I need advice on a fastener option...

[Tim Brooks]

I am building octagonal frames for some offering bags using oak. I need to find a fool proof way to fasten together the pieces which make up the frames. The dimensions for each of the pieces are 3 1/2" long by 1 1/2" tall by 1 1/2" wide and the ends are cut at a 22.5 degree angles.

The easy solution is to glue them together but I want to be sure these things stay together long after they are put into use. With the frame only being 1 1/2" wide could I use a biscuit joiner (I don't own one yet) to accomplish this? I see where the smallest biscuit is 1 3/4 wide. Is there a way to cut the biscuit slot to a custom width and trim down the biscuits to fit?

What other options might I consider?

Thanks so much for the input!

[Dave Richards]

I think I'd use a lap joint which would give you the largest possible face grain joints possible. Just glue 'em together and you're set.

[Tim Brooks]

I think I'd use a lap joint which would give you the largest possible face grain joints possible. Just glue 'em together and you're set.

Define a lap joint, please.

[Scott Loven]

Pocket hole screws? if the inside is not going to show
Spline?
Dowels?
Will it show on the inside or the outside? Do you care?
What is an "offering bag"?
Scott

[Eric McMillan]

If they are only seen from the top, a couple of pocket screws would do the trick. You can plug the holes, if desired, to make a fairly invisible connection.

If you don't want to use pocket screws, a spline in each joint is another very strong option. Make a jig to hold the assembly steady on the point of the corner and run it over a table saw blade. Make a narrow piece of stock that just fits the kerf left by the saw table and glue it in. Trim it after the glue sets and you'll have a strong joint that will last a long time.

[Dave Richards]

Lap joint:

http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/People/Darn/lap.gif

A spline would be another good way and you'd get similar guing surface.

[Tim Brooks]

Pocket hole screws? if the inside is not going to show
Spline?
Dowels?
Will it show on the inside or the outside? Do you care?
What is an "offering bag"?
Scott

An offering bag is the same thing as an offering plate but the bottom is a bag rather than the traditional brass bowls.

The inside will be completely hidden so anything on the inside is an option. I thought about the dowel option but I do not have a drill press so I am concerned that I will not be able to get consistent holes.

[glenn bradley]

A bridle-joint allows greater glue surface and physical strength and it looks good! If you want a no-show joint, you could biscuit or if you don't want to use this as an excuse to buy a PC 557, use captured splines. You could let the splines show too if desired but, if that type of appearance is OK I'd go bridle.

[Scott Loven]

If they are only seen from the top, a couple of pocket screws would do the trick. You can plug the holes, if desired, to make a fairly invisible connection.

If you don't want to use pocket screws, a spline in each joint is another very strong option. Make a jig to hold the assembly steady on the point of the corner and run it over a table saw blade. Make a narrow piece of stock that just fits the kerf left by the saw table and glue it in. Trim it after the glue sets and you'll have a strong joint that will last a long time.
What I had in mind for a spline was to cut a slot perpendicular to the 22.5 angle cut, sorta like a thru biscuit. The cut would be near the inside Angle. You could do one set-up on the table saw for all 16 cuts.
Scott

[Scott Loven]

An offering bag is the same thing as an offering plate but the bottom is a bag rather than the traditional brass bowls.

The inside will be completely hidden so anything on the inside is an option. I thought about the dowel option but I do not have a drill press so I am concerned that I will not be able to get consistent holes.
Any pictures?
How do you secure the bag to the frame?
I assume you will be passing this at church so you will want it to be strong and last a long time. People will pass it hand to hand holding on to one section of the frame with all the weight hanging off of two joints.
http://www.kregtool.com/education_center/index.php#angles

[Tim Brooks]

Any pictures?
How do you secure the bag to the frame?
I assume you will be passing this at church so you will want it to be strong and last a long time. People will pass it hand to hand holding on to one section of the frame with all the weight hanging off of two joints.
http://www.kregtool.com/education_center/index.php#angles

Unfortunately, I'm at work and do not have a picture with me. I will post a picture when I get home from work. It will be some time after 6:00 pm.

[CORY FETZER]

scott i recently made kitchen cupboard door frames with punched tin inside for our kitchen i used but joints in my large picture frame jig and set the biscuit joiner on end to cut the slots and glued in the biscuits then sanded the other half of biscuit flush with the frame

hope this helps

[Don Baer]

Tim,
I agree with Dave on the lap joint. I'f you don't have a good dowling jig then this thread has a good way of doing dowels on a router table.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=44090

[Nancy Laird]

I see where the smallest biscuit is 1 3/4 wide. Is there a way to cut the biscuit slot to a custom width and trim down the biscuits to fit?

There are smaller biscuits--they are called face-frame biscuits or #0 or #00 (I forget which). They will join 1-1/2"-wide face frames--all over my house.

If you go with that option, PM me and let me point you toward a source.

Nancy

[Tim Brooks]

Okay, here are the pictures I promised earlier today. Now that the pieces are cut what are my options?

The pictures from left to right are as follows:

1. Top View
2. Bottom view--the bags will be on a frame which will fit right down in the recess.
3. Tear away view
4. Side profile of a piece which makes up the frame.

[Don Baer]

I just glue it and clamp with something like this.

http://images.rockler.com/rockler/images/33861-01-500.jpg

[Earl Reid]

When I make something like this, I use mini-biscuits, (About 1" )
It should hold a lot of paper money without having to worry about the weight.

Earl:rolleyes:

[Tim Brooks]

When I make something like this, I use mini-biscuits, (About 1" )
It should hold a lot of paper money without having to worry about the weight.

Earl:rolleyes:

There is such a creature (1" biscuit)? And can a standard biscuit joiner make the slots for them or do you have to have a special joiner?

[Earl Reid]

Tim, I got a bag of them at the Columbus WW show several yrs ago, a slot cutterfor the router was included. I don't remember who had them.

Earl

[Doug Shepard]

There is such a creature (1" biscuit)? And can a standard biscuit joiner make the slots for them or do you have to have a special joiner?

Ryobi makes (or made?) a mini-biscuit joiner that does really small ones for stuff like picture frames. I Ryobi doesn't still make it, I think I read somewhere that Craftsman has a similar one. I dont use my Ryobi all that much, but it's darn handy in certain situations.