jet or Delta or maybe a PM - there is a Rockler and a Woodcraft in Houston where I could purchase from.
I am not interested in Grizzly much but that could be a possibility if all else fails. Nothing personal intended to the Griz owners.

In regards to what I have stated could you please give me some advice and please include all pros/cons on your reasons why. This is important to me so please include it in your response - thanks. I wouldn't mind buying one used but again it would have to be a local purchase and would have to be in really good shape - not a restoring kind of person. Also, I don't really do ebay - never tried it.

Thanks in advance and please don't let this thread turn into a quarrel - not interested in being in a cat fight.

[scott spencer]

The Shop Fox offers a similar saw and similar value as the Griz but with the added benefit of dealer support and longer warranty. Ever considered that one?

[Doug Shepard]

I would go with the new PM2000. The riving knife and the built in casters - plus the color :D - would put that one at the top of my list. I've had a PM66 for about 10 yrs now and have never regretted the purchase, except for not having done it sooner. I only had to set the saw up once. All the adjustments have stayed in the same place. I was also replacing a CMan contractor saw and went for the shorter rail version of the PM66. I think the space footprint in the GaShop was something like 2" longer, but the depth was actually less due to the motor not hanging out the back.

And BTW - you can't start a thread like this without starting something. It goes with the territory.

[Al Willits]

Mike I'll let the experts give ya stats on saws, I'll just say when I looked for my saw I came up with either the Delta Uni, or Powermatic as my first choice, couldn't afford either, so I got the Delta Hybrid and in my short wood working career its worked out well, but I have the 30" version and already wished for the 50".
Anyway you can put a 50" on a mobile base and still have room for the bike?

Quarrel?? Naw, not unless you bring up DC....:D

Not sure how far south you are, but I lived in Harlingen for a couple of years...whew! it does get warm down there..:eek:

Good luck either way..

Al

[Jeff Horton]

(I think) When you get down to brass tacks there is not that much difference betweens the saws. The Sawstop is the only one that is REALLY different. BUT I bet when you get down to comparing the way they cut wood there isn't a dimes worth of differnce in it and any of them.

I just sold my Delta Contractors saw and replaced it with a 1948 Unisaw I restored. And while I love the smoothness of the Unisaw there is not a dimes worth of difference in the quality of the wood coming off the saws and that is the bottom line.

Fences and blades are where the differences really are. Secondly is finding one you like to operate. For example, Handles, control wheels and that sort of thing might make a difference to you. I don't like where the switch is on my Unisaw, I find it awkard to reach compared to my Contractors saw. But it is original and I am not going to move it.

Many people are brand loyal and that's fine. But I prefer to find a tool that fits my style and methods and put brands aside (in most cases).

And as I so often say, don't overlook a used saw. There are tons of Delta Unisaws out there as well as others. These old saws are are just as good as most any new one and can usually be bought for lot less.

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

All the saws mentioned would do you well.

I see two other options.
General, or an older used one, that could need some TLC.

I don't know if you are interested in fixing up a older saw or not, but you could save a lot of money, and end up with a BETTER saw for the money than buying a new one.....?

Just a thought, either way, I'm GREEN with envy, as I don't have access to that kind of saw, nor the room for it.

Cheers!

[Jim O'Dell]

Mike, we have a new General dealer here in the metroplex. It's possible there is one in Houston as well. Maybe do a search for General table saws on Google and get to their web site, then search for local stores. I was really impressed with the Canadian built unit I saw. Note that they have 2 different saws, Canadian built and Aisian built. I will probably have to go with Grizzly due to price, unless I win the lottery...oh do you still have to buy a ticket to win that???:D But there's nothing wrong with you first 2 choices either. Try to look at those and any of the others mentioned here. Look at the trunions and the control placement. If Dust Collection is important, look at the location of the hook up. Right now that is my pet peeve on ALL table saws. If you can't find anything other than the saws at Woodcraft and Rockler, email the other manufactures or online sales representatives and ask if there is someone in your area with a saw model you are interested in. Maybe they could arrange a meeting with that owner where you could see the saw for real, and talk one on one with someone who has used it, and has no stake in what you eventually purchase. Good Luck! The hunt is half the fun!!! Jim.

