Sears Craftman Miter Saw Accident

[Robert Pickard]

In April 2004, I experienced an unfortunate accident. While cutting crown molding, I noticed the blade and the angle adjust handle were not lined up.

Thinking it was out of the detent, I moved it with my left hand. Suddenly, the handle broke off and my hand went into the blade.

I lost my left index finger. Two additional surgeries removed the index finger to the wrist and 20% of my hand.

I have several power tools, been woodworking for years. Never an accident or failure like this.

Weeks later, I looked at the saw. I found that one of the adjustment handles mount legs (on the underside of the saw) had broken off. The fracture began as a crack and grew until failure.

Engineering analysis revealed two defects with the saw:
1) the cast aluminum base metal was too pores (porosity). Too much air was allowed into the molten metal during casting.
2) The saw's blade guard does not cover enouph of the blade to meet OHSA and import safety standards.

Since 2004, I have contacted Sears and Consumer Protection Agency with this information. I also found that the problem affects more than just my saw.

My saw is a model 315.212.110. In Aug 2005, I located a privately owned Delta saw (113.234.600) that had cracks in the handle mounts. In Jan 2006, I found two saws on display in Sears stores that had similar cracks ( model 315.212.340) The Store managers pulled the saws.

In June 2006 I purchased a new Sears Miter Saw (model 315.212.340) after finding the display likewise cracked.

In Aug 2006, I located a fifth saw in Memphis with cracks in the base.

I have attached a picture of the saw's broken base.

I ask that other members with Sear's or Delta miter saws check the underside of the frame and rotating table for developing cracks arround the front adjustment handle. It could save someone else their fingers.

R. Pickard

[Ken Salisbury]

You are required by the Terms of Service (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/terms.php)to use a real first and last name. Please PM Jackie Outten (http://sawmillcreek.org/private.php?do=newpm&u=6)with that information and she will update your registration.

Thanks in advance.

Ken Salisbury
Your Friendly Moderator

[jeremy levine]

Please post another picture ( better if possible ) of the cracks, I have a sears miter saw and I want to check it.

[Ken Salisbury]

I wonder if the ghost of J. Edgar Hoover posted here if he'd catch flak for not using "John."

Especially if he was posting information about a defect that caused the loss of most of a hand. Sheesh.

OK - I should bend the rules for someone because they got hurt or are new. The rules are the rules regardless of the circumstances. Gimme a break !!

[Art Mulder]

I'm with Jeremy, I can't see the cracks in that first photo. Sorry to hear about your hand. Thanks for posting this warning to other CMS owners!

...art

[Damien Falgoust]

At any rate, Mr. Pickard, thank you for the warning, and I hope your enjoy your time here.

That portion of this post that was not responsive to the thread topic was redacted.

[Rennie Heuer]

In April 2004, I experienced an unfortunate accident. While cutting crown molding, I noticed the blade and the angle adjust handle were not lined up.

Thinking it was out of the detent, I moved it with my left hand. Suddenly, the handle broke off and my hand went into the blade.

I, too, would like to see clearer pictures of the underside as I own a Delta saw and want to check it for this problem.

I'll try to put this in the most understanding way as possible as I keenly remember the blood trail from my dad's basement shop to the kitchen sink the day he lost 2 fingers on his TS - I must ask however - You state that you made the adjustment with your left hand - was this because your right hand was occupied opperating the saw? Were you trying to make this adjustment while the saw was in opperation? It would seem that making any adjustment to a tool while it is running is an invitation to injury.

[Dick Bringhurst]

OK - I should bend the rules for someone because they got hurt or are new. The rules are the rules regardless of the circumstances. Gimme a break !!
Ken, your post was just fine. Keep up the good work. Dick B.

[Matt Warfield]

R,

Sorry for your injury. My eyesight isn't the best either. Any chance on a better picture or link to a higher res picture outside the forum(but not in another forum)?

BTW, my cousin suffered a crippling injury as well. His name is J W Scott and says so on his Birth Certificate. It was somewhat common in the 1920's and 1930's to name kids with a letter instead of a full name. Just some food for thought.

Hope you heal well. All jokes aside, glad it wasn't your thumb.

[Ken Salisbury]

Sorry you feel I was complaining Ken, I was not.

Your call.

just sent you a PM

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

just sent you a PM

and I answered you, I also deleted my posts, I did not mean to offend or get off track.

[Bob Childress]

Now don't everyone get excited. :D But am I the only person who finds this a strange first post? It happened two years ago, why not post it then? And why buy another one if the first one was bad? What's the deal? Just curious about the timing. :)

[Damien Falgoust]

That portion of this post that was not responsive to the thread topic was redacted. And then...

Ken, your post was just fine. Keep up the good work. Dick B. I think you missed some off-topic posts, Ken.

ETA: :)

[Robert Pickard]

Tough group. I had to reduce the quality of the pictures due to the size restriction. At any rate, I have attached two more.

I have several as you can imagine.

I offer your organization this information to alert others of a defect that I have identified on 6 miter saws made by two manufacturers, involving 4 different models.

If you review the Consumer Protection Agency (CPA) web site, you will find several recalls on saws over the years. They include defective miter saw blade guards, saws that throw the blade off due to a defect and table saw fences that had 300 injuries before recalled.

The manufacturer has all the information and all but ignores the accident. The CPA has two additional Craftman miter saw accidents reported. One the handle broke off and a woodworker in GA lost his hand.

I have corrected my full name comment. It's Robert. Sorry if I came in at a bad time and ruffled anyone.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

The xxxxx of it is that if you can't trust the xxxxx metal what can you trust?

Moderator removed profanity - Please refrain from using such language which is a TOS violation

[Tony Falotico]

In June 2006 I purchased a new Sears Miter Saw (model 315.212.340) after finding the display likewise cracked.

Robert, I also question this statement. Unless it was purchased specifically for use in a lawsuit, why in the world did you buy another one especially after finding the display likewise cracked. ??:confused:

[Ben Grunow]

R or Richard- Sorry to hear about your accident. I am a full time carpenter and I cannot imagine that happening.

I am curious though, how did the blade cut you if you were adjusting the saw deck (or was it the bevel angle)? Was your other hand holding the trigger (saw running) while adjusting or was the saw coasting down or did it start on its own?

I know that over the years I have probably adjusted the saw slightly while it was running or coasting down. Make a lot of cuts quickly and you can easily forget to wait for the saw to stop-especially if you are late for Friday (or any other day) canwiches.

Good luck. Ben

Oh and welcome. Do not mind Ken, he is frank and you will come to appreciate his decisiveness over time. Keep hitting hard Ken, I love it!

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Thanks to the Mods for deleting the foul post that was here between Ben Grunow and this post.

Thanks guys!

(I know the rest of this thread is now going to not make much sense, but the post that was here was just wrong, no matter how you come down on the moderation on SMC, we can disagree and we can discuss, even argue, but we need to be civil).

Cheers!

[Mitchell Andrus]

Robert, not to jab sticks in your cage here... and I'm sorry about your accident, but just how does a breaking handle cause your hand to move towards the blade? It looks like the break would cause the handle to drop away from the blade, not towards it.

Did the movement of the breaking part cause your hand to slip off of the handle? Were you pulling up on it or pushing it to one side.

Another example of the need for close inspection of our tools on a regular basis. See my next post.

Mitch

[Al Willits]

Crying shame we can't all be adults here.

Mods have a job to do, when they don't do their job forums become flame fests, I agree with Stu, delete it and if it persists, kick em off.

Al

[Richard Wolf]

Crying shame we can't all be adults here.

Mods have a job to do, when they don't do their job forums become flame fests, I agree with Stu, delete it and if it persists, kick em off.

Al

Al, how do you kick them off? That is someone venting because they are frustrated with the over moderating, and I don't think they are using their real name.
I didn't think guest were allowed to post?