[John Miliunas]

Mike, if funds are an issue and you wouldn't mind the "non-hands-on" approach, one to very seriously consider is the Bridgewood BW 10LTS. Basically as heavy duty at the PM 66 or General TS650 (all heavier duty trunion frame assemblies than either the Delta or Jet), but within a decent price point. (FWIW, I love my Bridgewood, as does every person I've run into with one!) A bit higher up the price ladder, with awesome features would indeed be the new PM 2000. As stated by Doug, the riving knife and built-in mobility are but two advantages. Additionally, the knife and splitter assemblies are quick, no-tool "on/off" procedures, the stock miter gauge is fantastic and the fit/finish are superb. Just MHO... :) :cool:

[Mike Weaver]

Mike, if funds are an issue and you wouldn't mind the "non-hands-on" approach, one to very seriously consider is the Bridgewood BW 10LTS. Basically as heavy duty at the PM 66 or General TS650 (all heavier duty trunion frame assemblies than either the Delta or Jet), but within a decent price point. (FWIW, I love my Bridgewood, as does every person I've run into with one!) ...

Yes, the Bridgewood has a strong reputation and I would seriously consider it even if I didn't live within a half an hour of Wilke :D

Good luck,
-Mike

[Jim DeLaney]

I've been really happy with my Shop Fox saw. Had it for about five years now, and it's functioned flawlessly. It has all the features you said you want, too.

The dealer I bought mine from had Shop Fox, Delta Unisaw, and Jet saws all sitting side-by-side so I could make direct comparisons. The Shop Fox actually had fit and finish that was equal to the Unisaw, and better than the Jet. "Under the hood," the three saws were so similar that I suspect that most parts would actually interchange.

Great pricing on the Shop Fox. I can't really speak for the warranty, though, since I've never needed to use it. (That's a good thing, isn't it!)

[glenn bradley]

I just picked up a hybrid due to $$$ but, did a lot of looking at CS. The areas where otherwise equal beasts became individuals were:

Table and wing fit and flatness.
Fence (such a short word and soooooo important).
Trunnions (if you get to do a hands on, move 'em back and forth and up and down, alot, don't worry about the salesman thinking your nuts).

Workbench Mag June this year did a 10 CS shootout. Griz 1023 got top value at under $1000, PM2000 and Saw Stop tied at $2200 and $3300 respectivly. You could slap a Bies on any of them if that's your preference (it is mine).

Have fun.

[Joe Jensen]

I a fan of the SawStop, but it your budget doesn't allow, I'd buy a used Unisaw or PM66. I sold my used PM66 recently for $1500 and it was an awesome saw. Built in the US in 1990.

If it were me, I'd look for a very clean used PM66.
Pros:
1) I think the US built saws are superior
2) I love the Biesemeyer fence system
3) I strongly perfer having the saw tilt away from the fence. If you ever need to put a 45 bevel on the sides of wide panels, this is really helpful.
Cons;
1) Need to search for the saw, might take a while
2) It's not shiny new, but this way you won't obsess over the first scratch on the top. These are tools.

[Nancy Laird]

Mike, there are really a lot of differences in table saws, and a lot that most of the "experts" will not talk about.

To begin with you need to know that I make my living recommending and selling and using woodworking machines. That said here is my .02.

First you need to understand why a left tilt table saw was built, and that has nothing to do with safety. The left tilt table saw was invented so that there would not be a lot of tearout on the outside of a mitre cut.

Second, you need a really good fence and a Beismeyer is the original and in my opinion the best.

Third, the real difference is in the way the blade stacks on the arbor of the saw. On a left tilt the blade stacks from the left to the right. That means that when you change the blade from, say, a thin kerf to a regular kerf to a dado blade, that the distance from the right side of the blade to the fence, without moving the fence, changes, meaning that the tape measure is not accurate with different blades. On a right tilt the blade stacks from the right to the left and when changing blades, say, from a thin kerf to a regular kerf to a dado blade the distance from the right side of the blade to the fence, without moving the fence, stays tha same, making the tape measure a useful item.

Fourth, safety on a table saw, or any other piece of equipment, is a matter of the operator, not the machine. My point is that if the operator does something not smart, like trying to rip a warped twisted board then the machine will do somethine stupid like throwing it back at you (generic you). The one thing that I can tell anyone is that if your mind and body are not in the same spot at the same time while doing woodworking you will have an accident.

My perference is a right tilt Delta Unisaw with a Beismeyer fence. I have owned and used mine for 13 years with no problems. trouble, or kickbacks.

If you care to talk to me some more please feel free to PM me.

David

[Jesse Cloud]

Gee Mike, seems like you just can't get an argument started on this:rolleyes: . I agree with the others that any of those saws will do the job for you. Personally, I have a Unisaw and am a happy customer. I have also used the Saw Stop and the PM in classes. I liked them all.