Richard

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

Al, how do you kick them off? That is someone venting because they are frustrated with the over moderating, and I don't think they are using their real name.
I didn't think guest were allowed to post?

Richard

There were a Member a few hours ago, I would guess that they got banned, but the Mods are letting the post stand.

Dunno why........?

[Joe Blankshain]

This kind of behaviour is why we are losing/missing members. On one hand we have individuals that abuse the rules of good conduct and on the other side we have individuals that over compensate and edit based on personal issues rather than intelligence. In case others have not noticed, we are missing some valuable members/contributors! They are some of the reasons why the Creek is what it is and therefore I see a MAJOR issue that needs to be resolved. I hope Keith has the time to "fix the issue or issues" before the forum suffers irreparable damage. Just my opinion.

[Richard Wolf]

There were a Member a few hours ago, I would guess that they got banned, but the Mods are letting the post stand.

Dunno why........?

Why?? I don't understand that.

Richard

[Richard Wolf]

This kind of behaviour is why we are losing/missing members. On one hand we have individuals that abuse the rules of good conduct and on the other side we have individuals that over compensate and edit based on personal issues rather than intelligence. In case others have not noticed, we are missing some valuable members/contributors! They are some of the reasons why the Creek is what it is and therefore I see a MAJOR issue that needs to be resolved. I hope Keith has the time to "fix the issue or issues" before the forum suffers irreparable damage. Just my opinion.

Joe, so is this why we haven't seen Marty or tod?????
Maybe I missed something, but I wouldn't be surprized. Sometimes I just don't catch things that are in front of my face!

Richard

[Al Willits]

Seems when I joined in April it was a bit more civil than now, and I think overcompensating Mods is usually the result of over zealous members.

Seems pretty basic, but I'm sure I'm missing something here.....

Richard, I was assuming the mods might be able to bad by IP maybe?

Not fond of banning, but I sure didn't join to read flaming posts.

Like the Mods have said, play by the rules, doesn't seem that difficult to me.

Maybe I need another cup of coffee....

Al

[Hugh Jaskok]

We all know about the rules that members have to follow, but do the moderators have any rules? I don't think Ken's moderation wasn't very moderate.
My .02

[John Miliunas]

We all know about the rules that members have to follow, but do the moderators have any rules? I don't think Ken's moderation wasn't very moderate.
My .02

Hugh, et all...OK guys/gals. Enough already with the stabs, jabs, vulgarity, inappropriate comments, etc... It's done, it's over and let's move on! It's of zero value to keep hashing it out. :) The "R" has been corrected to "Robert", he is still missing a finger and the "alert" for us to check our own tools is still out there! How about we get back on track with the subject at hand? Thanks guys! :) :cool:

[John D Watson]

Now that we're back, Thanks for the heads-up Robert and sorry about the finger. No better rule than to ensure a machine is stopped before adjustment. Glad to hear your still working in wood.

[J. Scott Chambers]

Thanks for the heads up. I checked mine earlier, it appears there are some stress cracks on the bottom of the base, looks to be from over tightening of some screws.

As a side note, I still don't see how this happened, unless the saw was operating while trying to make adjustments.

[Phil Thien]

Well, although it may not have happened in this case, I have a theory about how this defect could be especially dangerous.

Suppose you are making a cut. Your right hand is holding the workpiece. Your left hand is depressing the blade. However, unbeknownst to you, the saw is no longer locked at 90-degrees because the mechanism is broken. So the saw responds to a slight right-hand force you apply with the downward pressure and cuts into your hand.

Could this happen?

[Ronald Thompson]

It seems there are two issues. A defective product and questionable judgement. Since when do you make adjustments on a tool when it's running. I also don't understand the delayed timing of the post.

[Chris Barton]

OK, I am willing to be politically incorect and call this post what I think it is; BS. First, I have been in medicine for 30 years and the injury that is described in the original post is almost impossible to do (even if you tried). Second, in the description of the injury and the ensuing surgeries, the suggestion is that the dammage was so extensive that both PIP and MCP joints had to be removed. The only way this would have happened would have been for the original injury to become septic or, for the injury to have been "mangling" in nature. I have seen hand injuries like this one but, almost always related to either automated industrial equipment used in an impropper way ("sure, I knew I was supposed to keep my hand out of the chipper shute but, a log got stuck") or by crushing type accidents.

I agree with other posters, I am very suspecious of this post. Also, just for my (our) education, can you show us a picture of your hand now that the injury has healed? I would like a good look at that, not like the first picture which can't be enlarged.

[Phil Thien]

I agree with other posters, I am very suspecious of this post. Also, just for my (our) education, can you show us a picture of your hand now that the injury has healed? I would like a good look at that, not like the first picture which can't be enlarged.

Well, I'm not going to argue w/ a doctor that fixes these types of injuries, but how about this for a scenario:

(1) He is using a miter stand to support long material. (2) He throws a board up there to cut. (3) He is holding the board with this left hand and starts the saw with the right hand. (4) He starts depressing the saw and notices that the handle isn't at 90-degrees. (5) Knowing his workpiece is supported by his miter stand, use uses his left hand to quickly pull the handle back to 90-degrees. (6) Handle is already at 90-degrees, so there is some resistance. (7) He pulls harder, hand slips off, and into blade?

I know, I know, it is all conjecture. But I can really imagine something like this happening. If I try. Now, I don't know why his hand wouldn't have slipped in the direction he was pulling the handle, which should not have been into the spinning blade. Maybe he lost his balance? I donno.

In terms of that sort of accident not being able to cause this sort of injury, I'll have to defer to you, because I am not a doctor.

I don't know what his motives would be to lie. This kind of stuff (postings) wouldn't help a lawsuit, unless he found someone else that reported the exact same type of injury.

I agree that it all sounds strange and time-delayed, but not out of the realm of possibilities.

[Rick Cabot]

I have been following this thread with great interest. As a practicing surgeon for thirty years, I am somewhat confused with the accidents mechanism of injury. In rural Maine we frequently see hand injuries related to both mill and woods accident.
However, I am most concerned about the "tone" of responses to Robert's injury. I don't know his motivation for the initial post. Only he lives in his head. However, isn't it most important that, by his reporting, we learn from his unfortunate experience and perhaps changes some of our own habits.
Look at the picture of his hand and put yourself into that picture for a moment. Yes, woodworking injuries can happen to any of us, no matter how safe our practices are.
I joined this forum for because I remember a post where a members shop burned down. The response by other members was wonderful; donations, tools, and words of sincere support. I think that this is what the majority of SMC members are all about, learning from each other and helping the other guy. We are all on different levels, but members of the same fraternity.
In my opinion, our response to Robert should be more empathetic. Sure we should have questions about the mechanism of his injury otherwise, how can we learn? However, the questions should be addressed with sensitive composition.
I apologize for the long post and for the "sermon", but I feel for Robert and his family and what he has to live with for the rest of his life. What his legal intentions may or not be are really none of my business.

Thanks for allowing me to air my feelings
Rick Cabot
Dover-Foxcoft, Maine

[Alan Simpson]

I have been following this thread with great interest. As a practicing surgeon for thirty years, I am somewhat confused with the accidents mechanism of injury. In rural Maine we frequently see hand injuries related to both mill and woods accident.
However, I am most concerned about the "tone" of responses to Robert's injury. I don't know his motivation for the initial post. Only he lives in his head. However, isn't it most important that, by his reporting, we learn from his unfortunate experience and perhaps changes some of our own habits.
Look at the picture of his hand and put yourself into that picture for a moment. Yes, woodworking injuries can happen to any of us, no matter how safe our practices are.
I joined this forum for because I remember a post where a members shop burned down. The response by other members was wonderful; donations, tools, and words of sincere support. I think that this is what the majority of SMC members are all about, learning from each other and helping the other guy. We are all on different levels, but members of the same fraternity.
In my opinion, our response to Robert should be more empathetic. Sure we should have questions about the mechanism of his injury otherwise, how can we learn? However, the questions should be addressed with sensitive composition.
I apologize for the long post and for the "sermon", but I feel for Robert and his family and what he has to live with for the rest of his life. What his legal intentions may or not be are really none of my business.