One thing you might try is Craigslist (www.craigslist.org (http://www.craigslist.org)) Its safer than EBay because most of the transactions are local. Just for grins I checked the Houston site and saw a 1962 vintage Unisaw for $800. The idea is that you see something interesting, call the guy up, visit, and make a deal if it looks good. I have bought and sold several things that way and made some friends in the process.

My other advice will be to act soon. Once you get that baby in the shop, you will need some time for assembly, tuning, and jig making before you create serious sawdust.

Good luck on your upgrade and send us pics when it happens!:D :D

[Chuck Harris]

Just a my .02 here

Get yourself some cardboard and cut it to the actual dimensions of the size of the saw your thinking about. Now take that and lay it on the floor of your shop. This will give you a real idea of how it's going to fit in your shop. They tend to look nice in the store but they do take up space in your shop! I have a Delta with the full table and Beismeyer fence. doing this helped me determine if I could fit the bigget table into my shop. Even on wheels these saws aren't that easy to move so keep that in mind as well. One nice feature of the bigger table was being able to mount a router lift into it. Good Luck!

[Reg Mitchell]

Hi Mike. I have a old arn Oliver which I love, but its 3 ph so that takes care of that. Next i also haave a 2 hp 220 General that I got befor the bug bit me on Old Arn and I have cheep access to 3 ph. The General is a very good saw at 2 hp. I would recomend them highly for service and quality. They do make a 3 hp cabinet model that i have read about and had the funds been available at the time would have gotten one. I would up grade the fence to a Bessy and they can be had ar Redmonds in Atlanta for cheep I too would try them for a good used saw as he dose sell them. too bad you don't have 3 ph but you can always buy a converter and they can be had reasonable on ebay at times or I doo know where ther are 2, a 15 hp and a 20 hp, for sell now for $400 and $500.
If you like the thought of that you could have one of these
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d99/male_man/myrtelwoodtbltop091.jpg
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d99/male_man/da03db76.jpg
I spent $1500 on the saw took it apart and painted it and put it back together replaceing the bearing and leeds to the motor. Pennys for parts and works like a horse.
I have no knowledge of the other saw but It really boils down to money space and how often you plan to use the saw. What ever your decision try to get something quality and ward off something you will be sorry you brought home
Reg

[Dick Bringhurst]

I've had a Jet left tilt for seven years now. It's been an excellent trouble free saw. I can recommend it without reservation. Dick B.

[Gary Keedwell]

Hi all,

I have a Unisaw and like it alot but I don't know if I can recommend it because I have never tried any of the saws of the same caliber. When I purchased a precision 4' straight-edge for my jointer and put it on my Unisaw, I was not that happy.

I have heard good things about other saws and am thinking some day about trading mine in for a powermatic. I heard that they grind the surface real fine and flat. In the mean time, I will not be using my straight edge again on the Unisaw. lol

Gary K.

[Doug Shepard]

... A bit higher up the price ladder, with awesome features would indeed be the new PM 2000. As stated by Doug, the riving knife and built-in mobility are but two advantages. Additionally, the knife and splitter assemblies are quick, no-tool "on/off" procedures, the stock miter gauge is fantastic and the fit/finish are superb. Just MHO... :) :cool:

John - you're forgetting the most important point - the mustard yellow coolness factor:D . Reference this thread if you need to refresh your memory.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=26109

[Bruce Page]

Mike, this is probably a repeat answer but I went from a tricked out/upgraded Craftsman to a Unisaw with 50" Beis several years ago. I still smile whenever I push the green button. I have had zero problems with it.

[John Miliunas]

John - you're forgetting the most important point - the mustard yellow coolness factor:D . Reference this thread if you need to refresh your memory.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=26109

OMG... I plum forgot about the "Coolness Factor"! :eek: Sadly, for some of us, time and budgets have overdriven the desire/need for "coolness". However, I'm OK 'cuz I have a rather eclectic taste, so it don't matter if the stuff matches! It would be nice to be cool, though! :D :cool:

(Note to self: Need to remember to take color chart to tool store on next trip!):cool:

[Cecil Arnold]

Mike, when I bought my Jet, about 5-6 years ago, I went in to The Cutting Edge in Houston and asked one of the sales guys there to point out the difference in the Uni and Jet. The price on both saws was the same, so it came down to features. After looking under the hood, so to speak, the Jet was the better buy for me. I won't go into all the differences as there were many, but will mention that the dust port was extra on the Uni, along with better aux table mounting on the Jet. The fence on the Jet is a Bies clone. I would recommend you take a Saturday trip into Houston and do what I did. The guys at The Cutting Edge established a tremendous amount of creditability with me, so much so that I've bought quiet a bit of cast iron from them.