Thanks for allowing me to air my feelings
Rick Cabot
Dover-Foxcoft, Maine

Well said Rick. I too am concerned about the overall tone of negativity here at the creek. It has quickly gone from questioning people's names to now questioning their injuries. Somebody actually wanted a better picture as proof??? :(

[Chris Barton]

I don't see this as a "negativity" issue but, rather a veracity issue. Having been here at the creek for over a year I have learned that a few posts (few being the operative term) are "placed" on the forum for reasons we don't clearly understand. I see nothing wrong with asking for details or being skeptical. Additionally, it appears to me that there has been no harsh words or foul exchanges. Are posts only welcome when they are in full agreement with the poster?

[Mark Rios]

Maybe the last sentence of many-a-police/news report was appropriate here?...."Authorities believe alcohol was involved".......


:D :D :D




But at least I was motivated to go check my saws.:confused: ;)

[Mitchell Andrus]

I just don't see how you can get your hand into the blade from there without pulling hard in a strange direction. This is operator error. Also, In the first post, we're told that the handle "broke off".

The photo shows otherwise. The handle might have moved a fraction of an inch. And, it would have moved down, away from the blade, not towards it.

Any time I hear of an accident that I'd like to avoid, I also ask for more information. From a first time poster, I'm very sceptical about what I've read - especially if there is the possiblity of a lawsuit involved.

Mitch

[Ray Bersch]

I don't usually chime in on threads like this - I just listen and learn. The problem here is that there is no real lesson to be learned, other than perhaps keep your hands away from a spinning blade. What was the technique being used that caused the injury when the part failed?? That has been asked several times and the answer could really be telling and instructional. But there has been no answer and I guess suspicions have been raised because there have only been two posts by Robert Picard, the original and an acknowledgment of his name correction - and it has been several days since he started the thread.

As a private pilot for almost 30 years I have learned many a life saving lesson from others who have told their own real life story, warts and all. Often, a common, but incorrect, procedure has led to tragedy and when the issue is revealed it does a great service to all who will listen. In aviation, just as in woodworking, it is often a series of events that eventually lead to tragedy and absent any one event in the series the tragedy would not have happened.

So, speak up Robert, let us in on the details so we can learn from your accident.

Ray Bersch

[Chris Barton]

I have been following this thread with great interest. As a practicing surgeon for thirty years, I am somewhat confused with the accidents mechanism of injury. In rural Maine we frequently see hand injuries related to both mill and woods accident. Thanks for allowing me to air my feelings
Rick Cabot
Dover-Foxcoft, Maine

Hi Rick,

Your post is well taken. I will reserve judgment until further evidence. However, let's do a little "forum-side consult." I have detached the picture of his injury and examined it as best I could using software to enlarge the picture. It looks like in the picture that both index and second finger have been excised leaving the proximal surface of the first and second MCPs intact (original post said only index). Is that what it looks like to you? As a surgeon, without any additional insult to the palmar region, why would this patient need these MCPs removed (as indicated in the original post).

Thanks,

Chris

PS: My CMS is a Ridgid and I carefully inspected it this morning.

[John Miliunas]

Well folks, I'm neither, a doctor nor a surgeon and don't play one on TV! :rolleyes: I'm also not going to get into the semantics of why the original poster started the thread when he did or even why! What I am taking away from this thread are two extremely important issues:

1) Take the time to check equipment you are using. And, quite frankly, I don't care if it's a C-man CMS, a Delta or, as Chris just referred to, a Ridgid. Any and ALL can be subject to a flaw, which in turn, can translate into an injury!

2) Take a moment before operating any of your equipment and do a quick mental overview of safe operating procedures for the specific machine! It's often far too easy to use a machine which we've used hundreds of times before and get lax surrounding the safe use of it! Just because nothing happened before is no assurance that it won't bite you this time. Sure, it may be useful to know how the person was exactly using the piece of equipment when the accident occurred BUT, if we all follow known safety practices, that too becomes a mute issue. Be safe, folks! :) :cool:

[Rick Cabot]

Chris

I think your comments are well taken and are directed toward finding out the cause of the accident so that others do not experience the same fate. As to your question regarding the extent of initial surgical resection, I can only speculate (since I wasn't in the operating room). After the initial injury was acutely explored, there was probably a question regarding viability and reconstruction in an acute surgical hostile surgical environment. Therefore, a watch and wait or "second look" approach was used. The injury itself is anatomically interesting. In my experience, when you see that much damage all consecutive digits are usually lost.
I would also agree with Ray regarding his comments about flying and chain of event consequences. I am also a commercially rated single and multiengine and seaplane pilot and instructor (CFI,II), and have found that unless the initial problem or deviation is corrected immediately and the "chain of events" broken, the accident is going to happen. I am, as I am sure other fellow woodworkers are, quilty of the occassional shortcut". Most of use are lucky and receive only a few dents and scratches. Robert unfortunately was not.
Chris, maybe a survey on accident and "near misses" could be something incorporated into the forum? Might be a great preventive and learning experience for us all.
Regards,
Rick Cabot

[Chris Barton]

I have left this post undisturbed for a while to see if anyone would step forward to provide more information. None has been forthcoming. While some will paint me a skeptic but, this is why a few of us will question such posts. There was a motive here and I don't think any of us really knew what it was. And, the original poster has not posted any additional items since this post. Remember what your parents told you, don't believe everything you read. This applies even more to the internet...

[Lars Thomas]

Chris, I don't think you are the only skeptic around here. To me, this one smelled fishy right out of the gate.

[Jeff Kerr]

As always we get interesting points of view here on SMC. I agree with the post that says we all need to take care of our tools and make sure they are in working order.

I have 2 personal stories. The first was my father. He bought a new table saw, set it all up and began using it. Unfrotunately, the lighting in the shop wasn't that good and he was not familiar at all with that saw since it was day 1. Bottom line. He lost the tip of his index finger because he shut off the saw but it was so quiet he assumed the blade was stopped because he could not see it spinning. He doesn't blame his tool.

Now for me. I picked up a fairly bew 12" compound miter saw at an auction a few months back. This thing looked like it may have been used a couple of times. I got it home and got out my square and checked the fence and blade and table etc. This baby was ready to go. No adjustments needed. So I didn't make any. I used it a couple of times and man was it nice. Then I went to use it one day and I placed the board on it and pulled the trigger. To my horror the saw made the most outrageous and terrible noise I have ever heard. It literally scared the daylights out of me. I let go of the trigger as I ran for my life! (Really:eek: ). Once the blade stopped I went back to look. I was shocked to find the "laser beam" arbor nut on the blade had come loose and the blade was spinning free on the spindle. Had it not been for the blade housing I think it would have flown off.

That is the closest I ever want to get to out of control saw. I don't think it is a defect in the tool per se. But to be honest I am a little gun shy of that saw and have not used it since.

What I do now however is take my time to make sure all the nuts and screws are tight on my stuff before I plug it in.

I feel sorry for the poster that was injured. I wouldn't want to have that happen to any of us. Boy Scout motto sure seems to come in handy in life doesn't it? Be Prepared. ;)

Stay safe.
Jeff

[Frank Fusco]

Like many others, I was very skeptical of the description of the accident. It is very sad when anyone is injured. But how and why his hand was near a running blade when he was the one with control of the on/off switch is a puzzlement. My son is an emergency room physician, he doesn't like me having a workshop. He says that he sees a number of finger amputations per month and every one of the patients say the same thing...."I never do it that way....but just this one time......". Let's be careful out there folks.